Topic: Bitcoin's problem is the low rate of new coins (Read 4308 times)

Everyone has to remember that we are all Early adopters, we only have a 1.6 billion dollar market cap... we got 50 trillion dollars to go... spend your hard earned bitcoins, the more you use them the more valuable they become, So I'm going to order pizza with my bitcoins, that's my vote, I support pizza bought with bitcoins, I want to see more of that.

Bitcoin encourages saving; yes it does.

Bitcoin encourages hoarding? Certainly not; Your mindset has to change, with a system like this spending and saving makes what you have worth a lot more; Stop thinking like it's FIAT.

Given the course of many people who did that with the USD, You may end up one of the richest bitcoiners around. Or living in a hotel, married to a pigeon.

Apparently I will never be an early adopter, because I didn't take this course.  I was the same for only the first few steps:
Life cycle of a Bitcoiner:
Hear about Bitcoin. Look into it, decide not to get in. Too risky.
Several months pass.
Hear about Bitcoin again, see how much the price has risen.
Buy a few coins, so as to not be left out.
Realize that I am now in a new land, with a new currency, and penniless.  Start working for a living to earn coin.

I'm still pretty close to penniless, but at least I'm not whining all the time.

/thread.

FFS, people...That's why we have Freicoin, Commie-Coin and, what I think is the best invention yet, DirtCoin. With DirtCoin, you don't need ANY mining hardware. You don't need a computer or a shovel or a sleuce. ANYone can obtain it, at any time, practically anywhere on the planet. An extremely modest demurrage is built into its core and new, clean Dirtcoins are being produced in numerous places around the world. If you cannot get to one of these production nodes, well, then you can just bend over and pick up some Dirtcoins to spend wherever Dirtcoins are accepted. Anyone can obtain it at any time with practically no investment whatsoever!

DirtCoins! An idea worth spending, hoarding, speculating, producing, legislating, overdesigning!


Now, let's give the forum a few years for the quadriplegics to show up and bitch about how unfair it is that they can't obtain any. By all means, hold your breath... 

Yeah, what he said. How come gold miners don't have this kind of scorn? After all, they mine the gold and you are invited to buy it. You could try mining gold yourself, but you will likely not be successful. Same thing.

Bitcoins are still being produced, and this will continue for over a century. You're also invited to join in the production.

+1

+1, and I would add that it is also incorrect to say they were produced by a very small community.  I think it is in the tens of thousands.
In any case, how many are produced is irrelevant. It is like saying there is not enough gold being mined to keep up with demand, therefore gold is useless as a store of value.

If you are going to whine at least get the facts right.  Since March 1st there have been 7,392 blocks producing 184,800 new BTC.  The Bitcoin money supply is growing at roughly a 12% annual rate (12% monetary inflation).



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+10

Good work

And actually that list is missing some entities as well

+10000!!!!

Thank you! hopefully i'm not annoying people with my wild ideas, but here it goes.

here is the math:

Current bitcoin production average 3600 (+/- 400)/ day * 365 days = 1,314,000 BTC/ year   * (current value whatever it is, at the moment $130usd) = $170,800,000usd/year)

what if the interest increases? what if people are eager to enter the Bitcoin market? bitcoin will naturally scale so

increase the price to 1000  and you get = $1,314,000,000 USD/year  

what if it increases to world wide level demand?

increase the price to $200,000 USD/BTC =  $262,800,000,000 USD/year

what if the system tries to take the maximum amount of bitcoins possible all 21,000,000,000,000,000 USD/satoshiBTC?  = $27,594,000,000,000,000,000,000 USD/year

There is a lot of zero's past that decimal point.

The system scales my friends, the system scales.

In a way you got to remember that the fiat currencies inflate infinitely.... each coin can be worth an infinite amount of USD... one coin could be worth the entire world economy.

TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

Do you have any reference to that discussion? I would certainly like to read it.

Thanks for  a reply with a rationale, rather than the religious kind.

You misunderstood me at a key point: Yes I want a faster coin production - but I want it to remain constant. Not to stop. I know the volume would be ever increasing, but I think the increased demand would keep infaltion well down, and one would still have defaltion.

I like you, you're good people.

I see this shit in just about every thread just like this one. I was going to save your asses a lot of trouble and just post the info here about all the businesses that transact in Bitcoin, but, alas, our trusty forum software only allows posts with less than 64 000 characters. I guess I will just have to put a link here instead and trust that you will click on it and actually read it.

Bitcoin IS succeeding!

And quite nicely without all the meddling chimpanzery that the newcomers with their Keynesian economics degrees and certificates and training would like to impose upon it.

Steady decrease over time = less produced as it becomes more widely accepted. Which means that the btc in circulation has the chance to grow appropriately. As money-inflation supply decreases value increases and the desire to hold some increases which in turn increases the market and the business desire to do business with a market full of bitcoiners eager to spend their btc.

Supply decreasing also gives incentives to miners choosing to mine transaction blocks primarily, which encourages businesses to adopt transaction fees, which will mean that by the time final production of btc ends that there will be a steady transaction fee market so that miners will be comfortable to stay mining.

The amount of new people being introduced each day, and buying 1 btc when they get introduced vs 3600 btc produced per day.

Bit hard to judge this one, as you need to look at various sites that show how many 'new wallets' they get, but then, how many of these are new people to btc?

When you have 3600 new people per day, buying an average of 1 btc per day .. what happens when you have 7200 people .. per day.

Anyway .. hope what I said is a bit understandable, cba to write a paper, and you probably wouldn't read it anyway.

A good way to understand why a 'low' rate of new coins and a steady decrease is a most excellent idea is to spin it on its head, and figure out what would happen if it was a steady increase in the rate of coins culminating at a sudden cut off at 21 million (which would probably happen within a couple of years at that rate).

Just to add .. IF btc was produced faster as you suggest, or even faster, and all 21 million were to be mined by this August 2013. Then don't you think that ALL the btc would most definitely be in the hands of the minority. THAT would be a bad thing, then btc would die, or at least grow extremely slowly, but most likely die. Spreading it out nice and steady and encouraging current holders to spread it out is a very very good thing. Don't think short term 'I wanna make lotsa money!!", think long term "I want to save the world."

OK, maybe saving the world is too much for a lot of people, but having some Satoshi is a good step towards that

Satoshi Nakomoto is a genius, and thought long term.

Actually there was a discussion about keeping coin generation rate forever at 50 coins per block, but the linear increase of coin supply would still make any newly generated coins insignificant comparing to all the existing coins, just the curve is not that steep

But the impression is totally different

1. Daily coin generation is 7200 coins
2. Total coin generation will be 21M

Comparing the two statements, the second one obviously give the impression of a limited supply, while the first one still feels like endless supply. This impression affect people's interest and trust, in the first case, bitcoin might never reach the status it has today

Dear OP,

There are currently OVER

1,000,000,000,000,000 Satoshi's (bitcoin) - 1 Quadrillion (tbh, I think I did my maths wrong and it should be 10 quadrillion satoshi's atm)

(10 millionx 100000000 (1 btc))


1,000,000,000 billion
100,000,000,000 billion

Thats counting it at 10 million, and as I hope you know, there's over 10 mil btc around atm.

So.... my question to you OP is ..

Do you think 1,000,000,000,000,000, considering the current interest, and that the world population is roughly 7 billion, is enough to go around then?

Or do you still think there's not enough? And if you think that 1 or 10 quadrillion is NOT enough for the current supply/demand, and the upcoming supply and demand, then how much DO you think would be enough?