Bitcoin Will Kill The Income Tax - page 44.

n0ne

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Quote from: whizter on January 20, 2017, 04:18:29 PM

Quote from: bitbob82 on January 20, 2017, 03:35:58 PM

Quote from: just_Alice on January 20, 2017, 12:53:50 PM

Quote from: Hydrogen on January 18, 2017, 07:41:18 AM

I wish people wouldn't support taxation of marijuana so strongly.

Do they realize their legalized weed would be much cheaper if it wasn't heavily taxed?

Bitcoin is the same.

I think you misunderstood the topic. It's not about taxation killing Bitcoin but rather the other way around. With Bitcoin it's easy to evade taxation, but since most people don't use it yet it shouldn't be a big problem for the governments, for a while at least.

but i think it is already a problem for the government. because government have to turn bitcoin as legal currency first, and after that they can impost tax on bitcoin, because there is not tax on illegal thing. so if government want to impost tax on bitcoin they have to turn bitcoin as legal currency.

i think it is not such a big problem for the government, if government wants they can turn bitcoin as legal currency, and then they can easily put tax on bitcoin

Its not that easy to make bitcoin a legal currency when the country already have a nationalized currency. Governments can make bitcoin as an currency and based upon the transactions happening with their bank accounts in relative to bitcoin taxation can be done.

hgmichna

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Quote from: bitbob82 on January 20, 2017, 03:35:58 PM

but i think it is already a problem for the government. because government have to turn bitcoin as legal currency first, and after that they can impost tax on bitcoin, because there is not tax on illegal thing. so if government want to impost tax on bitcoin they have to turn bitcoin as legal currency.

There are other ways. Germany, for example, considers bitcoin to be something akin to shares or other things that you can trade, not as a currency.

When you buy and sell bitcoin within less than a year and make a gain, this gain is taxed in Germany. If you make a loss, you also have to declare that, but you can count the loss against future gains. If, for example, you lose €100 in one year and gain €150 in the next, you only pay tax on the €50 total gain.

This is how Germany handles it. I don't know about other countries.

Of course, some people will try to keep their ownership of bitcoins secret, but the choke point is the bitcoin exchange. All exchanges I know are reached by the OECD AEoI/CRS regulation and have to report account information to the home taxman of each customer. Some exchanges may not do that yet, but then they are breaking their own country's law.

This leaves trading on LocalBitcoins.com and on the Mycelium Local Trader, but that is slow, inconvenient, and often costly, not to mention certain risks.

I think it is a good idea to fulfill your tax obligations within reason. The bitcoin hodlers are not affected in Germany, because gains from selling after more than one year are entirely tax-free.

whizter

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Quote from: bitbob82 on January 20, 2017, 03:35:58 PM

Quote from: just_Alice on January 20, 2017, 12:53:50 PM

Quote from: Hydrogen on January 18, 2017, 07:41:18 AM

I wish people wouldn't support taxation of marijuana so strongly.

Do they realize their legalized weed would be much cheaper if it wasn't heavily taxed?

Bitcoin is the same.

I think you misunderstood the topic. It's not about taxation killing Bitcoin but rather the other way around. With Bitcoin it's easy to evade taxation, but since most people don't use it yet it shouldn't be a big problem for the governments, for a while at least.

but i think it is already a problem for the government. because government have to turn bitcoin as legal currency first, and after that they can impost tax on bitcoin, because there is not tax on illegal thing. so if government want to impost tax on bitcoin they have to turn bitcoin as legal currency.

i think it is not such a big problem for the government, if government wants they can turn bitcoin as legal currency, and then they can easily put tax on bitcoin

bitbob82

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Quote from: just_Alice on January 20, 2017, 12:53:50 PM

Quote from: Hydrogen on January 18, 2017, 07:41:18 AM

I wish people wouldn't support taxation of marijuana so strongly.

Do they realize their legalized weed would be much cheaper if it wasn't heavily taxed?

Bitcoin is the same.

I think you misunderstood the topic. It's not about taxation killing Bitcoin but rather the other way around. With Bitcoin it's easy to evade taxation, but since most people don't use it yet it shouldn't be a big problem for the governments, for a while at least.

but i think it is already a problem for the government. because government have to turn bitcoin as legal currency first, and after that they can impost tax on bitcoin, because there is not tax on illegal thing. so if government want to impost tax on bitcoin they have to turn bitcoin as legal currency.

m5city

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bitcoin will not kill anything, but the people who learned from bitcion and chains will make tons things, it will kills things!

just_Alice

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Quote from: Hydrogen on January 18, 2017, 07:41:18 AM

I wish people wouldn't support taxation of marijuana so strongly.

Do they realize their legalized weed would be much cheaper if it wasn't heavily taxed?

Bitcoin is the same.

I think you misunderstood the topic. It's not about taxation killing Bitcoin but rather the other way around. With Bitcoin it's easy to evade taxation, but since most people don't use it yet it shouldn't be a big problem for the governments, for a while at least.

jacafbiz

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There is always a way to evade tax and Bitcoin is one of them, tax is not an issue in country, because people get little back from government so there is no need to do so, unless you want to go for political post.

wxa7115

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Quote from: richardsNY on January 18, 2017, 01:03:29 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on January 18, 2017, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: charmingfreddie on January 17, 2017, 03:30:31 PM

Of course it will kill the income tax especially in the US where taxes are crazy and illegal. It could make the end of the US government and the beginning of high unemployment which will be bad for everybody. There will be a lot of chaos I think.

The taxes are even higher in Europe than in the U.S. so bitcoin could benefit more to those that live in places where there are even higher taxes than the norm, the problem is the EU has already noticed this and are trying to crack down bitcoin users and their stored coins.

I think at this point the only way of getting to know who owns what in Bitcoin, is when they start forcing exchanges to release user information. Only then governments can actually find people with large amounts of coins that try to hide it from their local tax agency. It's the big fishes that they are after. I just hope exchanges will refuse these requests but I don't think they have much chances of winning against the governments.

You are right, but while they are after the big fish, these kind of announcements are also a way to scare small holders into compliance since they have no way to hire lawyers or accountants to fight against the tax agencies.

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richardsNY

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Quote from: karawantbtc on January 18, 2017, 01:34:32 PM

Quote from: richardsNY on January 18, 2017, 01:03:29 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on January 18, 2017, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: charmingfreddie on January 17, 2017, 03:30:31 PM

Of course it will kill the income tax especially in the US where taxes are crazy and illegal. It could make the end of the US government and the beginning of high unemployment which will be bad for everybody. There will be a lot of chaos I think.

The taxes are even higher in Europe than in the U.S. so bitcoin could benefit more to those that live in places where there are even higher taxes than the norm, the problem is the EU has already noticed this and are trying to crack down bitcoin users and their stored coins.

I think at this point the only way of getting to know who owns what in Bitcoin, is when they start forcing exchanges to release user information. Only then governments can actually find people with large amounts of coins that try to hide it from their local tax agency. It's the big fishes that they are after. I just hope exchanges will refuse these requests but I don't think they have much chances of winning against the governments.

We need more faster decentraliz exchang to prevent this. Very soon.

People have been asking for decentralized exchanges since the fall of MtGox, but so far none has popped up. At least, not one in major form where people want to make use of. I just wonder what the reason for this is. Is it really that difficult to launch such an exchange? I personally think the implementation of an automated system that allows people to deposit and cash out fiat is what's holding everything back.

karawantbtc

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Quote from: richardsNY on January 18, 2017, 01:03:29 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on January 18, 2017, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: charmingfreddie on January 17, 2017, 03:30:31 PM

Of course it will kill the income tax especially in the US where taxes are crazy and illegal. It could make the end of the US government and the beginning of high unemployment which will be bad for everybody. There will be a lot of chaos I think.

The taxes are even higher in Europe than in the U.S. so bitcoin could benefit more to those that live in places where there are even higher taxes than the norm, the problem is the EU has already noticed this and are trying to crack down bitcoin users and their stored coins.

I think at this point the only way of getting to know who owns what in Bitcoin, is when they start forcing exchanges to release user information. Only then governments can actually find people with large amounts of coins that try to hide it from their local tax agency. It's the big fishes that they are after. I just hope exchanges will refuse these requests but I don't think they have much chances of winning against the governments.

We need more faster decentraliz exchang to prevent this. Very soon.

richardsNY

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Quote from: wxa7115 on January 18, 2017, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: charmingfreddie on January 17, 2017, 03:30:31 PM

Of course it will kill the income tax especially in the US where taxes are crazy and illegal. It could make the end of the US government and the beginning of high unemployment which will be bad for everybody. There will be a lot of chaos I think.

The taxes are even higher in Europe than in the U.S. so bitcoin could benefit more to those that live in places where there are even higher taxes than the norm, the problem is the EU has already noticed this and are trying to crack down bitcoin users and their stored coins.

I think at this point the only way of getting to know who owns what in Bitcoin, is when they start forcing exchanges to release user information. Only then governments can actually find people with large amounts of coins that try to hide it from their local tax agency. It's the big fishes that they are after. I just hope exchanges will refuse these requests but I don't think they have much chances of winning against the governments.

wxa7115

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Bitcoin is GOD

Quote from: charmingfreddie on January 17, 2017, 03:30:31 PM

Of course it will kill the income tax especially in the US where taxes are crazy and illegal. It could make the end of the US government and the beginning of high unemployment which will be bad for everybody. There will be a lot of chaos I think.

The taxes are even higher in Europe than in the U.S. so bitcoin could benefit more to those that live in places where there are even higher taxes than the norm, the problem is the EU has already noticed this and are trying to crack down bitcoin users and their stored coins.

Hydrogen

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I wish people wouldn't support taxation of marijuana so strongly.

Do they realize their legalized weed would be much cheaper if it wasn't heavily taxed?

Bitcoin is the same.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

Quote from: Japinat on January 17, 2017, 10:19:27 PM

They really want to control us, good job for Coinbase for protecting the privacy of their clients. We are here for for privacy but if the government will enforce their laws to get our information then it will just defeat the purpose. They could make different method to let the traders who are making an income to pay the appropriate taxes but not all the users who are transacting online. Even banks has a bank secrecy law, what happen to IRS?

to me this news sounds more like a publicity stunt and it seems like they are trying so hard to keep their users and don't lose their share of the bitcoin exchange market they currently have stablished, otherwise their headquarters is located in US and they have to follow the laws of US and that will require them to cooperate with IRS eventually if they have not been doing it all along.

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Quote from: kanazawa on January 18, 2017, 06:42:05 AM

I agree with a guy here who said that anon crypto and Bitcoin will kill taxation and I'm still very trustful that this gonna happen. I think when people who're in the beginning or the process (in the enter and exit of the board, because it ties the non competitive situation caused by autorities)... use this currencies in the whole process.

More than 90% of the people use cryptocurrencies so that they can evade taxes and be anonymous with the money they got. Authorities have no information about the transactions so no one can track it.

topesis

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Quote from: BADecker on January 17, 2017, 09:21:40 PM

Coinbase CEO Says Bitcoin Exchange Will Be 'Forced' to Fight IRS Order

Quote from: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/coinbase-ceo-says-bitcoin-exchange-will-be-forced-to-fight-irs-order

In November of 2016, the Internal Revenue Service ordered bitcoin trading company Coinbase to hand over the identities of millions of customers who made transactions through the company over three years, to find out who hasn't been paying their taxes.

Now, Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong has suggested in a Medium post that the company will go to court with the IRS, writing, "...it appears we will be forced to contest [the subpoena] in court to protect our customers' privacy, at great expense."

Online bitcoin exchanges are the key point of access for people buying or selling bitcoin. Coinbase, founded in 2012, is one of the oldest and largest.

The IRS ordered Coinbase to turn over the identities of all US customers who used the exchange between 2013 and 2015, in order to determine whether users have been paying taxes on their bitcoin.

Read More: How Coinbase Traders Are Fighting Back IRS Attempts to Reveal Their Identities

The summons has been highly controversial in cryptocurrency circles since it would reveal the identities of many people not under active investigation, and who haven't broken any laws. People do pay taxes on bitcoin (or they're supposed to), and according to the IRS, virtual currencies are treated like property for federal tax purposes.

"Asking for detailed transaction information on so many people, simply for using digital currency, is a violation of [customers'] privacy, and is not the best way for us to accomplish our mutual objective," Armstrong wrote.

Armstrong also suggested an alternate way forward for Coinbase and the IRS, which he writes is for all US bitcoin users to pay their taxes: Coinbase would send a yearly tax form that is commonly used by stock brokers to report financial gains or losses to customers and the IRS, he argued.

Read more at http://motherboard.vice.com/read/coinbase-ceo-says-bitcoin-exchange-will-be-forced-to-fight-irs-order.

Cool

I think Coinbase is just fighting a lost battle, it is their wrong decision that put their users in this position. From experience, if government need something they get it.

kanazawa

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I agree with a guy here who said that anon crypto and Bitcoin will kill taxation and I'm still very trustful that this gonna happen. I think when people who're in the beginning or the process (in the enter and exit of the board, because it ties the non competitive situation caused by autorities)... use this currencies in the whole process.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: Theb on January 18, 2017, 06:21:56 AM

Quote from: boybugs18 on January 18, 2017, 05:25:29 AM

if you live on a corrupt country much better to use bitcoin as you use fiat in all things you are doing in your life the government you have on your country would just get the tax and spend it for their personal use/trip so the tax they're getting to the people is useless so it is much better to use a currency that has no tax IMHO.

I don't think that is a good idea. As soon as that government realizes that their national income is down then they will start investigating on what is the source of the problem. Then they will later on find out it is because of people hiding their income via Bitcoin. As you can see if many people start hiding their money like that the government will notice it quickly.

Government would really notice it and as you said they will saw that tax is lowering which means its citizens are hiding something and you are right they will really discover bitcoin but i dont know on how long since bitcoin cant be traced its users.Bitcoin could really kill income tax if people would hide their money.

darklus123

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Quote from: BADecker on January 17, 2017, 09:21:40 PM

~snipp

Well this one does not kill income tax haha this only skips lol. Although coinbase didn't really share the identities of it's user does that mean that they are now protecting its users? Still they got a lot of issues that needs to be handled. Us citizens of coinbase should enjoy their freedom for now and hopefully they can still do it after the pending case is done. More than that if coinbase would lose and can't have a choice but to give it to IRS then US bitcoin users of coinbase would surely be behind those bars if they can't pay the demands

Topic: Bitcoin Will Kill The Income Tax - page 44. (Read 29939 times)