Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 98.

hdbuck

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Quote from: muyuu on November 12, 2015, 06:08:02 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 12, 2015, 05:27:39 AM

However, you're right to say that consensus doesn't govern, supermajority does. Who represents the supermajority opinion in the transaction scaling debate? It's not the BIP101/XT contingent, is it? Are you really going to try to pretend that even 51% of Bitcoiners support your views? You're in the fringe, and will remain there.

I think it's even stricter than that. If dev and mining majorities both have a supermajority against something, it's definitely not going to happen whatever the rest of the Bitcoin space thinks about it.

Agreeing against something is considerably easier than agreeing to a concrete proposal.

also, the majority of nodes have/will reject such increase because it will simply drive their cost up..

and since they are the ones propagating the blocks, it is likely nothing will come up as to such matter if they would not get retribution of some sort in the first place.

so i dunno which planet these forkers live on.. with their conflated inabilities and authoritarian adorations.

if only they could really fork off tho.

muyuu

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 12, 2015, 05:27:39 AM

However, you're right to say that consensus doesn't govern, supermajority does. Who represents the supermajority opinion in the transaction scaling debate? It's not the BIP101/XT contingent, is it? Are you really going to try to pretend that even 51% of Bitcoiners support your views? You're in the fringe, and will remain there.

I think it's even stricter than that. If dev and mining majorities both have a supermajority against something, it's definitely not going to happen whatever the rest of the Bitcoin space thinks about it.

Agreeing against something is considerably easier than agreeing to a concrete proposal.

Zarathustra

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 12, 2015, 05:27:39 AM

Quote from: Zarathustra on November 12, 2015, 04:46:17 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 12, 2015, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: notbatman on November 12, 2015, 03:13:39 AM

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to. I don't believe the real force behind the XT push ever intended or believed it would gain adoption.

Beat the price of BTC down, FUD and "divide & conquer", mission accomplished.

Except that, in respect of the divide and conquer aspect, I don't think they've accomplished anything. The vast majority of XT supporters are sock-puppet shill accounts, and there aren't that many of them. So for now, there is only the appearance of split community.

It is not a community. These are communist fantasies and fairytales. A community is a selfsufficient, nuclear, consensus ruled Dunbar community. A society (interacting with aliens) is not based on consensus, but on power/force/forks and supermajority decision making. A capitalist society is ruled by economic and political competition and the power behind it: banning, openness, censoring, liberalism, totalitarianism and all those duopolist forces and tactics that compete against each other.

Well, it depends on which capitalist ideology you subscribe to. Margaret Thatcher famously said "There is no such thing as society".

However, you're right to say that consensus doesn't govern, supermajority does. Who represents the supermajority opinion in the transaction scaling debate? It's not the BIP101/XT contingent, is it? Are you really going to try to pretend that even 51% of Bitcoiners support your views? You're in the fringe, and will remain there.

The views of the Bitcoiners are changing from time to time. My view is that the supermajority will decide to leave the 1MB cap behind next year and that Gavin and BIP101 triggered the turning tide:

It wasn't a mistake. Gavin did the right thing by exerting exit pressure (XT) rather than voice pressure (staying in Core), because having one monolithic implementation has already become Bitcoin's weak point. People think XT needs to reach 75% of mining power for it to succeed, but it doesn't. It just needs to hang over Core's head. Exit pressure is stronger than voice pressure, and it helps crack the centralization weak point of Core. Short term, we suffer some pain due to delayed blocksize increase, but long term we are spared greater pain by entering billion or trillion dollar market caps without the millstone of centralized development. (Noosterdam)

The core of the core devs will be forced to finally present one proposal instead of trying to prolong the stalemate by presenting several 'proposals'.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: Zarathustra on November 12, 2015, 04:46:17 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 12, 2015, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: notbatman on November 12, 2015, 03:13:39 AM

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to. I don't believe the real force behind the XT push ever intended or believed it would gain adoption.

Beat the price of BTC down, FUD and "divide & conquer", mission accomplished.

Except that, in respect of the divide and conquer aspect, I don't think they've accomplished anything. The vast majority of XT supporters are sock-puppet shill accounts, and there aren't that many of them. So for now, there is only the appearance of split community.

It is not a community. These are communist fantasies and fairytales. A community is a selfsufficient, nuclear, consensus ruled Dunbar community. A society (interacting with aliens) is not based on consensus, but on power/force/forks and supermajority decision making. A capitalist society is ruled by economic and political competition and the power behind it: banning, openness, censoring, liberalism, totalitarianism and all those duopolist forces and tactics that compete against each other.

Well, it depends on which capitalist ideology you subscribe to. Margaret Thatcher famously said "There is no such thing as society".

However, you're right to say that consensus doesn't govern, supermajority does. Who represents the supermajority opinion in the transaction scaling debate? It's not the BIP101/XT contingent, is it? Are you really going to try to pretend that even 51% of Bitcoiners support your views? You're in the fringe, and will remain there.

bambou

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Quote from: Zarathustra on November 12, 2015, 04:46:17 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 12, 2015, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: notbatman on November 12, 2015, 03:13:39 AM

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to. I don't believe the real force behind the XT push ever intended or believed it would gain adoption.

Beat the price of BTC down, FUD and "divide & conquer", mission accomplished.

Except that, in respect of the divide and conquer aspect, I don't think they've accomplished anything. The vast majority of XT supporters are sock-puppet shill accounts, and there aren't that many of them. So for now, there is only the appearance of split community.

It is not a community. That are communist fantasies and fairytales. A community is a selfsufficient, nuclear, consensus ruled Dunbar community. A society (interacting with aliens) is not based on consensus, but on power/force/forks and supermajority decision making. A capitalist society is ruled by economic and political competition and the power behind it: banning, openness, censoring, liberalism, totalitarianism and all those duopolist forces and tactics that compete against each other.

Ahah. Whatever rocks your boat kiddo.

Zarathustra

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 12, 2015, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: notbatman on November 12, 2015, 03:13:39 AM

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to. I don't believe the real force behind the XT push ever intended or believed it would gain adoption.

Beat the price of BTC down, FUD and "divide & conquer", mission accomplished.

Except that, in respect of the divide and conquer aspect, I don't think they've accomplished anything. The vast majority of XT supporters are sock-puppet shill accounts, and there aren't that many of them. So for now, there is only the appearance of split community.

It is not a community. These are communist fantasies and fairytales. A community is a selfsufficient, nuclear, consensus ruled Dunbar community. A society (interacting with aliens) is not based on consensus, but on power/force/forks and supermajority decision making. A capitalist society is ruled by economic and political competition and the power behind it: banning, openness, censoring, liberalism, totalitarianism and all those duopolist forces and tactics that compete against each other.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: notbatman on November 12, 2015, 03:13:39 AM

Quote from: CoinSkipper on November 11, 2015, 07:41:43 PM

Bitcoin XT is basically a new bitcoin that is profitable for Coinbase. No one supported it from the beginning. No one will in the future. The original is the one and only, and no fake can best it. Bitcoin XT was never going to be a success, anyway.

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to. I don't believe the real force behind the XT push ever intended or believed it would gain adoption.

Beat the price of BTC down, FUD and "divide & conquer", mission accomplished.

The cost to reputation and credibility of Gavin and Mike H. has been significant. Instead of being merely suspicious behaviour they are now clearly in "cannot be trusted" basket. Not even "trust but verify" with those two, default position is "don't trust, don't even bother verifying".

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: notbatman on November 12, 2015, 03:13:39 AM

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to. I don't believe the real force behind the XT push ever intended or believed it would gain adoption.

Beat the price of BTC down, FUD and "divide & conquer", mission accomplished.

Except that, in respect of the divide and conquer aspect, I don't think they've accomplished anything. The vast majority of XT supporters are sock-puppet shill accounts, and there aren't that many of them. So for now, there is only the appearance of split community. Just a veneer.

Zarathustra

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Quote from: notbatman on November 12, 2015, 03:13:39 AM

Quote from: CoinSkipper on November 11, 2015, 07:41:43 PM

Bitcoin XT is basically a new bitcoin that is profitable for Coinbase. No one supported it from the beginning. No one will in the future. The original is the one and only, and no fake can best it. Bitcoin XT was never going to be a success, anyway.

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to.

Yes.

Noosterdam

It wasn't a mistake. Gavin did the right thing by exerting exit pressure (XT) rather than voice pressure (staying in Core), because having one monolithic implementation has already become Bitcoin's weak point. People think XT needs to reach 75% of mining power for it to succeed, but it doesn't. It just needs to hang over Core's head. Exit pressure is stronger than voice pressure, and it helps crack the centralization weak point of Core. Short term, we suffer some pain due to delayed blocksize increase, but long term we are spared greater pain by entering billion or trillion dollar market caps without the millstone of centralized development.

notbatman

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Quote from: CoinSkipper on November 11, 2015, 07:41:43 PM

Bitcoin XT is basically a new bitcoin that is profitable for Coinbase. No one supported it from the beginning. No one will in the future. The original is the one and only, and no fake can best it. Bitcoin XT was never going to be a success, anyway.

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to. I don't believe the real force behind the XT push ever intended or believed it would gain adoption.

Beat the price of BTC down, FUD and "divide & conquer", mission accomplished.

CoinSkipper

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Bitcoin XT is basically a new bitcoin that is profitable for Coinbase. No one supported it from the beginning. No one will in the future. The original is the one and only, and no fake can best it. Bitcoin XT was never going to be a success, anyway.

bambou

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As per genuinely illustrated with TBF fiasco, who gives a shite about their saying anyway?

Bitcoin does not work that way.

muyuu

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on November 11, 2015, 12:13:29 PM

Quote from: muyuu on November 11, 2015, 11:50:53 AM

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

hmmm, i thought the correlation was obvious from when it first became "a thing"

Quote from: tvbcof on November 11, 2015, 12:14:40 PM

Yes, that is a factor (I think.) Another is that many of the participants were drawn to Bitcoin for specific reasons, and those reasons are correlated with the ability of the state to put them under pressures of various sorts. Other's were probably just to stupid and greedy (aka, 'principled') to keep their noses clean wrt taxes and their testes retreated into their abdominal cavity when the finally recognized the potential ramification at rubber-meets-the-road time.

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 11, 2015, 12:21:24 PM

B-b-b-but but people like Gavin Andresen and Roger Ver describe themselves, respectively, as a libertarian and an anarchist! Just because they support a dev-team coup that puts Bitcoin back under corporate-state control, doesn't make them a pair of fakes, does it? Roger once went to prison over illegal bird feed, he's the most committed anti-state guy out there!

Quote from: bambou on November 11, 2015, 12:24:12 PM

Special thanks to the antanapoulos brainwasher as starbuck's undercover publicist.

Quote from: theymos on November 11, 2015, 12:28:56 PM

That's definitely part of it. This is really clear when you compare the XT/101 discussion on Reddit (which is filled mainly with the normal Reddit crowd) to the discussion on bitcointalk.org (which still has a lot of the original Bitcoiners and quite a bit of the original Bitcoin philosophy).

Thing is some old schoolers have bought into it fully, apparently. Even in the post from today the disconnect between what some are saying and their position on bigblocks is apparent, so at least politically the overlap while it may be large, it's certainly not complete.

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: brg444 on November 10, 2015, 02:26:51 PM

theymos

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Quote from: muyuu on November 11, 2015, 11:50:53 AM

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

That's definitely part of it. This is really clear when you compare the XT/101 discussion on Reddit (which is filled mainly with the normal Reddit crowd) to the discussion on bitcointalk.org (which still has a lot of the original Bitcoiners and quite a bit of the original Bitcoin philosophy).

bambou

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Activity: 346

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Special thanks to the antanapoulos brainwasher as starbuck's undercover publicist.

Carlton Banks

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Activity: 3430

Merit: 3080

Quote from: muyuu on November 11, 2015, 11:50:53 AM

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

B-b-b-but but people like Gavin Andresen and Roger Ver describe themselves, respectively, as a libertarian and an anarchist! Just because they support a dev-team coup that puts Bitcoin back under corporate-state control, doesn't make them a pair of fakes, does it? Roger once went to prison over illegal bird feed, he's the most committed anti-state guy out there!

tvbcof

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Quote from: muyuu on November 11, 2015, 11:50:53 AM

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

Yes, that is a factor (I think.) Another is that many of the participants were drawn to Bitcoin for specific reasons, and those reasons are correlated with the ability of the state to put them under pressures of various sorts. Other's were probably just to stupid and greedy (aka, 'principled') to keep their noses clean wrt taxes and their testes retreated into their abdominal cavity when the finally recognized the potential ramification at rubber-meets-the-road time.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: muyuu on November 11, 2015, 11:50:53 AM

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

hmmm, i thought the correlation was obvious from when it first became "a thing"

muyuu

donator

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 98. (Read 378996 times)