Bitcoin usage in crime activity. - page 7.

Zilon

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

The problem here is that the system should have some way to fight these criminals because we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking, but the problem is, by solving these problems we should get rid of anonymity which is a pillar for the bitcoin technology, so it can't be done. And this problem might be a big obstacle in mass bitcoin adoption and regulations that are coming.

Anonymity is not a guarantee with Bitcoin transactions. It can still be traced, except mixing services is used but still the final recipient of the said fund can get into trouble because the can decide to check the balance of all the addresses that went into the pool then the wallet with the biggest balance can be suspected and monitored further until it get to CEX where it get converted to fiat.

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So I want to hear your opinion: how to make bitcoin technology "safer" so we could fight a crime committed with crypto and help with bitcoin adoption without taking away the main features of bitcoin like decentralization and anonymity?

Will you agree with me that paper money is the best anonymous currency for illegal transaction because the transaction isn't recorded any where and it is only the accomplice and as well as the perpetrator who knows what went down during the transaction. Bitcoin is like every other currency and everyone uses it how the choose to. Even the money in the bank can still be used for illegal deal so Bitcoin hasn't helped anyone accomplish their illegal works just that the elicit act was done through that medium

Ultegra134

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Cryptocurrencies are being used for criminal activities; that's true. A quick look at the darknet markets is enough, although they may also be used to launder money. However, fiat currencies have been used for ages for the same purposes, and laundering money can be conducted in various ways and probably more effectively than with cryptocurrencies. It's frustrating that a lot of news websites and officials portray them as an issue when they are the minority causing these issues. Criminality and corruption are widespread matters, and cryptocurrencies should be the last to blame.

fuguebtc

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No one can stop criminals from using bitcoin or any other means to carry out their evil deeds. Even if bitcoins are not anonymous or centralized, there is no guarantee criminals will stop using them. Bitcoin is also just an asset, a means, what people use them for, we do not control. Like the government so well controls fiat, why can't they stop criminals from using it? It's people's behavior, you can never stop them. Bitcoin doesn't need to change anything, bitcoin is perfect.

yazher

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Unfortunately, this is one downside of bitcoin but that's not gonna make it pure evil because this kind of scenario is nothing compared to the vast list of Bitcoin's positive effects on people. Because there are still lots of positive things that bitcoins can offer and those things you cannot find in other platforms like banks and any other online payment method. If you look at it more, you will not only find that bitcoin is always the tool for crimes rather you also find other methods that they use to scam and do other bad things. Bitcoins have lots of benefits compared to their harm so it is better to overlook its harm so that we continue to move on.

Nrcewker

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Each and every thing has both good and bad things. If you look at the bad side of the coin, then definitely you will find lot many things to complain. But in the other hand, if you look at the good side of the coin, then Bitcoins have many benefits over the traditional banks and FIAT eco systems. No one really can stop the crimes. If people will stop using Bitcoins for the crimes, then definitely they will find another alternative for it. A criminal won’t stope until he does the crime. So rather than blaming Bitcoins for the crimes, we should take control of the Criminals.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

The problem here is that the system should have some way to fight these criminals because we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking,

The only way to make this possible is to make Bitcoin centralized, but why should Bitcoin be made centralized? Does it mean that if Bitcoin becomes centralized, these problems you mention would be totally eliminated?

Fiat money is used to commit a lot of illegal stuff, and the only way to completely put an end to it is to stop the use of money, which is not possible. Crime will continue to occur with Bitcoin or fiat money, and most of these crimes will be discovered and resolved accordingly, but not even 98% of the crimes committed with fiat are being discovered.

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it's the exact problem why criminals are using it. And it's a pretty big one. I'm not saying that criminals use bitcoin more than fiat, but we all can see that illegal services are widely accepting bitcoin.

Illegal services are accepting Bitcoin as well as fiat, so just accept the fact that most illegal services will be discovered both in bitcoin and fiat, but not all could be discovered. To me, I would just say it's better that way.

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

So I want to hear your opinion: how to make bitcoin technology "safer" so we could fight a crime committed with crypto and help with bitcoin adoption without taking away the main features of bitcoin like decentralization and anonymity?

At this point you cant.

The governments are actively trying to devise methods to track bitcoin and use it for forensic purpose, to catch money launderers and is extrapolated crimes committed with bitcoin as payment method/hackers taking ransom with bitcoin and so on.

But at present we only have to be careful on our own as we have nothing else to protect us with. Maybe in a hundred years the framework of legal and financial systems surrounding bitcoin will improve but that is a long time from now.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: Maus0728 on April 02, 2023, 02:41:54 AM

Regardless of whether criminals use Bitcoin or fiat to facilitate illicit activities under the hood, at the end of the day, they are free to use whatever they want as long as it is convenient for them, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Plus, the notion that "bitcoin is used only for buying illegal shit" is perhaps a clever move of the government to brainwash people. They know that the average person does not bother to do their own due diligence, when in fact using bitcoin is much more unsafe than conducting transactions using fiat.

It's not like nothing we can do, we could actually report some addresses that doing illegal stuff to be aware with them. Much better to get traced but due to its decentralized system it would be hard for them to get caught that's why most of the criminal deeds are also open in Bitcoin. And some scammers who caught some newbies that doesn't have an idea to their crime. It would be hard to retrieve what's loss.

That's the pros and cons of Bitcoin, it give people power to control and decide for themselves wether to win or lose without exposing your identity. However the cons of it is that its also open to illegal activities especially the volatility of it unlike fiat money.

Maus0728

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Regardless of whether criminals use Bitcoin or fiat to facilitate illicit activities under the hood, at the end of the day, they are free to use whatever they want as long as it is convenient for them, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Plus, the notion that "bitcoin is used only for buying illegal shit" is perhaps a clever move of the government to brainwash people. They know that the average person does not bother to do their own due diligence, when in fact using bitcoin is much more unsafe than conducting transactions using fiat. It's all part of the game where blaming bitcoin removes the accusations against scammers and money launderers who use fiat.

Crypt0Gore

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Here are some facts that says otherwise.

•Bitcoin is not anonymous, it is traceable.

•Criminals and illegal entities have been here before the birth of Bitcoin and they have been using Fiat to fund their illicit businesses.

•Even if something better than Bitcoin comes, criminal will still use it to their own advantage because every good thing can be used in bad ways.

•The best fit for illegal activities are privacy coins and mixer services, that's why the government hates mixers more than Bitcoin.

acroman08

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you said it yourself, to solve these problems, anonymity would need to be removed which is the pillar of bitcoin, so it can't be done without compromising it.

we can just accept that bitcoin will be used(whether we like it or not) for illegal activities by criminals just like any currency out there, it may not sound good to say that but, it is what it is.

cabron

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BTC can be traced so thats their sure way to fight criminals using BTC. Its time to update the skills of the police officers on how to trace criminal transactions. Authorities do have databases of criminals qnd usual suspects as well which they could link them and show evidences.

But most probably the 85000 IRS agents that was trained recently is meant for this job.

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

Bitcoin is great in means of anonymous transactions and getting away from the banks and government control, but the problem is, it's the exact problem why criminals are using it. And it's a pretty big one. I'm not saying that criminals use bitcoin more than fiat, but we all can see that illegal services are widely accepting bitcoin.

The problem here is that the system should have some way to fight these criminals because we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking, but the problem is, by solving these problems we should get rid of anonymity which is a pillar for the bitcoin technology, so it can't be done. And this problem might be a big obstacle in mass bitcoin adoption and regulations that are coming.

So I want to hear your opinion: how to make bitcoin technology "safer" so we could fight a crime committed with crypto and help with bitcoin adoption without taking away the main features of bitcoin like decentralization and anonymity?

"A new study by Recorded Future has found that Bitcoin is losing its position as the number one currency on the Darknet markets."
https://cointelegraph.com/news/is-darknet-done-with-bitcoin

As far as I'm concerned, illegal activities move to privacy coins like monero. Bitcoin slowly loses dominance here because it's only a pseudo-anonymous coin. I don't think we should do anything to fight cryminal activities because its not the bitcoin battle and most of it still uses dollars.

bearer company, bearer bonds, and bearer shares, and you can move billions of dollars in illegal money. No one fights it. I don't think we should.

Fullcoinese

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

So I want to hear your opinion: how to make bitcoin technology "safer" so we could fight a crime committed with crypto and help with bitcoin adoption without taking away the main features of bitcoin like decentralization and anonymity?

isn't Fiat also not free from crime? it's even worse than what the media reports about Bitcoin.
say a bribe, an online transaction from a bank account might be detected. but cash transactions for bribes, drug transactions, and other crimes using fiat are still very large.

then, are we going to make rules that will govern Fiat? I don't think so. the same goes for the use of Bitcoins for money laundering. it's not Bitcoin that will be the focus. but it is the bridge between fiat and Bitcoin that must be controlled. therefore KYC solutions on exchanges are indeed quite important. there is no denying it if you want to combat this abuse. and that means it will be difficult to be truly decentralized and remain anonymous. when everyone remains anonymous, even the perpetrators of the crime there will be untraceable.

davis196

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Just because Bitcoin is being used by criminals that doesn't mean that we, the Bitcoiners "should do something about it".
The police and the juridical system must find and punish those criminals. We can't do anything, in order to stop the criminals from using Bitcoin.
Fiat is being used by criminals as well. Do you think that the central bankers around the world care about this fact? Maybe they do, but that's not their main problem. Do you really think that the criminals around the world would ever stop using fiat currencies? I don't think so.
Many criminals and scammers are using gift cards. Do you think that Amazon, Google, Steam and all the other major corporations are going to stop issuing gift cards, just because scammers are using them for criminal activities?

OcTradism

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

Bitcoin is great in means of anonymous transactions and getting away from the banks and government control, but the problem is, it's the exact problem why criminals are using it. And it's a pretty big one. I'm not saying that criminals use bitcoin more than fiat, but we all can see that illegal services are widely accepting bitcoin.

Criminals use all things they can use for their jobs. Fiat currency, drugs, gold, real estates, Bitcoin, cryptocurrency so you can not say Bitcoin is the most favorite tool of criminals for things like money laundering.

Some reports for you
Crypto Mixer Usage Reaches All-time Highs in 2022, With Nation State Actors and Cybercriminals Contributing Significant Volume
Crypto money laundering 2022

Bitcoin is only one of their channels for money laundering.

Money laundering

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Almost all criminal activities yield profits, often in the form of cash, that the criminals then seek to launder through various channels.

You see many channels for it on Europol website.

cryptoaddictchie

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Quote from: Husires on April 01, 2023, 10:55:10 PM

Almost all currencies are misused in one way or another. Centralization here does not mean that currencies will not be misused. Cash is used in most of the drug trade. As for central systems, if we take banks as an example, despite the strict regulations, we note that the banking system is used in money laundering and extensively in illegal activities.

Yes currencies has been misused but I doubt that the government are just ignoring it right? Means they are indeed compromise those illegal people. Comparing to bitcoin and decentralized, its really contradicting the situation. We cant argue with OP since criminals are really taking advantage Satoshi made and that has been seen everywhere. Like the seized of chipmixer, whom discovered been used on laundering.

OP since bitcoin is fully decentralized, I doubt anyone can stop from using that as a means, unless someone regulated a thing concerning that which I think can be implemented on the ongoing space of bitcoin. Maybe for other coin can still be salvage but not in btc.

Husires

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Almost all currencies are misused in one way or another. Centralization here does not mean that currencies will not be misused. Cash is used in most of the drug trade. As for central systems, if we take banks as an example, despite the strict regulations, we note that the banking system is used in money laundering and extensively in illegal activities.

These are a few examples of banking systems in countries that are known to be strict in censorship, let alone in countries whose system was designed mainly to hide money laundering.

Despairo

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Bitcoin was never been anonymous in the first place, it's pseudonymous which mean no one know who's you, but anyone know your address, how much you have transacted and how much your total holdings.

Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking

We? or only you? I don't care if Bitcoin to be associated with drugs, money laundering, sex trafficking etc, as long as I don't use it for bad purpose, there's nothing I should need to worry. Ask yourself, can you make sure and verify if every fiat money you get from banks or other people are clean money which not associated with drugs and sex trafficking?

Money is money, there's no dirty or clean money.

karmamiu

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Ever since bitcoin was first introduced to masses, they are already linked with illegal activities, sometimes it was even said to be the main currency being used in illegal merchants or black market. It was already pretty common since then, and one thing the government did in order to prevent criminals in doing illegal acts such as trafficking and laundering, they introduced the KYC system which is up until now the problem for every person who just wants to do trades peacefully and anonymously.

Even in the real world, there are still illegal activities we keep seeing or hearing on the news daily, while people say that money is the root of all evil, there are people like me who believed that it just an instrument and the people who are doing those illegal activities are the ones evil. Money or even bitcoin only served its purpose of being a currency, coz if money is literally the evil here, all of us would be arrested and be put in trial on the court for using such illegal instrument. In conclusion, until now there is no exact ways and methods to keep bitcoin safe, since privacy and reputation (by reputation I mean, bitcoin's reputation), will never go along together and also impossible to happen.

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