Topic: Bitcoin will save the elite. - page 3. (Read 2895 times)

What is funny in this whole discussion, is the idea that one "becomes rich with bitcoin".  How does one become rich with bitcoin ?  By selling it to a greater fool.  If bitcoin were a CURRENCY, it would be simply an intermediate asset that helped a trade.  But if bitcoin is a speculative greater-fool asset, then you can become rich with it.

How ?

1) by being an early adopter.  That means, by having been a geek at the right moment with the right information.  If these people become the new elite, that's just replacing an elite with another one (Winkelvoss brothers ?).

2) by trading with inside information (when you can manipulate markets).  You can only win in a market for sure, if you have information others don't.  The poor guy doesn't.  If he starts trading bitcoin, he will just pump his money into those that have information.

So bitcoin as a vehicle to become rich through seigniorage (early adopters), or inside information (market manipulators) is just going to make a new elite, partially the old elite btw, and a few new bourgeois, who know how to play best the greater-fool game.

It is not going to relieve poverty problems in Africa, for instance.  

I'm talking without facts but I almost guarantee the average joe poor guy in say America isn't going to use Bitcoin anytime soon....generally speaking.

I'm not in any way knocking Bitcoin, if everyone in the world used it I would be a happy man. My point is the big meme for Bitcoin was the end of printed money and a rebalancing of economic disparity etc. My point is in reality it's more likely it will end up serving to widen the wealth and technologically poor gap if anything. Dont forget half the world doesn't have the Internet.


Anecdotal points about some making money isn't the point, I'm talking big picture of reality.


In my opinion Bitcoin will never be used by the masses, it will be a plaything for the richer elite.

Yeah but think about the positives that bitcoin provide.

-Anonymous transactions
-Instant transactions throughout the globe, no matter where you are
-Essentially no fees, except for less than a dollar in miner fees, which doesn't increase as your transaction amount goes up
-Anyone that has internet can access it.

Think about how people can save big on transferring money just to relatives worldwide.

Just average people that do not have much wealth.

i'm not with what you said, bitcoin is helping indeed the poor, unless you think that they are the one puping and helping the rich get even more richer

what i think is the opposite, the rich are the oen that buy and play against other rich people, while the poorer are take advantage of this by making easy profit

unlike in the fiat money where the rich are literally becoming more richer because they get the money from the poorer, i'm talking about the politician which are overpaid for example

It must be confirmed that officials use bitcoin to wash money. They use it to hide the amount of money they have corrupted, which is one of the reasons why bitcoin is strongly accepted in China. That's a bad thing, I hate corrupt people and the consequences they cause. Most seriously, bitcoin can be ruined if this behavior happens continuously. Civilians are unaware of the bitcoin, so there are very few who use it, officials and the rich are the main users, and they use it for corruption.

Everybody is free to buy Bitcoin. Maybe your religion or government is not allowing it, but you could still get some and this will never change. The day that Bitcoin has anything to say as to who can use it, is the day Bitcoin dies. Bitcoin might not be the solution to every problem, but it is a huge improvement over what we have now. All the information you need is out there, so if somebody doesn't use Bitcoin it's their own fault.

If the price continues to rise and having in mind the fact that the largest amount of Bitcoins is held by relatively small number of users that leads to the conclusion that Bitcoin already is elite currency. But still I don't like to see it this way and still hope that it will be widely spread among ordinary people who could have benefits of Bitcoin.

The question reminds me of a story and I hope op will understand it along with others. A person came outside a village and saw a saint and asked what kind of people live here, the Saint replied what you think jealous angry maybe he replied saint nodded in approval, another man came same question same reply by saint, the man said happy and prosperous then the same live in. Morale is what your perceive is what you believe. There are so many I know who got rich thanks to Bitcoins, and they were not elite. The so called rich are yet to come in Bitcoins directly. People are getting rich because they are timing it well, earning for it. Look around so many of us earned Bitcoins through hard work and that's what you need to do.

To make money, you need money. But it is not sufficient. You need to have enough belief in Bitcoin to invest in it.
The average man, who had realized the potential of Bitcoin, could have scraped together a few 100 $ a few years back. That would have given him rich dividends.

This is an interesting point. And it's definitely true that bitcoin can make the rich become richer, it's not because it's bitcoin. It's because to make money you gotta have money. Any investment can make the rich richer because they have more money to use to leverage the upside potential of the investment.

The bigger question might be: Is bitcoin something that the average man can't obtain? I'd argue No. The average man can obtain bitcoin, they just need to know that it exists and have the will to just buy some or earn some. It doesn't have to be 100s of coins, most people don't have that now because they missed out on the earliest period of access and adoption. Also, and argument could be made that most of the people that did benefit from those early mining or Bitcoin at less than $10 days were the "average man" who was more interested in technology innovation over amassing a fortune.

A handful of people have become rich but very few, what you mean is some people have made like a million dollars or two. That buys a nice car and a small apartment in major cities of the world IF that.....that's not the real global rich I'm talking about. Buts sure it's helps us guys involved in it in more modest ways....but my point is we are a small group, not the masses.

Even if the rich Chinese officials use it to hoard their ill-gotten wealth, there is some redistribution of wealth which has taken place. Most of the early adopters are not super rich. When the corrupt pile their money into Bitcoin, wealth is transferred from them to early adopters.

Tax evasion is a good thing, but bitcoin is not well designed for that.  Tax evasion (state theft evasion) is one of those niche applications of crypto.  The one you mention: hindrance to free trade of labor, too.  Crypto can go there where fiat is difficult to use.

Yes. I forgot about tax evasion as well.

The fact is that bitcoin can be used for good. For example the skilled professional in poor countries are probably severely underpaid. They can make a much better iving online by connecting to other employers all over the world.

But when employers are paying them, they don't know whether they are going to be getting a legitimate payment from the employer or not. If they don't know their employer well, they can get charged back easily on paypal or other reversible means.

Then there are the fees. The fees are ridiculous on most fiat money transfer services.

That's where bitcoin can help. However the problem is that not much people in developing countries even know that bitcoin exists.

This is an interesting point. And it's definitely true that bitcoin can make the rich become richer, it's not because it's bitcoin. It's because to make money you gotta have money. Any investment can make the rich richer because they have more money to use to leverage the upside potential of the investment.

The bigger question might be: Is bitcoin something that the average man can't obtain? I'd argue No. The average man can obtain bitcoin, they just need to know that it exists and have the will to just buy some or earn some. It doesn't have to be 100s of coins, most people don't have that now because they missed out on the earliest period of access and adoption. Also, and argument could be made that most of the people that did benefit from those early mining or Bitcoin at less than $10 days were the "average man" who was more interested in technology innovation over amassing a fortune.

For now it looks true but some factor make it so. I expect a  more internet world sooner, where internet is everywhere in the world. I expect also government creating there own cryptocurrency where that can control and invest into bitcoin, then more online store for daily exchange of bitcoin but by then bitcoin would have hit a high value

Actually bitcoin is not designed for only elite people, it was created to be used by all of us, and for poor people it can become an opportunity to earn more money for them, so actually it was design for all people it just depends on how the people used bitcoin

It's true. I had to show my secret decoder ring before I was allowed to download the software to mine bitcoins!

Less sarcastic version: What is Bitcoin's barrier to entry? If average people choose not to use Bitcoin, and Bitcoin can "shelter money" as the OP suggests, isn't the average person just shooting himself in the foot?

On a side note: You could erase all money in the world and evenly distribute X amount of new money to every person on the planet, and before long I imagine it would end up looking very much like the Pareto principle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle#In_economics

Taxation is what makes the elite rich.  Since the first kings.  Only very few people become rich by their merits.  Most rich people become rich because of state money, state contracts, etc... Taxes is stealing from the poor to give to the rich, while telling the poor that it is the opposite and distributing some cookies.  The best way to become rich is to have a company that delivers to the state and some lobbying.

But with a transparent ledger revealing all of your transactions to the world, graved in stone, you must be a hell of an idiot thinking that you can hide from taxes using bitcoin.  This is because the government hasn't yet caught up.  Once they do full ledger analysis, all those trying to hide on a transparent ledger will be seriously disappointed about the privacy lack of bitcoin.

What is especially terrible with bitcoin is the finite amount of it, making it deflationary in the long term.  This allows entities that can print fiat at will, to obtain a large stash of it "for nothing", like they do with gold, and then, being a "free whale", manipulate the thing like hell, as a pump of value from the "innocent speculator" to the "manipulating whale" (central bank).   Whenever central banks will start buying bitcoin (with freshly printed fiat), people will cheer on the forum, and not see that this is the ultimate end of bitcoin as a free (as in freedom) currency.