Author

Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 207. (Read 378996 times)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
And the average block is still less than half full.
lol, there were full block all past days Smiley
I'm sure that you have a lot of altcoin little troll.

Yes, there have been some full blocks.

And yet, the *AVERAGE* block is still less than half full.

Sell your false sense of urgency somewhere else.  We aren't buying into the panic over backlogs or the rush to bloat blocks.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
And the average block is still less than half full.
lol, there were full block all past days Smiley
I'm sure that you have a lot of altcoin little troll.

What is the issue with full blocks? Are you suggesting these were full of legitimate prioritized transactions and not the result of spam?

It was discussed since 2010. Not sure I see your point.
You are right, I was here, but it did return on scene with different discussion on 2013.
The real problem is that if someone has a business plan that it depends by not solving a problem, it's easy that it will take a loooong time.

Do you have concrete proof of what you are inferring?
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
And the average block is still less than half full.
lol, there were full block all past days Smiley
I'm sure that you have a lot of altcoin little troll.

It was discussed since 2010. Not sure I see your point.
You are right, I was here, but it did return on scene with different discussions on the 2013.
The real problem is that if someone has a business plan that it depends by not solving a problem, it's easy that it will take a loooong time.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
The problem is discussed from the 2013 Roll Eyes

And the average block is still less than half full.

Sell your false sense of urgency somewhere else.  We aren't buying into the panic over backlogs or the rush to bloat blocks.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
Earn with impressio.io
The problem is discussed from the 2013 Roll Eyes

And the problem of the blocks filling up and high transaction fees still hasn't happened.  In fact, the biggest problem today versus 2013 is coinbase rewards being higher than tx fees, leading to higher centralization.
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
The problem is discussed from the 2013 Roll Eyes

It was discussed since 2010. Not sure I see your point.
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
The problem is discussed from the 2013 Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1196
STOP SNITCHIN'
...

Also, but the sole responsible is Core devs not delivering what the market asks in a timely manner.


How have you helped to develop a solution?  The devs have volunteered for years.  New developers continue to be welcome.  People who do not contribute to development while whining about the devs not meeting their perception of how fast a solution should be designed, developed, tested, peer reviewed and deployed contribute nothing.


+1

most of this debate = "not fast enough, need solution implemented yesterday"
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
Earn with impressio.io
...

Also, but the sole responsible is Core devs not delivering what the market asks in a timely manner.


How have you helped to develop a solution?  The devs have volunteered for years.  New developers continue to be welcome.  People who do not contribute to development while whining about the devs not meeting their perception of how fast a solution should be designed, developed, tested, peer reviewed and deployed contribute nothing.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
Earn with impressio.io
Again it's not dishonest.
It is, try to read once more. Your arguments have nothing to do with what poeEDgar has said.

Their inactions are speaking louder than their actions. If they would have been really honest in solving the block size issue in a timely matter they would have communicated a clear path for doing so. Which they didn't.

THAT is either dishonest or incompetent.  
Inaction? brg444 has given you a summary of what has been done by them in the recent years for Bitcoin scalability.
Jesus Christ, why are they gathering in Montreal in two weeks then? Because they are dishonest or incompetent? Or maybe to try to find a solution?

It gets really pathetic.

Ok so where is the deadline then for those solutions then? Because it all come to this.
Deadline for implementing a yet-nonexistent solution -- that boggles my mind. I hope you understand what you are writing.

Your suggested feel of urgency only means that anyone can feed you anything pretending to scale Bitcoin and you will be happy to eat it. In this case, I see no point in continuing arguing with you.

Having a clear scalability path in a clear time frame is what all of the big businesses need. Too bad you and Core are just too blind to see this but we are now facing the consequences. Now face it.

It will likely go down like this:

1. Sep-Oct Devs will pick one of the solutions they have been talking about.
2. They will develop detailed plans.
3. They will test it rigorously and subject it to peer review.
4. They will plan its deployment, and announce the date of the fork.
5. January 1st will hit, and XT will be clearly rejected. 
6. The solution will go live.
6. Hearn, Gavin and their puppets will be remembered as obstacles in the process, never to be trusted or respected.
 
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 1142
Ιntergalactic Conciliator
i think this project is official dead.
0 blocks the last 24 hours
600 nodes now 170 less from yesterday
Epic Fail Gavin
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
Having a clear scalability path in a clear time frame is what all of the big businesses need. Too bad you and Core are just too blind to see this but we are now facing the consequences. Now face it.

Bitcoin is about decentralized, transferable value. That's what is important. Keeping that system robust is paramount. Security and consensus come first. What a few corporate executives think should have no bearing on that.

It goes like this: adoption --> scaling. We are missing the first part.

Maybe you should understand that for big businesses it goes like this:

System that guarantees scaling  --> marketeer (which cost money)  --> adoption

Not the other way around.

That's not logical. There is no logical reason why an increased block size limit will encourage adoption. It could enable more transactions per block, sure. That has nothing to do with what you're suggesting. I can increase the size of my bed. Doesn't mean I can expect an ever-increasing number of women to get in it, simply because there is more room. (In fact, there may be unexpected problems. Someone may notice all the unused space in my ever-larger bed, and start using it for storage or other activities that =/= my original intention of getting women in my bed)

Regardless, what a few corporate executives think means nothing, particularly if their ideas threaten the robustness of bitcoin. I don't care how they want to market their products -- bitcoin will be adopted because it is a decentralized, transferable form of money, with or without them. Bitcoin is not a product. We are not dependent on companies marketing it.

The question is, to what extent does adoption warrant scaling? And how can we do that responsibly, keeping the network secure?

It might not make sense to you but from any investors perspective it makes tons of sense. You might not care about what they think but be sure that they don't care about what you think either and they have deeper pockets than you. You are delusional if you think adoption will happen by "itself" because of "decentralization". The poeple on the street doesn't give a damn about this.

And yes, bitcoin IS a product.

Interesting. Which company manufactured bitcoin? Pretty sure that six years ago, the bitcoin "network" consisted of one, and later, a few people. So you are telling me that adoption to this point was due to some corporate advertising campaign? Which one?

They may have deep pockets, but if their plan is to push an agenda that is at odds with the majority of devs and miners, good luck. They'd be better off buying up the hashing power required to subvert consensus.

I don't think asking for a clear path of scalability should goes against the majority of miners and devs. It is just logic do to so to attrack investors at large. Putting a time frame for decision making =!  to do it wrecklessly.

This is not an adequate argument. If there is a clear path for scaling, it is not apparent at this time. Nobody gives a shit about attracting investors -- that is not the purpose of bitcoin. We need to keep bitcoin robust and secure. And making an arbitrary time limit for protocol changes that threaten security is destructive.

There is nothing destructive about elaborating a strategy. What is destructive is having none.

Please see the bolded.

Then I guess you are happy by the actual situation.

Happy? No. Panicking about the apocalypse of full blocks a year from now? No.

Concerned about how scaling will affect network security? Yes.

Let's talk about it.

I understand what you mean but on the other side there are poeple with money at stack that are concerned about 1 mb blocks being full. Ignoring concerns of others by thinking yours are more important is not the way to have a dialogue and achieving consensus.


Ah, but 1MB blocks are not full. And there are many concerns, held by many stakeholders, to be discussed. I don't believe I am ignoring the concerns of others at all. I, and many others have quite a lot of money at stake. Indeed, I am trying hard in the face of a lot of dishonest arguments to have a real discussion.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Having a clear scalability path in a clear time frame is what all of the big businesses need. Too bad you and Core are just too blind to see this but we are now facing the consequences. Now face it.

Bitcoin is about decentralized, transferable value. That's what is important. Keeping that system robust is paramount. Security and consensus come first. What a few corporate executives think should have no bearing on that.

It goes like this: adoption --> scaling. We are missing the first part.

Maybe you should understand that for big businesses it goes like this:

System that guarantees scaling  --> marketeer (which cost money)  --> adoption

Not the other way around.

That's not logical. There is no logical reason why an increased block size limit will encourage adoption. It could enable more transactions per block, sure. That has nothing to do with what you're suggesting. I can increase the size of my bed. Doesn't mean I can expect an ever-increasing number of women to get in it, simply because there is more room. (In fact, there may be unexpected problems. Someone may notice all the unused space in my ever-larger bed, and start using it for storage or other activities that =/= my original intention of getting women in my bed)

Regardless, what a few corporate executives think means nothing, particularly if their ideas threaten the robustness of bitcoin. I don't care how they want to market their products -- bitcoin will be adopted because it is a decentralized, transferable form of money, with or without them. Bitcoin is not a product. We are not dependent on companies marketing it.

The question is, to what extent does adoption warrant scaling? And how can we do that responsibly, keeping the network secure?

It might not make sense to you but from any investors perspective it makes tons of sense. You might not care about what they think but be sure that they don't care about what you think either and they have deeper pockets than you. You are delusional if you think adoption will happen by "itself" because of "decentralization". The poeple on the street doesn't give a damn about this.

And yes, bitcoin IS a product.

Interesting. Which company manufactured bitcoin? Pretty sure that six years ago, the bitcoin "network" consisted of one, and later, a few people. So you are telling me that adoption to this point was due to some corporate advertising campaign? Which one?

They may have deep pockets, but if their plan is to push an agenda that is at odds with the majority of devs and miners, good luck. They'd be better off buying up the hashing power required to subvert consensus.

I don't think asking for a clear path of scalability should goes against the majority of miners and devs. It is just logic do to so to attrack investors at large. Putting a time frame for decision making =!  to do it wrecklessly.

This is not an adequate argument. If there is a clear path for scaling, it is not apparent at this time. Nobody gives a shit about attracting investors -- that is not the purpose of bitcoin. We need to keep bitcoin robust and secure. And making an arbitrary time limit for protocol changes that threaten security is destructive.

There is nothing destructive about elaborating a strategy. What is destructive is having none.

Please see the bolded.

Then I guess you are happy by the actual situation.

Happy? No. Panicking about the apocalypse of full blocks a year from now? No.

Concerned about how scaling will affect network security? Yes.

Let's talk about it.

I understand what you mean but on the other side there are poeple with money at stack that are concerned about 1 mb blocks being full. Ignoring concerns of others by thinking yours are more important is not the way to have a dialogue and achieving consensus.
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
Having a clear scalability path in a clear time frame is what all of the big businesses need. Too bad you and Core are just too blind to see this but we are now facing the consequences. Now face it.

Bitcoin is about decentralized, transferable value. That's what is important. Keeping that system robust is paramount. Security and consensus come first. What a few corporate executives think should have no bearing on that.

It goes like this: adoption --> scaling. We are missing the first part.

Maybe you should understand that for big businesses it goes like this:

System that guarantees scaling  --> marketeer (which cost money)  --> adoption

Not the other way around.

That's not logical. There is no logical reason why an increased block size limit will encourage adoption. It could enable more transactions per block, sure. That has nothing to do with what you're suggesting. I can increase the size of my bed. Doesn't mean I can expect an ever-increasing number of women to get in it, simply because there is more room. (In fact, there may be unexpected problems. Someone may notice all the unused space in my ever-larger bed, and start using it for storage or other activities that =/= my original intention of getting women in my bed)

Regardless, what a few corporate executives think means nothing, particularly if their ideas threaten the robustness of bitcoin. I don't care how they want to market their products -- bitcoin will be adopted because it is a decentralized, transferable form of money, with or without them. Bitcoin is not a product. We are not dependent on companies marketing it.

The question is, to what extent does adoption warrant scaling? And how can we do that responsibly, keeping the network secure?

It might not make sense to you but from any investors perspective it makes tons of sense. You might not care about what they think but be sure that they don't care about what you think either and they have deeper pockets than you. You are delusional if you think adoption will happen by "itself" because of "decentralization". The poeple on the street doesn't give a damn about this.

And yes, bitcoin IS a product.

Interesting. Which company manufactured bitcoin? Pretty sure that six years ago, the bitcoin "network" consisted of one, and later, a few people. So you are telling me that adoption to this point was due to some corporate advertising campaign? Which one?

They may have deep pockets, but if their plan is to push an agenda that is at odds with the majority of devs and miners, good luck. They'd be better off buying up the hashing power required to subvert consensus.

I don't think asking for a clear path of scalability should goes against the majority of miners and devs. It is just logic do to so to attrack investors at large. Putting a time frame for decision making =!  to do it wrecklessly.

This is not an adequate argument. If there is a clear path for scaling, it is not apparent at this time. Nobody gives a shit about attracting investors -- that is not the purpose of bitcoin. We need to keep bitcoin robust and secure. And making an arbitrary time limit for protocol changes that threaten security is destructive.

There is nothing destructive about elaborating a strategy. What is destructive is having none.

Please see the bolded.

Then I guess you are happy by the actual situation.

Happy? No. Panicking about the apocalypse of full blocks a year from now? No.

Concerned about how scaling will affect network security? Yes.

Let's talk about it.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Having a clear scalability path in a clear time frame is what all of the big businesses need. Too bad you and Core are just too blind to see this but we are now facing the consequences. Now face it.

Bitcoin is about decentralized, transferable value. That's what is important. Keeping that system robust is paramount. Security and consensus come first. What a few corporate executives think should have no bearing on that.

It goes like this: adoption --> scaling. We are missing the first part.

Maybe you should understand that for big businesses it goes like this:

System that guarantees scaling  --> marketeer (which cost money)  --> adoption

Not the other way around.

That's not logical. There is no logical reason why an increased block size limit will encourage adoption. It could enable more transactions per block, sure. That has nothing to do with what you're suggesting. I can increase the size of my bed. Doesn't mean I can expect an ever-increasing number of women to get in it, simply because there is more room. (In fact, there may be unexpected problems. Someone may notice all the unused space in my ever-larger bed, and start using it for storage or other activities that =/= my original intention of getting women in my bed)

Regardless, what a few corporate executives think means nothing, particularly if their ideas threaten the robustness of bitcoin. I don't care how they want to market their products -- bitcoin will be adopted because it is a decentralized, transferable form of money, with or without them. Bitcoin is not a product. We are not dependent on companies marketing it.

The question is, to what extent does adoption warrant scaling? And how can we do that responsibly, keeping the network secure?

It might not make sense to you but from any investors perspective it makes tons of sense. You might not care about what they think but be sure that they don't care about what you think either and they have deeper pockets than you. You are delusional if you think adoption will happen by "itself" because of "decentralization". The poeple on the street doesn't give a damn about this.

And yes, bitcoin IS a product.

Interesting. Which company manufactured bitcoin? Pretty sure that six years ago, the bitcoin "network" consisted of one, and later, a few people. So you are telling me that adoption to this point was due to some corporate advertising campaign? Which one?

They may have deep pockets, but if their plan is to push an agenda that is at odds with the majority of devs and miners, good luck. They'd be better off buying up the hashing power required to subvert consensus.

I don't think asking for a clear path of scalability should goes against the majority of miners and devs. It is just logic do to so to attrack investors at large. Putting a time frame for decision making =!  to do it wrecklessly.

This is not an adequate argument. If there is a clear path for scaling, it is not apparent at this time. Nobody gives a shit about attracting investors -- that is not the purpose of bitcoin. We need to keep bitcoin robust and secure. And making an arbitrary time limit for protocol changes that threaten security is destructive.

There is nothing destructive about elaborating a strategy. What is destructive is having none.

Please see the bolded.

Then I guess you are happy by the actual situation.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 3191
Leave no FUD unchallenged
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
There is nothing destructive about elaborating a strategy. What is destructive is having none.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Having no clear strategy from Core devs is the exact reason why all this is happening.
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
Having a clear scalability path in a clear time frame is what all of the big businesses need. Too bad you and Core are just too blind to see this but we are now facing the consequences. Now face it.

Bitcoin is about decentralized, transferable value. That's what is important. Keeping that system robust is paramount. Security and consensus come first. What a few corporate executives think should have no bearing on that.

It goes like this: adoption --> scaling. We are missing the first part.

Maybe you should understand that for big businesses it goes like this:

System that guarantees scaling  --> marketeer (which cost money)  --> adoption

Not the other way around.

That's not logical. There is no logical reason why an increased block size limit will encourage adoption. It could enable more transactions per block, sure. That has nothing to do with what you're suggesting. I can increase the size of my bed. Doesn't mean I can expect an ever-increasing number of women to get in it, simply because there is more room. (In fact, there may be unexpected problems. Someone may notice all the unused space in my ever-larger bed, and start using it for storage or other activities that =/= my original intention of getting women in my bed)

Regardless, what a few corporate executives think means nothing, particularly if their ideas threaten the robustness of bitcoin. I don't care how they want to market their products -- bitcoin will be adopted because it is a decentralized, transferable form of money, with or without them. Bitcoin is not a product. We are not dependent on companies marketing it.

The question is, to what extent does adoption warrant scaling? And how can we do that responsibly, keeping the network secure?

It might not make sense to you but from any investors perspective it makes tons of sense. You might not care about what they think but be sure that they don't care about what you think either and they have deeper pockets than you. You are delusional if you think adoption will happen by "itself" because of "decentralization". The poeple on the street doesn't give a damn about this.

And yes, bitcoin IS a product.

Interesting. Which company manufactured bitcoin? Pretty sure that six years ago, the bitcoin "network" consisted of one, and later, a few people. So you are telling me that adoption to this point was due to some corporate advertising campaign? Which one?

They may have deep pockets, but if their plan is to push an agenda that is at odds with the majority of devs and miners, good luck. They'd be better off buying up the hashing power required to subvert consensus.

I don't think asking for a clear path of scalability should goes against the majority of miners and devs. It is just logic do to so to attrack investors at large. Putting a time frame for decision making =!  to do it wrecklessly.

This is not an adequate argument. If there is a clear path for scaling, it is not apparent at this time. Nobody gives a shit about attracting investors -- that is not the purpose of bitcoin. We need to keep bitcoin robust and secure. And making an arbitrary time limit for protocol changes that threaten security is destructive.

There is nothing destructive about elaborating a strategy. What is destructive is having none.

Please see the bolded.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
There is nothing destructive about elaborating a strategy. What is destructive is having none.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Having a clear scalability path in a clear time frame is what all of the big businesses need. Too bad you and Core are just too blind to see this but we are now facing the consequences. Now face it.

Bitcoin is about decentralized, transferable value. That's what is important. Keeping that system robust is paramount. Security and consensus come first. What a few corporate executives think should have no bearing on that.

It goes like this: adoption --> scaling. We are missing the first part.

Maybe you should understand that for big businesses it goes like this:

System that guarantees scaling  --> marketeer (which cost money)  --> adoption

Not the other way around.

That's not logical. There is no logical reason why an increased block size limit will encourage adoption. It could enable more transactions per block, sure. That has nothing to do with what you're suggesting. I can increase the size of my bed. Doesn't mean I can expect an ever-increasing number of women to get in it, simply because there is more room. (In fact, there may be unexpected problems. Someone may notice all the unused space in my ever-larger bed, and start using it for storage or other activities that =/= my original intention of getting women in my bed)

Regardless, what a few corporate executives think means nothing, particularly if their ideas threaten the robustness of bitcoin. I don't care how they want to market their products -- bitcoin will be adopted because it is a decentralized, transferable form of money, with or without them. Bitcoin is not a product. We are not dependent on companies marketing it.

The question is, to what extent does adoption warrant scaling? And how can we do that responsibly, keeping the network secure?

It might not make sense to you but from any investors perspective it makes tons of sense. You might not care about what they think but be sure that they don't care about what you think either and they have deeper pockets than you. You are delusional if you think adoption will happen by "itself" because of "decentralization". The poeple on the street doesn't give a damn about this.

And yes, bitcoin IS a product.

Interesting. Which company manufactured bitcoin? Pretty sure that six years ago, the bitcoin "network" consisted of one, and later, a few people. So you are telling me that adoption to this point was due to some corporate advertising campaign? Which one?

They may have deep pockets, but if their plan is to push an agenda that is at odds with the majority of devs and miners, good luck. They'd be better off buying up the hashing power required to subvert consensus.

I don't think asking for a clear path of scalability should goes against the majority of miners and devs. It is just logic do to so to attrack investors at large. Putting a time frame for decision making =!  to do it wrecklessly.

This is not an adequate argument. If there is a clear path for scaling, it is not apparent at this time. Nobody gives a shit about attracting investors -- that is not the purpose of bitcoin. We need to keep bitcoin robust and secure. And making an arbitrary time limit for protocol changes that threaten security is destructive.

There is nothing destructive about elaborating a strategy. What is destructive is having none.
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