Author

Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 124. (Read 378996 times)

donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
So you are refusing to define a word that you are using to smear Bitcoin XT.

No, it's not a consideration for me since the term altcoin for me in reality is more respectable than XT by far.

I'd say the definition of altcoin covers it because it covers all rule changes that incurred bifurcations in the past as well, this undoubtedly should carry weight when considering the definition of this word. But if I were to choose, I'd pick another word like "altfork" or something like that. Altcoin flatters XT in my opinion.

The only thing I like about it is that apparently it offends and irks some tiny, tiny men.

I accept the definition as it's widely accepted and this is the most important consideration for definitions.

I suppose if you refuse to define the word that you are using it is impossible to prove you wrong. Keep in mind however that if you make an argument that can not be disproved that such an argument is most definitely not based on reason or any type of sound argumentation whatsoever.

As for the rest of your argument it actually just comes down to an appeal to authority and an appeal to the majority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Words work exactly like that, they are defined by authority and popularity, not because some enlightened or self-important person settled the matter. At least not in the general case.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
It seems like you are just appropriating the term in order to use it to construct this false narrative. Furthermore according to this "wiki" that you have linked the definition of an altcoin is that it is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain. Therefore according to that "wikis" definition of an altcoin Bitcoin XT is not an altcoin. Therefore this wiki is wrong, it is even self evident based on their own enclosed reasoning.

If the definition of an altcoin is not that it is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain, please enlighten us with your definition of an altcoin instead. Then we can apply that definition to Bitcoin XT and see if it is consistent.

There is no established definition of what an altcoin is.

Currently the discussion is dominated by:

- Core devs
- The wiki
- The dev mailing list
- Theymos' forums and reddit subs

They all basically agree.

vs

- Hearndresen and their loyalist skeleton crew

Your call. I made mine.
So you are refusing to define a word that you are using to smear Bitcoin XT. I suppose if you refuse to define the word that you are using it is impossible to prove you wrong. Keep in mind however that if you make an argument that can not be disproved that such an argument is most definitely not based on reason or any type of sound argumentation whatsoever.

As for the rest of your argument it actually just comes down to an appeal to authority and an appeal to the majority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
the fact that Bitcoin XT is considered an altcoin instead of a protocol of bitcoin makes a huge difference and i suppose XT supporters doesn't accept that difference

Yep I guess they are rather butthurt about it. Sad day for them.

Satoshi does not mention the term altcoin anywhere in the whitepaper, and I don't even remember him mentioning it in passing.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
Saying that XT is an altcoin is factually incorrect, this is also a false narrative. Bitcoin XT is compatible with the Bitcoin blockchain. The fork will only be triggered once a majority of mining power supports it, which means that post fork Bitcoin XT will also be compatible with the largest surviving Bitcoin blockchain. There is a fundamental difference between a blockchain fork and an altcoin. It would be wrong to equate these two separate phenomena.

That entirely depends on what the actual definition of altcoin is, this is an evolving space and definitions are being settled.

If Feathercoin is an altcoin then so would be XT.
If we define an altcoin as being a blockchain that is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain then according to this definition Bitcoin XT is not a altcoin.

The definition of an "alt coin" that I like is the one based off Satoshi's description on page 3 of the Bitcoin white paper:



I summarize this as: "Bitcoin is the longest chain composed (exclusively) of valid transactions."  

With that definition, a coin is "not Bitcoin" if:

(a) it's based on a blockchain that doesn't begin from the Satoshi genesis block,

(b) the blockchain does begin from the Satoshi genesis block but is not the longest chain composed of valid transactions.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
It seems like you are just appropriating the term in order to use it to construct this false narrative. Furthermore according to this "wiki" that you have linked the definition of an altcoin is that it is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain. Therefore according to that "wikis" definition of an altcoin Bitcoin XT is not an altcoin. Therefore this wiki is wrong, it is even self evident based on their own enclosed reasoning.

If the definition of an altcoin is not that it is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain, please enlighten us with your definition of an altcoin instead. Then we can apply that definition to Bitcoin XT and see if it is consistent.

There is no established definition of what an altcoin is.

Currently the discussion is dominated by:

- Core devs
- The wiki
- The dev mailing list
- Theymos' forums and reddit subs

They all basically agree.

vs

- Hearndresen and their loyalist skeleton crew
- ~0.2% of the mining power and up to 8.6% of the nodes (the latter not verifiable).

Your call. I made mine.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Saying that XT is an altcoin is factually incorrect, this is also a false narrative. Bitcoin XT is compatible with the Bitcoin blockchain. The fork will only be triggered once a majority of mining power supports it, which means that post fork Bitcoin XT will also be compatible with the largest surviving Bitcoin blockchain. There is a fundamental difference between a blockchain fork and an altcoin. It would be wrong to equate these two separate phenomena.
That entirely depends on what the actual definition of altcoin is, this is an evolving space and definitions are being settled.

If Feathercoin is an altcoin then so would be XT.
If we define an altcoin as being a blockchain that is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain then according to this definition Bitcoin XT is not a altcoin.

But that's not the definition many of us go by, certainly not me. By that definition Bitcoin today is an altcoin of Bitcoin from 2012.

You can look it up in the wiki linked above.
It seems like you are just appropriating the term in order to use it to construct this false narrative. Furthermore according to this "wiki" that you have linked the definition of an altcoin is that it is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain. Therefore according to that "wikis" definition of an altcoin Bitcoin XT is not an altcoin. Therefore this wiki is wrong, it is even self evident based on their own enclosed reasoning.

If the definition of an altcoin is not that it is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain, please enlighten us with your definition of an altcoin instead. Then we can apply that definition to Bitcoin XT and see if it is consistent.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Saying that XT is an altcoin is factually incorrect, this is also a false narrative. Bitcoin XT is compatible with the Bitcoin blockchain. The fork will only be triggered once a majority of mining power supports it, which means that post fork Bitcoin XT will also be compatible with the largest surviving Bitcoin blockchain. There is a fundamental difference between a blockchain fork and an altcoin. It would be wrong to equate these two separate phenomena.

That entirely depends on what the actual definition of altcoin is, this is an evolving space and definitions are being settled.

If Feathercoin is an altcoin then so would be XT.
If we define an altcoin as being a blockchain that is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain then according to this definition Bitcoin XT is not a altcoin.

But that's not the definition many of us go by, certainly not me. By that definition Bitcoin today is an altcoin of Bitcoin from 2012.

You can look it up in the wiki linked above.

in any case, once the fork active (if ever), it will be considered an altcoin, incompatible with the holy blockchain, and the dumping shall start upon the mutineers..
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Saying that XT is an altcoin is factually incorrect, this is also a false narrative. Bitcoin XT is compatible with the Bitcoin blockchain. The fork will only be triggered once a majority of mining power supports it, which means that post fork Bitcoin XT will also be compatible with the largest surviving Bitcoin blockchain. There is a fundamental difference between a blockchain fork and an altcoin. It would be wrong to equate these two separate phenomena.

That entirely depends on what the actual definition of altcoin is, this is an evolving space and definitions are being settled.

If Feathercoin is an altcoin then so would be XT.
If we define an altcoin as being a blockchain that is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain then according to this definition Bitcoin XT is not a altcoin.

But that's not the definition many of us go by, certainly not me. By that definition Bitcoin today is an altcoin of Bitcoin from 2012.

You can look it up in the wiki linked above.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Saying that XT is an altcoin is factually incorrect, this is also a false narrative. Bitcoin XT is compatible with the Bitcoin blockchain. The fork will only be triggered once a majority of mining power supports it, which means that post fork Bitcoin XT will also be compatible with the largest surviving Bitcoin blockchain. There is a fundamental difference between a blockchain fork and an altcoin. It would be wrong to equate these two separate phenomena.

That entirely depends on what the actual definition of altcoin is, this is an evolving space and definitions are being settled.

If Feathercoin is an altcoin then so would be XT.
If we define an altcoin as being a blockchain that is incompatible with the main Bitcoin blockchain then according to this definition Bitcoin XT is not a altcoin.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Saying that XT is an altcoin is factually incorrect, this is also a false narrative. Bitcoin XT is compatible with the Bitcoin blockchain. The fork will only be triggered once a majority of mining power supports it, which means that post fork Bitcoin XT will also be compatible with the largest surviving Bitcoin blockchain. There is a fundamental difference between a blockchain fork and an altcoin. It would be wrong to equate these two separate phenomena.

That entirely depends on what the actual definition of altcoin is, this is an evolving space and definitions are being settled.

If Feathercoin is an altcoin then so would be XT.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Saying that XT is an altcoin is factually incorrect, this is also a false narrative. Bitcoin XT is compatible with the Bitcoin blockchain. The fork will only be triggered once a majority of mining power supports it, which means that post fork Bitcoin XT will still be compatible with the largest surviving Bitcoin blockchain. There is a fundamental difference between a blockchain fork and an altcoin. It is wrong to equate these two separate phenomena.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice
As the "official wiki" says, it's technically an altcoin.  Smiley

https://archive.is/rjhmO


Quote
Since it is incompatible with the Bitcoin protocol, it is technically an altcoin, but due to an unusually large economic acceptance it may potentially become a "new Bitcoin" some day.

Quote
If insufficient mining hash power runs XT to reach supermajority then nothing will happen. If enough does, XT users will follow a new blockchain and cease to be using and trading bitcoins.


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_XT

Warning: you will be banned if you try to vandalise the wiki.


Only stupid people would vandalise a wiki, anyway the fact that Bitcoin XT is considered an altcoin instead of a protocol of bitcoin makes a huge difference and i suppose XT supporters doesn't accept that difference
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
As the "official wiki" says, it's technically an altcoin.  Smiley

https://archive.is/rjhmO


Quote
Since it is incompatible with the Bitcoin protocol, it is technically an altcoin, but due to an unusually large economic acceptance it may potentially become a "new Bitcoin" some day.

Quote
If insufficient mining hash power runs XT to reach supermajority then nothing will happen. If enough does, XT users will follow a new blockchain and cease to be using and trading bitcoins.


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_XT

Warning: you will be banned if you try to vandalise the wiki.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
My original thread ended up moderated into the Altcoins sub, but I'm taking the content to the main forum anyway....

"Libertarian" bitcoiners are beginning to out themselves as XT/101 shills:


Because Libertarians and anarchists would never support a ridiculous, corporatist 1MBcap fee subsidy.
That's something for subsidiots.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
I also think it is flawed to create such a false narrative implying that increasing the block size is somehow connected to such institutions which most of us here despise and that this sacrifices the principles we uphold.

False? False how? False in the way that Goldman Sachs etc are heavily invested in the Bitcoin companies that promote growth schedules that would turn Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0?

How can you make such a statement when you know the financial fat cats that Bitcoin is designed to escape from are backing that very same position?
Increasing the blocksize is not the equivalent of turning Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0. This is exactly what I mean with false narratives.

You have also completely missed my point, just because these companies support these specific proposals it does not follow that these proposals therefore lack merit.


Really? Bitcoin is set to usurp one of the oldest, most entrenched, most conservative and easily the most profitable businesses of all time, and you trust the proposals of those who have everything to lose? A man with self-admitted lack of talent/imagination with mathematics? Aren't you kind of depending on either Blockstream or Goldman Sachs being honest with you about their technical analysis when your math is poor?

I'm sensing I know which is true and which is the falsehood here.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
I also think it is flawed to create such a false narrative implying that increasing the block size is somehow connected to such institutions which most of us here despise and that this sacrifices the principles we uphold.

False? False how? False in the way that Goldman Sachs etc are heavily invested in the Bitcoin companies that promote growth schedules that would turn Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0?

How can you make such a statement when you know the financial fat cats that Bitcoin is designed to escape from are backing that very same position?
Increasing the blocksize is not the equivalent of turning Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0. This is exactly what I mean with false narratives.

You have also completely missed my point, just because these companies support these specific proposals it does not follow that these proposals therefore lack merit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

False? False how? False in the way that Goldman Sachs etc are heavily invested in the Bitcoin companies that promote growth schedules that would turn Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0?

Increasing the blocksize is not the equivalent of turning Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0. This is exactly what I mean with false narratives.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
I also think it is flawed to create such a false narrative implying that increasing the block size is somehow connected to such institutions which most of us here despise and that this sacrifices the principles we uphold.

False? False how? False in the way that Goldman Sachs etc are heavily invested in the Bitcoin companies that promote growth schedules that would turn Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0?

How can you make such a statement when you know the financial fat cats that Bitcoin is designed to escape from are backing that very same position?
Increasing the blocksize is not the equivalent of turning Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0. This is exactly what I mean with false narratives.

You have also completely missed my point, just because these companies support these specific proposals it does not follow that these proposals therefore lack merit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
wonder if bitcoin will survive them.

it has survived to altcoin.
industry circle is like rain ... it don't stay.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
I also think it is flawed to create such a false narrative implying that increasing the block size is somehow connected to such institutions which most of us here despise and that this sacrifices the principles we uphold.

False? False how? False in the way that Goldman Sachs etc are heavily invested in the Bitcoin companies that promote growth schedules that would turn Bitcoin into Fiat 2.0?

How can you make such a statement when you know the financial fat cats that Bitcoin is designed to escape from are backing that very same position?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
We do not need to be overly concerned about corporations and banks getting involved. They will still have to play according to the same rules of the Bitcoin protocol, if anything we should be happy that they are getting more involved since that might make these banks and corporations more transparent and responsible, while also strengthening the network. As long as the fundamental rules are not changed then we have nothing to fear from such institutions. I also think it is flawed to create such a false narrative implying that increasing the block size is somehow connected to such institutions which most of us here despise and that this sacrifices the principles we uphold. It would be more useful discussing the pros and cons of such a change in the light of the principles of decentralization and financial freedom as opposed to creating such an overly simplistic and false narrative. After all not everything Goldman Sachs does is wrong, it is flawed to say that something is wrong just because they support it, this overly simplistic and flawed logic. In same sense for example you could say that the Nazis supported and liked sandwiches, which does not then mean that supporting and liking sandwiches is wrong.


 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Good one.



Jump to: