Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 91.

muyuu

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Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 06:32:03 PM

I kinda like the idea since it very clearly refutes any of the shills pretense that us "small blockers" do not want to let the "free market" operate.

The argument goes like this: since the free market of peers dictates what code determines consensus then it should follow that any parameter within Bitcoin is a subset of a "free market" decision.

I would agree it is quite a stretch but what concept that comes out of twisted XT shills' mind isn't? Cheesy

So 1MB it is, says the free-market!

Exactly, but it's either politburo or the free market, depending on the argument suiting their view or not. It's really something else with these people.

There is no free market about the protocol, for better or worse. For better IMO, because having essential properties of Bitcoin change to the whim of people would make it absolutely shit money. Thus the importance of libconsensus, and not confusing implementation variety with the actual protocol. And when talking about code variety, XT is absolutely a minor factor at since it's a minimal-work fork, unlike libbitcoin for instance which is a major one.

Cconvert2G36

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Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 06:32:03 PM

Quote from: muyuu on November 12, 2015, 06:17:51 PM

To say the block reward is market-set is beyond idiotic. There is no effective market mechanism doing that, by design. The protocol does.

I kinda like the idea since it very clearly refutes any of the shills pretense that us "small blockers" do not want to let the "free market" operate.

The argument goes like this: since the free market of peers dictates what code determines consensus then it should follow that any parameter within Bitcoin is a subset of a "free market" decision.

I would agree it is quite a stretch but what concept that comes out of twisted XT shills' mind isn't? Cheesy

So 1MB it is, says the free-market!

The block reward schedule is overwhelmingly agreed upon by the market, through their decision to run software which implements it. They are also highly incentivized to not change it, as it would be disastrous to their current and future earning potential. Node operators are similarly incentivized to keep the schedule because altering it would be disastrous to the value of their holdings. Higher transaction capacity through larger blocks has another set of incentives and risks.

brg444 demonstrates this is the case using another metric, the max block size. Right now, the market is indeed coalesced around 1MB max blocks.

This veneer that a small cabal can wield a magic wand to protect us from ourselves is illusory, and to some, very undesirable. If Bitcoin relies on a handful of people controlling things from the top down, then it's a failure. The beauty of satoshi's idea is that it harnesses mutual self interest incentive structures to function and evolve. If the vast majority of nodes and miners decide to run software that enforces 1MB max blocks, then 1MB max blocks we shall have.

VeritasSapere

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Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: muyuu on November 12, 2015, 06:17:51 PM

To say the block reward is market-set is beyond idiotic. There is no effective market mechanism doing that, by design. The protocol does.

The block reward is set by the protocol which is decided on by the free market, the market is incentivized not to change the block reward, this is why and how Bitcoin works.

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 06:32:03 PM

The argument goes like this: since the free market of peers dictates what code determines consensus then it should follow that any parameter within Bitcoin is a subset of a "free market" decision.

Agreed.

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 06:32:03 PM

So 1MB it is, says the free-market!

Agreed, until the free market decides that it wants to increase the blocksize, the incentive to do so will align more as the blocks continue to grow. Since rendering transactions unreliable and increasing the cost of transactions is not necessarily in the best interests of the network as a whole.

brg444

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Activity: 644

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: muyuu on November 12, 2015, 06:17:51 PM

To say the block reward is market-set is beyond idiotic. There is no effective market mechanism doing that, by design. The protocol does.

I kinda like the idea since it very clearly refutes any of the shills pretense that us "small blockers" do not want to let the "free market" operate.

The argument goes like this: since the free market of peers dictates what code determines consensus then it should follow that any parameter within Bitcoin is a subset of a "free market" decision.

I would agree it is quite a stretch but what concept that comes out of twisted XT shills' mind isn't? Cheesy

So 1MB it is, says the free-market!

muyuu

donator

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

To say the block reward is market-set is beyond idiotic. There is no effective market mechanism doing that, by design. The protocol does.

Cconvert2G36

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: hdbuck on November 12, 2015, 04:57:43 PM

Quote from: Zarathustra on November 12, 2015, 04:55:16 PM

Quote from: hdbuck on November 12, 2015, 04:47:00 PM

Quote from: Peter R on November 12, 2015, 04:36:28 PM

...

The inflation rate is already governed by the market. The market is entirely happy with the 25 BTC block rewards. I also strongly suspect that the market will reduce the block reward to 12.5 BTC at the scheduled halving next summer.

not the market you dummy.. the protocol.
the very same that you cant change with your stupid gif.

The market defines the protocol. One small dev team is not the market.

lel nope. try again.
im done explaining such basics to you idiot.

Another gem from the hdbuck school of rational debate. How deep does this mine go?

With friends like this...

TooDumbForBitcoin

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Activity: 1638

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Quote from: muyuu on November 12, 2015, 05:47:45 PM

Learn to quote properly, don't be so fucking lazy.

I think the brg44 school of creative quoting is having a 10% off coupon this week.

muyuu

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Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Learn to quote properly, don't be so fucking lazy.

VeritasSapere

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Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: Zarathustra on November 12, 2015, 05:22:52 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 05:05:23 PM

Even BIP101 is within the Bitcoin improvement proposal scheme, that does not mean it will be implemented however. The fact is that none of the BIP proposals that intend to increase the blocksize have been implemented by Core and no definitive plans have been made by Core to implement any of these proposals in the future. Since Wladimir does have the final say in terms of what gets implemented into Core regardless of what anyone else thinks. So please refrain from calling me a liar, since even if I am wrong, if I am sincere I am not a liar. Calling me a liar implies that you know my intention and motivation which you do not, so please stop, since you are only making yourself look foolish by resorting to such attacks.

They are not able to realize their self-destruction with this kind of 'discussion'. As if notorious name calling ever could convince the community.

Not an intelligent community like the Bitcoin community at least, plenty of fascist dictatorships of the past have risen through just "name calling". I am confident however that the incentives of the Bitcoin protocol will align so that the blocksize will be increased one way or another, with or without Core, Bitcoin will be triumphant.

Decentralization and freedom for the world if that is what we choose. We will always have the choice no matter what happens now, governments can suppress many things but eventually the progress of technology is something they can not reverse no matter how hard they might try.

Zarathustra

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Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 05:05:23 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:43:24 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:34:44 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:01 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:20:01 PM

Quote from: Lauda on November 12, 2015, 04:11:14 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:02:50 PM

The fact is that Core has not increased the blocksize and they have no plan in place to do so either. What you are saying does not change this reality.

What kind of fact is that? Even if they thought so, they aren't allowed to change their mind? Very weird thinking.

The fact is that right now Core will not increase the blocksize and they have not publicly stated their definitive plans to do so. It is strange that you find it so difficult to acknowledge this fact.

More disgusting lies Angry

Shame on you.

Please enlighten me and show where the Core development team has officially stated that they will definitely increase the blocksize. Has the Code been written and implemented? What is the date for increasing the blocksize and by how much will it be increased? I would presume this code is already active in the latest version of Core then? Show me evidence of this, I am waiting?

I presume you are unable to provide evidence to the contrary, so please refrain from unjustly calling me a liar then, thank you.

Now will you please fork off Angry

Even BIP101 is within the Bitcoin improvement proposal scheme, that does not mean it will be implemented however. The fact is that none of the BIP proposals that intend to increase the blocksize have been implemented by Core and no definitive plans have been made by Core to implement any of these proposals in the future. Since Wladimir does have the final say in terms of what gets implemented into Core regardless of what anyone else thinks. So please refrain from calling me a liar, since even if I am wrong, if I am sincere I am not a liar. Calling me a liar implies that you know my intention and motivation which you do not, so please stop, since you are only making yourself look foolish by resorting to such attacks.

They are not able to realize their self-destruction with this kind of 'discussion'. As if notorious name calling ever could convince the community.

VeritasSapere

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 05:12:02 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 05:05:23 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:43:24 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:34:44 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:01 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:20:01 PM

Quote from: Lauda on November 12, 2015, 04:11:14 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:02:50 PM

The fact is that Core has not increased the blocksize and they have no plan in place to do so either. What you are saying does not change this reality.

What kind of fact is that? Even if they thought so, they aren't allowed to change their mind? Very weird thinking.

The fact is that right now Core will not increase the blocksize and they have not publicly stated their definitive plans to do so. It is strange that you find it so difficult to acknowledge this fact.

More disgusting lies Angry

Shame on you.

Please enlighten me and show where the Core development team has officially stated that they will definitely increase the blocksize. Has the Code been written and implemented? What is the date for increasing the blocksize and by how much will it be increased? I would presume this code is already active in the latest version of Core then? Show me evidence of this, I am waiting?

I presume you are unable to provide evidence to the contrary, so please refrain from unjustly calling me a liar then, thank you.

Now will you please fork off Angry

Even BIP101 is within the Bitcoin improvement proposal scheme, that does not mean it will be implemented however. The fact is that none of the BIP proposals that intend to increase the blocksize have been implemented by Core and no definitive plans have been made by Core to implement any of these proposals in the future. Since Wladimir does have the final say in terms of what gets implemented into Core regardless of what anyone else thinks. So please refrain from calling me a liar, since even if I am wrong, if I am sincere I am not a liar. Calling me a liar implies that you know my intention and motivation which you do not, so please stop, since you are only making yourself look foolish by resorting to such attacks.

I do know your intentions, it is to manipulate and lie your way out of things. A perfect little puppet of your master Mike Hearn, olympic champion of deception.

Fork off my thread now would ya?

You should have maybe started this thread on Reddit instead then, that way you could have censored all dissenting opinion. Bitcointalk is supposed to be a place for free discussion, so I will continue to express myself here, present my theories and counter opposing arguments.

Zarathustra

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Activity: 1162

Merit: 1004

Quote from: hdbuck on November 12, 2015, 04:57:43 PM

Quote from: Zarathustra on November 12, 2015, 04:55:16 PM

Quote from: hdbuck on November 12, 2015, 04:47:00 PM

Quote from: Peter R on November 12, 2015, 04:36:28 PM

...

The inflation rate is already governed by the market. The market is entirely happy with the 25 BTC block rewards. I also strongly suspect that the market will reduce the block reward to 12.5 BTC at the scheduled halving next summer.

not the market you dummy.. the protocol.
the very same that you cant change with your stupid gif.

The market defines the protocol. One small dev team is not the market.

lel nope. try again.
im done explaining such basics to you idiot.

It's the economy, stupid. It's not your Politbüro.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 05:05:23 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:43:24 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:34:44 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:01 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:20:01 PM

Quote from: Lauda on November 12, 2015, 04:11:14 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:02:50 PM

The fact is that Core has not increased the blocksize and they have no plan in place to do so either. What you are saying does not change this reality.

What kind of fact is that? Even if they thought so, they aren't allowed to change their mind? Very weird thinking.

The fact is that right now Core will not increase the blocksize and they have not publicly stated their definitive plans to do so. It is strange that you find it so difficult to acknowledge this fact.

More disgusting lies Angry

Shame on you.

Please enlighten me and show where the Core development team has officially stated that they will definitely increase the blocksize. Has the Code been written and implemented? What is the date for increasing the blocksize and by how much will it be increased? I would presume this code is already active in the latest version of Core then? Show me evidence of this, I am waiting?

I presume you are unable to provide evidence to the contrary, so please refrain from unjustly calling me a liar then, thank you.

Now will you please fork off Angry

Even BIP101 is within the Bitcoin improvement proposal scheme, that does not mean it will be implemented however. The fact is that none of the BIP proposals that intend to increase the blocksize have been implemented by Core and no definitive plans have been made by Core to implement any of these proposals in the future. Since Wladimir does have the final say in terms of what gets implemented into Core regardless of what anyone else thinks. So please refrain from calling me a liar, since even if I am wrong, if I am sincere I am not a liar. Calling me a liar implies that you know my intention and motivation which you do not, so please stop, since you are only making yourself look foolish by resorting to such attacks.

I do know your intentions, it is to manipulate and lie your way out of things. A perfect little puppet of your master Mike Hearn, olympic champion of deception.

Fork off my thread now would ya?

Peter R

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Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Quote from: hdbuck on November 12, 2015, 05:05:00 PM

to the 4 shills, thx for the night banter, been a while since we did not make such fun at you loosers.

im out, night ladies.

Sweet dreams and stay loose my friend Wink

VeritasSapere

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:43:24 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:34:44 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:01 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:20:01 PM

Quote from: Lauda on November 12, 2015, 04:11:14 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on November 12, 2015, 04:02:50 PM

The fact is that Core has not increased the blocksize and they have no plan in place to do so either. What you are saying does not change this reality.

What kind of fact is that? Even if they thought so, they aren't allowed to change their mind? Very weird thinking.

The fact is that right now Core will not increase the blocksize and they have not publicly stated their definitive plans to do so. It is strange that you find it so difficult to acknowledge this fact.

More disgusting lies Angry

Shame on you.

Please enlighten me and show where the Core development team has officially stated that they will definitely increase the blocksize. Has the Code been written and implemented? What is the date for increasing the blocksize and by how much will it be increased? I would presume this code is already active in the latest version of Core then? Show me evidence of this, I am waiting?

I presume you are unable to provide evidence to the contrary, so please refrain from unjustly calling me a liar then, thank you.

Now will you please fork off Angry

Even BIP101 is within the Bitcoin improvement proposal scheme, that does not mean it will be implemented however. The fact is that none of the BIP proposals that intend to increase the blocksize have been implemented by Core and no definitive plans have been made by Core to implement any of these proposals in the future. Since Wladimir does have the final say in terms of what gets implemented into Core regardless of what anyone else thinks. So please refrain from calling me a liar, since even if I am wrong, if I am sincere I am not a liar. Calling me a liar implies that you know my intention and motivation which you do not, so please stop, since you are only making yourself look foolish by resorting to such attacks.

hdbuck

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1002

Quote from: muyuu on November 12, 2015, 04:58:45 PM

LOL the graph that is logarithmic in the axis but linear in the colour, that one is not quite as laughable as the made up scenario but still a good chuckle. RED ALERT haha.

What a charlatan. Peter R. Rizun.

meheh, besides much 'exponential' curve there..

Quote from: Peter R on November 12, 2015, 04:48:25 PM

The block size has been growing ~exponentially

to the 4 shills, thx for the night banter, been a while since we did not make such fun at you loosers.

im out, night ladies.

Zarathustra

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1004

Quote from: Lauda on November 12, 2015, 04:51:13 PM

Quote from: Peter R on November 12, 2015, 04:40:48 PM

I dunno; ask the hundreds of people who up-voted it before it was deleted.

You mean either one of these two:
1) Hundreds of shill accounts up-voting;
2) Deluding the average Joe with false charts.

Which one is it?

Ah, an elitist who believes his opinion is worth more than that of hundreds average Joes.

muyuu

donator

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

LOL the graph that is logarithmic in the axis but linear in the colour, that one is not quite as laughable as the made up scenario but still a good chuckle. RED ALERT haha.

What a charlatan. Peter R. Rizun.

hdbuck

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Activity: 1260

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Zarathustra on November 12, 2015, 04:55:16 PM

Quote from: hdbuck on November 12, 2015, 04:47:00 PM

Quote from: Peter R on November 12, 2015, 04:36:28 PM

...

The inflation rate is already governed by the market. The market is entirely happy with the 25 BTC block rewards. I also strongly suspect that the market will reduce the block reward to 12.5 BTC at the scheduled halving next summer.

not the market you dummy.. the protocol.
the very same that you cant change with your stupid gif.

The market defines the protocol. One small dev team is not the market.

lel nope. try again.
im done explaining such basics to you idiot.

Zarathustra

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1004

Quote from: hdbuck on November 12, 2015, 04:47:00 PM

Quote from: Peter R on November 12, 2015, 04:36:28 PM

...

The inflation rate is already governed by the market. The market is entirely happy with the 25 BTC block rewards. I also strongly suspect that the market will reduce the block reward to 12.5 BTC at the scheduled halving next summer.

not the market you dummy.. the protocol.
the very same that you cant change with your stupid gif.

The market defines the protocol. One small dev team is not the market.

Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 91. (Read 378993 times)