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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 140. (Read 378996 times)

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Just to illustrate how spectacularly retarded your conception of Bitcoin is:


If it was worth their while, and that applied to the majority of miners, then they would probably get together and agree to start accepting bigger blocks anyway mining 50 BTC blocks, and wouldn't give a damn what core thought.

Thats the reality of it, and thats why I am not particularly worried any more about all hot air about why the block size limit subsidy should remain at 25BTC. The people who stand to make/lose the most will do what is needed. They have the power to, and the inclination.

Miners aren't stupid. If they see they can make more money mining 50 BTC blocks with loads of transaction fees. They will make it happen.


That's a rather interesting comment...

Are you sure you know how Bitcoin works?

You are now confusing fees and subsidy?

Are you sure you know how economics work?

 Cheesy

You are so simple. What are you? 15 years old?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
I know that my home connection is considerably slower just from the node I run, as is.

If your node is slowing down your internet connection you could limit the number of connections, or throttle the network usage.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Just to illustrate how spectacularly retarded your conception of Bitcoin is:


If it was worth their while, and that applied to the majority of miners, then they would probably get together and agree to start accepting bigger blocks anyway mining 50 BTC blocks, and wouldn't give a damn what core thought.

Thats the reality of it, and thats why I am not particularly worried any more about all hot air about why the block size limit subsidy should remain at 25BTC. The people who stand to make/lose the most will do what is needed. They have the power to, and the inclination.

Miners aren't stupid. If they see they can make more money mining 50 BTC blocks with loads of transaction fees. They will make it happen.


That's a rather interesting comment...

Are you sure you know how Bitcoin works?

You are now confusing fees and subsidy?

Are you sure you know how economics work?
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Just to illustrate how spectacularly retarded your conception of Bitcoin is:


If it was worth their while, and that applied to the majority of miners, then they would probably get together and agree to start accepting bigger blocks anyway mining 50 BTC blocks, and wouldn't give a damn what core thought.

Thats the reality of it, and thats why I am not particularly worried any more about all hot air about why the block size limit subsidy should remain at 25BTC. The people who stand to make/lose the most will do what is needed. They have the power to, and the inclination.

Miners aren't stupid. If they see they can make more money mining 50 BTC blocks with loads of transaction fees. They will make it happen.


That's a rather interesting comment...

Are you sure you know how Bitcoin works?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Dorian knows what's up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nzqqh/hi_rbitcoin_i_am_dorian_nakamoto_ama/cvsyyjg

Quote
I thought it was a wonderful concept for our global transaction based on fully meshed internet world. Distributed processing vs. centralization. More robust. And the purpose to serve the people even down to the poor rather than the profit base, open source software, ... Best financial invention in this uncertain dollar based or the next exchange based competition.

Note the emphasis against centralisation.


If it was worth their while, and that applied to the majority of miners, then they would probably get together and agree to start accepting bigger blocks anyway, and wouldn't give a damn what core thought.

Thats the reality of it lmao, and thats why I am not particularly worried any more about all hot air about why the block size limit should remain at 1MB. The people who stand to make/lose the most will do what is needed. They have the power to, and the inclination.

Miners aren't stupid. If they see they can make more money mining huge blocks with loads of transaction fees. They will make it happen. lololol whatever bro, still cant fill half of the 1MB average blocksize tho, just sayin..


That's a rather interesting comment...

Are you sure you know how Bitcoin works?

conjectures & feelings.

lel
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Dorian knows what's up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nzqqh/hi_rbitcoin_i_am_dorian_nakamoto_ama/cvsyyjg

Quote
I thought it was a wonderful concept for our global transaction based on fully meshed internet world. Distributed processing vs. centralization. More robust. And the purpose to serve the people even down to the poor rather than the profit base, open source software, ... Best financial invention in this uncertain dollar based or the next exchange based competition.

Note the emphasis against centralisation.


If it was worth their while, and that applied to the majority of miners, then they would probably get together and agree to start accepting bigger blocks anyway, and wouldn't give a damn what core thought.

Thats the reality of it, and thats why I am not particularly worried any more about all hot air about why the block size limit should remain at 1MB. The people who stand to make/lose the most will do what is needed. They have the power to, and the inclination.

Miners aren't stupid. If they see they can make more money mining huge blocks with loads of transaction fees. They will make it happen.


That's a rather interesting comment...

Are you sure you know how Bitcoin works?
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Will 8MB blocks right now cause this. Probably not.
Will 8GB blocks right now cause this. Probably.

Are you going to Peter R's school of science?

Your science can prove it either way? Go ahead.

Ill continue to look at uncertainty in terms of probability.
I'm not the one making stuff up, so I don't have to prove it.

I know that even 1MB strains a lot of nodes out of the network, so it's unlikely that an eight-fold increase would help the situation. I know that my home connection is considerably slower just from the node I run, as is.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
Will 8MB blocks right now cause this. Probably not.
Will 8GB blocks right now cause this. Probably.

Are you going to Peter R's school of science?

Your science can prove it either way? Go ahead.

Ill continue to look at uncertainty in terms of probability.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Will 8MB blocks right now cause this. Probably not.
Will 8GB blocks right now cause this. Probably.

Are you going to Peter R's school of science?

You probably should to finally get a clue.

You most probably should.
jr. member
Activity: 42
Merit: 1
Regarding the idea of Bitcoin driven by "the market", we need to understand one important aspect of the current setup. For as long as there are active players in the global arena with the ability to print banknotes at their own discretion (we might as well call them "the big block institutions"), the notion that "the market" will decide what is best for Bitcoin basically translates to the question: "Hey, bitcoiners, how much for your Core values?". "Not for sale" seems to be the answer.

The fact that we are seeing so much resistance to premature block size increase (which in turn comes with a risk of setting up a precedent and a trend for eventual centralization) is perfectly in line with the reason Bitcoin was created in the first place, namely to serve as a counter-balance to those same institutions that are now actively promoting the increase. If Bitcoin takes on that path it may at some point begin contradicting itself and lose the trust it has gained so far.

So, when entertaining the idea of the market-driven hypothesis, one mustn't easily discount the ideological weight of Bitcoin as a counter-measure to present day fiat and the value it derives from it. Changing the rules of the game must be the last resort option considered only when another similar system gains enough momentum and provides competitive characteristics servicing the same market. The path to The Future of Bitcoin is through people's Goodwill.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Will 8MB blocks right now cause this. Probably not.
Will 8GB blocks right now cause this. Probably.

Are you going to Peter R's school of science?

You probably should to finally get a clue.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Will 8MB blocks right now cause this. Probably not.
Will 8GB blocks right now cause this. Probably.

Are you going to Peter R's school of science?
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
Either they are paid by a big block institution to show how disgusting the small blockers are; or they do not realize how repulsive and counterproductive they act for the cause that they postulate. Both possibilities seem nearly impossible: To be that corrupt and to be that stupid.

Stop speculating about motivations.  You are not a psychic mind-reader.

As one of the few remaining (nearly extinct?) zero-percenter Gavinista dead-enders, this is what you should be worried about.


I don't speculate. I said it is either this or that.
While you are still fighting your ridiculous Gavin proxy war, because you know that you'll get big blocks.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
Dorian knows what's up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nzqqh/hi_rbitcoin_i_am_dorian_nakamoto_ama/cvsyyjg

Quote
I thought it was a wonderful concept for our global transaction based on fully meshed internet world. Distributed processing vs. centralization. More robust. And the purpose to serve the people even down to the poor rather than the profit base, open source software, ... Best financial invention in this uncertain dollar based or the next exchange based competition.

Note the emphasis against centralisation.


Dorian knows photoshop.  Note the emphasis on aliased pixels in the "proof".

legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
Dorian knows what's up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nzqqh/hi_rbitcoin_i_am_dorian_nakamoto_ama/cvsyyjg

Quote
I thought it was a wonderful concept for our global transaction based on fully meshed internet world. Distributed processing vs. centralization. More robust. And the purpose to serve the people even down to the poor rather than the profit base, open source software, ... Best financial invention in this uncertain dollar based or the next exchange based competition.

Note the emphasis against centralisation.


Centralised is the concept that something happens in one location, or is controlled by one entity.

Decentralised means that it is not. So if two nodes are running, its decentralised. Obviously, if 10 nodes are running its *more* decentralised.

What "small blockers against centralisation" crowd seem to want us to believe is that to be decentralised then that means every single one of them has to be abe to run a full node or it doesn't count as *true* decentralisation, and that having bigger blocks means they can't so this. This is blatantly fans in two counts.

Firstly not everyone of them needs to be able to run a node for the network to be counted as decentralised. There just needs to be two or more independent node operators.

Secondly, the idea that it is *impossible* for them to run a node. It's not it s sliding scale of difficulty, based on a whole bunch of variables, many of which are in the uncertain future. So you can't possibly say its impossible.

They are asking us to believe that modify the block size will inevitably lead to the most extreme negative outcome. When in reality they cannot possibly know this. I cannot possibly know that it will not either, let me be clear. What you can do is look at the balance of probability.

Will 8MB blocks right now cause this. Probably not.
Will 8GB blocks right now cause this. Probably.

Nobody is asking for the second case. Furthermore its massively unlikely that raising the limit to 8GB would automatically mean that 8GB blocks start being generated.

It's also quite unlikely that raising the limit to 8MB means that 8MB blocks start being generated, because miner's won't do that, because its not worth their while.

If it was worth their while, and that applied to the majority of miners, then they would probably get together and agree to start accepting bigger blocks anyway, and wouldn't give a damn what core thought.

Thats the reality of it, and thats why I am not particularly worried any more about all this hot air about why the block size limit should remain at 1MB. The people who stand to make/lose the most will do what is needed. They have the power to, and the inclination.

Miners aren't stupid. If they see they can make more money mining huge blocks with loads of transaction fees. They will make it happen.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Dorian knows what's up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nzqqh/hi_rbitcoin_i_am_dorian_nakamoto_ama/cvsyyjg

Quote
I thought it was a wonderful concept for our global transaction based on fully meshed internet world. Distributed processing vs. centralization. More robust. And the purpose to serve the people even down to the poor rather than the profit base, open source software, ... Best financial invention in this uncertain dollar based or the next exchange based competition.

Note the emphasis against centralisation.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
A Pre-emptive strike!
Nope, the cap has changed several times. It's there because transactions are included under cost so it's a trivial and cheap DoS attack to just fill up blocks until miners and nodes just give up.

It's a known fact that subsidy will continue dropping until either this changes (txs being included under cost) or Bitcoin fails (because it currently depends on subsidisation).

Yes they are, and if you want to believe that mike, gavin, XT and BIP101 had nothing to do with making that happen sooner rather than later, then feel free.

Gavin and Mike have obviously been delaying all development with their nonsense. Lots of people have been distracted by this bullshit. They have certainly slowed down my contribution in a number of projects. The Core devs that have been contributing during the last couple of years (not Gavin or Mikey, who have done fuck-all in Core or anything outside of their personal projects) have been forced to waste their time because of the attack threats and the lobbying.

Either way it doesn't matter, provided the increase happens in time to ensure that block size can grow naturally, then everyone is happy right? We all win right?

If we need to increase block sizes more rather than less because other preferable scalability solutions have been stalled, then in fact we're worse off. However, it's not possible to know the exact degree of the damage the cancers have caused.

The silver lining is that they are well and truly ostracised from development, which is a great thing for Bitcoin. They can go back to work in some stupid kickstarter clone or whatever is more appropriate for them to do.

The silent sobbing is real.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3n18en/mike_hearn_banned_from_bitcoindev_sept29/




When all you have is a ban hammer everything starts to look like a nail.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
Quote
Is false, it affects solo miners, not pool miners.

Just like the US has jurisdiction of internet censorship across the world as long as it involves US in any way? (They can make up things along the way since it is not set in stone what constitutes involvement). The pool being just a service can be shut down but another one will start as long as the barrier of entry is relatively small. Increasing blocksize increases the barrier of entry for pools.

So what you say is true only for pooled miners. But the effect of bigger blocks needs to be considered on how it affects pools ability to remain a viable business because of reduced security margins and having to compete with bigger pools effective monopoly (centralized mining).

Although anonymity doesn't matter for pooled miners as much as solo miners, it will create centralization through creating pooling monopolies which will share header->header information and drive out smaller competitors. Also they are not validating blocks in that case either which is supposed to be ultimate priority of miners.

If we have pool monopolies and regulation risks on solo miners we run the risk of losing decentralization of mining on the network.

"I don't think so"

 Cheesy
Grin Good call.
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