Quote
Please note that our office will be closed for business from 23 December 2013 and will re-open on 13 January 2014. Should you require any urgent assistance, please contact Steve Lawrence on 021 898 776.
http://www.pkfcr.co.nz/
Topic: Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users - page 9. (Read 64463 times)
I just noticed this on pkfcr's site:
http://www.pkfcr.co.nz/
http://www.pkfcr.co.nz/
Yes, the 3rd report should have been here by now. This is what I got from [email protected] on 10/10/13:
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You will receive the liquidators’ next 6 monthly report on the status of the liquidation in early December 2013. We do not correspond with the creditors during this time unless information is required from the creditors or a distribution is being processed. Bitcoinica has 201 creditors. Every time we correspond with creditors it adds costs to the liquidation, which will affect the distribution to creditors, should funds be available for a distribution to creditors. This is why liquidators have a 6 monthly reporting system in place for creditors.
2013?
When was this last report due? Does anyone even remember?
June 4
When was this last report due? Does anyone even remember?
don't dare e-mail them either, cost us another 1%
1% at the moment seems a bit steep don't you think
Did anyone contact them in the past few weeks? The absence of communication is ridiculous. They should've at least e-mailed "The 6 month report will be delayed" to all creditors.
don't dare e-mail them either, cost us another 1%
One month delay and no news 
...
... 
If bitcoin was worth zero would you be happy to get zero back for your bitcoins?
Happy... no. But at least I would be getting back what I put in.
50 BTC in ... 50 BTC out.
$50 in... $50 out.
The claim form suggests that they are aware of the difference, since it asks for "5a. Total Amount of Cash Owed USD (if any)" and "5b. Total Number of Bitcoins Owed (if any)". Clearly then the liquidator understands that the debts are in two denominations.
Got this 4th Dec after inquiring
Quote
The Liquidators report on the progress of the liquidation will be emailed to creditors shortly.
Regards
Anne Swanepoel
Secretary
Description: C:\Users\annes\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Signatures\Corporate-PKF-Email-Small.jpg
PKF Corporate Recovery & Insolvency (Auckland) Limited
Level 3, 48 Courthouse Lane | PO Box 3678, Auckland 1140, New Zealand
[email protected]
www.pkfcr.co.nz
P:
+64 9 302 0521
F:
+64 9 302 0536
DDI:
+64 9 306 7423
Regards
Anne Swanepoel
Secretary
Description: C:\Users\annes\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Signatures\Corporate-PKF-Email-Small.jpg
PKF Corporate Recovery & Insolvency (Auckland) Limited
Level 3, 48 Courthouse Lane | PO Box 3678, Auckland 1140, New Zealand
[email protected]
www.pkfcr.co.nz
P:
+64 9 302 0521
F:
+64 9 302 0536
DDI:
+64 9 306 7423
What does "shortly" mean to these people?
If bitcoin was worth zero would you be happy to get zero back for your bitcoins?
What would the difference be then? Get robbed 95 cents on the dollar or get nothing.
If bitcoin was worth zero would you be happy to get zero back for your bitcoins?
If depositors are reimbursed for pennies on the dollar (11 USD is only 1.5% of the current BTC USD value) while the rest (98.5%) goes to the 'owners' I would be really pissed considering that these people are responsible for this mess including:
I really hope the Liquidator will think this through and take steps that actually benefit the claimants. After all these are their funds that they trusted to Bitcoinica. Liquidating BTC @11 USD is almost legalized theft.
I also don't see why this should be the case. The last 'official' number we got before Bitcoinica went into Liquidation was a 30% haircut. (Can't find Amir's thread but it is also echoed in this article: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/1805/bitcoinica-stolen-from-again/). In addition not every depositor filed a claim. So let's not give up that easily.
Now that the Liquidator has access to the MtGox account we should get clarity as to how much is left. Of course the initial 30% haircut might have taken into account the promise of the investors to cover the previous (Linode & Rackspace) thefts. A promise they do not appear to have kept.
- Operating as a Limited Partnership before that partnership was fully formed (Unsigned docs)
- No backups of customer account data, No segregated accounts, No 2 factor on accounts (MtGox)
- Willfully leaked code including passwords to customer funds.
- Violating their own TOS
- Allowing a minor that was not an employee full access to funds and customer AML documentation (Zhou)
- No meaningful attempt to file reports for theft, backup recovery or fund recovery
- Never covering original thefts while lying to customers ('The thief stole from us, not you' & 'Previous thefts were covered by Tihan/investor') in order to attract new capital.
- etc.
I really hope the Liquidator will think this through and take steps that actually benefit the claimants. After all these are their funds that they trusted to Bitcoinica. Liquidating BTC @11 USD is almost legalized theft.
Why is 30% of BTC off the table? What do you know that I don't?
I also don't see why this should be the case. The last 'official' number we got before Bitcoinica went into Liquidation was a 30% haircut. (Can't find Amir's thread but it is also echoed in this article: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/1805/bitcoinica-stolen-from-again/). In addition not every depositor filed a claim. So let's not give up that easily.
Now that the Liquidator has access to the MtGox account we should get clarity as to how much is left. Of course the initial 30% haircut might have taken into account the promise of the investors to cover the previous (Linode & Rackspace) thefts. A promise they do not appear to have kept.
Some of us had Cash, Open positions, and Bitcoins that were ours, that we transferred into Bitcoinica, not coins that we acquired from Bitcoinica. If they sell my coins I transferred into Bitcoinica, I am going to be so super pissed..
We all would be, and I'm afraid we will be. Thing is, most bitcoins were robbed. They will only be able to sell a small fraction of (formerly) our bitcoins we sent to the exchange. At this point, I don't fucking care. The bitmarket.eu guys decided to pay back some % of their robbed customers in BTC, but taking the market value of the lost coins on the day they were hacked (I think). So if you had 1 Bitcoin then, and say it was worth 10 bucks at the time (more like 5 bucks or less when bitcoinica was hacked? don't remember) you would get the equivalent of 10 bucks of today's prices sent to you in BTC) so about 0.01444 BTC of today's value (on btc-e, like right now). All of this fun minus the costs for the liquidators, and heck maybe Mark would charge money for "securing" the coins in the meantime (and fight illiquidity issues of MtGox). I wouldn't be surprised.
All things considered, I don't think I will realistically see even half a bitcoin of my former balance of 50 BTC. Not going to get excited much over that.
If I could get 30% of my BTC back, I would love that so much more than $11 per coin...
I'm afraid that's totally off the table. Like I said, it's hardly worth wasting a thought on it. In fact, if anything comes back, everyone will be mad. It will not be a happy moment. So, I'm thinking we should do ourselves a favor and not literally get sick over this "great" news that something, maybe, could come out of this.
Some of us had Cash, Open positions, and Bitcoins that were ours, that we transferred into Bitcoinica, not coins that we acquired from Bitcoinica. If they sell my coins I transferred into Bitcoinica, I am going to be so super pissed..
We all would be, and I'm afraid we will be. Thing is, most bitcoins were robbed. They will only be able to sell a small fraction of (formerly) our bitcoins we sent to the exchange. At this point, I don't fucking care. The bitmarket.eu guys decided to pay back some % of their robbed customers in BTC, but taking the market value of the lost coins on the day they were hacked (I think). So if you had 1 Bitcoin then, and say it was worth 10 bucks at the time (more like 5 bucks or less when bitcoinica was hacked? don't remember) you would get the equivalent of 10 bucks of today's prices sent to you in BTC) so about 0.01444 BTC of today's value (on btc-e, like right now). All of this fun minus the costs for the liquidators, and heck maybe Mark would charge money for "securing" the coins in the meantime (and fight illiquidity issues of MtGox). I wouldn't be surprised.
All things considered, I don't think I will realistically see even half a bitcoin of my former balance of 50 BTC. Not going to get excited much over that.
Some of us had Cash, Open positions, and Bitcoins that were ours, that we transferred into Bitcoinica, not coins that we acquired from Bitcoinica. If they sell my coins I transferred into Bitcoinica, I am going to be so super pissed..
Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back? We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?
I think there is a chance we'd get the value in US dollars of the bitcoins at the time of liquidation. And that there will be a very large surplus amount of money which will go to the owners of the firm. And that the bitcoinica liquidation could be treated as the type of liquidation where the number of assets is greater than the liabilities.
Think about what would happen if bitcoins went down to zero. It makes sense for a liquidator to value a highly variable asset at the value at the point of liquidation. On the other hand, if the liquidator doesn't ownership of the assets until much later - it could make sense to value them at the point of acquisition.
Of course this is all speculation. We need to some solid kiwi (New Zealand) legal advice.
Nice insolvency that would be. The people that f*cked up would be richly rewarded for their mistakes at the expense of all depositors.
Bitcoinica liability needs to be defined as BTC based.
The 3rd Liquidator report should be out any day now. So far I've been very disappointed in the performance of the liquidator. So I'm not very hopeful.
Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back? We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?
I think there is a chance we'd get the value in US dollars of the bitcoins at the time of liquidation. And that there will be a very large surplus amount of money which will go to the owners of the firm. And that the bitcoinica liquidation could be treated as the type of liquidation where the number of assets is greater than the liabilities.
Think about what would happen if bitcoins went down to zero. It makes sense for a liquidator to value a highly variable asset at the value at the point of liquidation. On the other hand, if the liquidator doesn't ownership of the assets until much later - it could make sense to value them at the point of acquisition.
Of course this is all speculation. We need to some solid kiwi (New Zealand) legal advice.
Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back? We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?
I have good feelings about this delay, look like they are doing something
yes, it seems something is going on, im not exactly sure what, however im okay for them to hold out for good news, like mark giving us back our coins. that would be cool.
After all this time, do you think good things can happen in this world?!
Roger ver has been keeping up on this and maybe is effort is about to pay off.
This would make for an excellent christmas present.
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