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Topic: Bitfinex is dropping their US customers (Read 1814 times)

legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
October 23, 2017, 06:25:11 PM
#50
I'm not storing my coins. All are on orders, or on loans, and I've never had any trouble with any exchange so far. On Poloniex, when I look at my trade history, it's more than 100 pages, without any trouble. Well, I remember their server went down a few times, but I know those things happen. I've also bought many cars at copart.com which many, many people say it's dodgy, but most of the time, everything has been fine for me. There's risk in every business, and I guess you shall not be afraid of some people complaining on the web. You just need to test a service for a while a first. My first time at an exchange, I go with $100. I'm doing a few trades, get my coins back, and if everything went fine, I invest some more. Note also that I'm using 3 exchanges (well, Bitstamp also), I don't put all my eggs in the same basket...

I've had nothing but good experiences on Poloniex, and I also realize that no service is perfect so it's not the (now aging) outages that concern me.  What concerns me about Poloniex is their total lack of communication around the outages.  If they would have simply recognized the outage, communicate status updates, and even go further to provide updates on upgrading their support group... then I'd feel more comfortable keeping my coin there.  There's also the fact that after 5-months I've yet to have my account verified; that tells me they either don't care or running on the bare minimum staff.


You may stay forever with an unverified account. I agree the daily withdrawal limit can be a problem, but it isn't if you're a long term investor.

@richardsNY
I don't think about the Bitfinex hack anymore. It happened more than a year ago.
full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 102
October 22, 2017, 10:34:30 PM
#49
I'm not storing my coins. All are on orders, or on loans, and I've never had any trouble with any exchange so far. On Poloniex, when I look at my trade history, it's more than 100 pages, without any trouble. Well, I remember their server went down a few times, but I know those things happen. I've also bought many cars at copart.com which many, many people say it's dodgy, but most of the time, everything has been fine for me. There's risk in every business, and I guess you shall not be afraid of some people complaining on the web. You just need to test a service for a while a first. My first time at an exchange, I go with $100. I'm doing a few trades, get my coins back, and if everything went fine, I invest some more. Note also that I'm using 3 exchanges (well, Bitstamp also), I don't put all my eggs in the same basket...

I've had nothing but good experiences on Poloniex, and I also realize that no service is perfect so it's not the (now aging) outages that concern me.  What concerns me about Poloniex is their total lack of communication around the outages.  If they would have simply recognized the outage, communicate status updates, and even go further to provide updates on upgrading their support group... then I'd feel more comfortable keeping my coin there.  There's also the fact that after 5-months I've yet to have my account verified; that tells me they either don't care or running on the bare minimum staff.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1091
October 22, 2017, 01:18:07 PM
#48
I'm not storing my coins. All are on orders, or on loans, and I've never had any trouble with any exchange so far. On Poloniex, when I look at my trade history, it's more than 100 pages, without any trouble. Well, I remember their server went down a few times, but I know those things happen.

It's different per person. I see loads of complaints about Bittrex come through in the last weeks, all from people claiming that Bittrex is a thief, etc. I use Bittrex too, and never have I encountered even 1 single issue. The only thing that I don't like about Bittrex is that they don't allow you to create a new deposit address manually, but that's something you have to accept when making use of them. It's impossible to please everyone as exchange/service. Other than that, I do agree with alyssa85, Bitfinex is an exchange that can't be trusted anymore after their hack drama -- from there I find it very difficult to swallow that people are still making use of such an exchange.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
October 22, 2017, 09:05:22 AM
#47
People are crapping on the Americans - but the thing is Bitfinex is dodgy. Their mysterious hack for example. It's no wonder the American regulators started asking questions.

Wasn't aware of that. I thought Bitfinex was doing that from its own initiative. Do you have any link to this request from American regulators? I don't see Bitfinex as dodgy. No more than Poloniex or Kraken (I have coins at all 3).

All three seem to be poorly mismanaged exchanges. The common denominator is the countless complaints here and elsewhere on the world wide web about account access being denied or limited. I’m surprised you’re relaxed about keeping coins in these three exchanges. Storing coins in any exchange is too risky these days. Arbitrary and random account blockage are too scary for me to contemplate or experience. I don’t mind if they take their sweet time verifying an empty account but if they restrict access to coins stored on the account, that’s the painful bit. I would have sleepless nights worrying about those coins. Uncertainty is never a pleasant thing.

I'm not storing my coins. All are on orders, or on loans, and I've never had any trouble with any exchange so far. On Poloniex, when I look at my trade history, it's more than 100 pages, without any trouble. Well, I remember their server went down a few times, but I know those things happen. I've also bought many cars at copart.com which many, many people say it's dodgy, but most of the time, everything has been fine for me. There's risk in every business, and I guess you shall not be afraid of some people complaining on the web. You just need to test a service for a while a first. My first time at an exchange, I go with $100. I'm doing a few trades, get my coins back, and if everything went fine, I invest some more. Note also that I'm using 3 exchanges (well, Bitstamp also), I don't put all my eggs in the same basket...
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 658
rgbkey.github.io/pgp.txt
October 21, 2017, 08:55:33 PM
#46
People are crapping on the Americans - but the thing is Bitfinex is dodgy. Their mysterious hack for example. It's no wonder the American regulators started asking questions.

Wasn't aware of that. I thought Bitfinex was doing that from its own initiative. Do you have any link to this request from American regulators? I don't see Bitfinex as dodgy. No more than Poloniex or Kraken (I have coins at all 3).

Poloniex is pretty dodgy. I've had deposits take waayyyyy too long to get in there, and withdraws that sometimes seem to take days for no reason. I've known people who had to contact support just to get their own coins released from their system when they were mysteriously locked up. I've stayed far away from them since.
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1082
October 21, 2017, 07:25:08 PM
#45
People are crapping on the Americans - but the thing is Bitfinex is dodgy. Their mysterious hack for example. It's no wonder the American regulators started asking questions.

Wasn't aware of that. I thought Bitfinex was doing that from its own initiative. Do you have any link to this request from American regulators? I don't see Bitfinex as dodgy. No more than Poloniex or Kraken (I have coins at all 3).

All three seem to be poorly mismanaged exchanges. The common denominator is the countless complaints here and elsewhere on the world wide web about account access being denied or limited. I’m surprised you’re relaxed about keeping coins in these three exchanges. Storing coins in any exchange is too risky these days. Arbitrary and random account blockage are too scary for me to contemplate or experience. I don’t mind if they take their sweet time verifying an empty account but if they restrict access to coins stored on the account, that’s the painful bit. I would have sleepless nights worrying about those coins. Uncertainty is never a pleasant thing.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
October 21, 2017, 07:09:33 PM
#44
People are crapping on the Americans - but the thing is Bitfinex is dodgy. Their mysterious hack for example. It's no wonder the American regulators started asking questions.

Wasn't aware of that. I thought Bitfinex was doing that from its own initiative. Do you have any link to this request from American regulators? I don't see Bitfinex as dodgy. No more than Poloniex or Kraken (I have coins at all 3).
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1088
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
October 20, 2017, 08:17:25 PM
#43
People are crapping on the Americans - but the thing is Bitfinex is dodgy. Their mysterious hack for example. It's no wonder the American regulators started asking questions.

American traders can use GDAX or Gemini, while Bitfinex will attract the dodgier end of the spectrum. I'd be very surprised if their exchange was even operating in a few years time.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1196
STOP SNITCHIN'
October 20, 2017, 07:21:54 PM
#42
There were also many Americans with a Swiss or Singaporean bank account who weren't cheating on their taxes. But nowadays, it's next to impossible to open a bank account in those countries if you're holding an American passport. Well, unless you have an introducer, and some very legit fully explainable import-export business. Bitfinex is only a small new element. Other exchanges, QuadrigaCX or Gatecoin also, block American users. I'm sorry if you're American, but most banks and exchanges just want to avoid trouble.

This is the nature of regulation. Those residing in other countries may not be experiencing it yet, but they will face similar restrictions, too, once governments begin passing regulations governing cryptocurrency exchanges. At the rate things are happening, we can expect this to happen in the major developed countries within the next couple years.

The reason this happens is that licensing and overall compliance costs are prohibitive for small companies and startups. As Bitcoin goes mainstream, there is much more potential venture capital backing these companies (like Coinbase, Gemini) to justify compliance.

That's the trade-off for these companies. They have much higher compliance costs, but they are competing for a larger share of a much larger pie as cryptocurrency continues to go mainstream.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
October 20, 2017, 06:33:15 PM
#41
Good. I'm very happy with this decision. They're going the same way as Swiss banks. US customers bring too many problems. Most banks in most countries, and most financial institutions everywhere in the world, are just telling Americans to stay at home.
Sorry sir, we don't want to do business with you.
That's what you hear when you're an American abroad nowadays. If Trump would kill FATCA and the International taxation of US citizens instead of wrecking the deal with Iran, it could change.

You saying that it has a political motivation behind here not wanting US citizens because they bring more harm than good?

But If I'm a US citizen, I will take this news as another slap on the face because they will lose a lot of opportunity to do trading. The only recourse of action is to really take it somewhere else. Maybe Bitfinex is really afraid that they will be the next BTC-E, being targeted by US authorities so they make this moved to avoid problems. But I don't think this is fair to all US citizens who are trading legally and not doing any money laundering or any illegal acts.

There were also many Americans with a Swiss or Singaporean bank account who weren't cheating on their taxes. But nowadays, it's next to impossible to open a bank account in those countries if you're holding an American passport. Well, unless you have an introducer, and some very legit fully explainable import-export business. Bitfinex is only a small new element. Other exchanges, QuadrigaCX or Gatecoin also, block American users. I'm sorry if you're American, but most banks and exchanges just want to avoid trouble.
hero member
Activity: 2632
Merit: 833
October 19, 2017, 07:09:08 PM
#40
Good. I'm very happy with this decision. They're going the same way as Swiss banks. US customers bring too many problems. Most banks in most countries, and most financial institutions everywhere in the world, are just telling Americans to stay at home.
Sorry sir, we don't want to do business with you.
That's what you hear when you're an American abroad nowadays. If Trump would kill FATCA and the International taxation of US citizens instead of wrecking the deal with Iran, it could change.

You saying that it has a political motivation behind here not wanting US citizens because they bring more harm than good?

But If I'm a US citizen, I will take this news as another slap on the face because they will lose a lot of opportunity to do trading. The only recourse of action is to really take it somewhere else. Maybe Bitfinex is really afraid that they will be the next BTC-E, being targeted by US authorities so they make this moved to avoid problems. But I don't think this is fair to all US citizens who are trading legally and not doing any money laundering or any illegal acts.
hero member
Activity: 697
Merit: 520
October 19, 2017, 05:44:03 PM
#39
Well, it's official.  I'm disappointed but at least I know the plan now.  We have until November 9th to remove all coins from Bitfinex; afterwards all trading, deposits, and withdrawals will be blocked.

It's interesting that they actually say that withdrawals will be blocked. Usually, sites include a note about recovering funds after the deadline has passed. I expected them to say automatic withdrawals would be blocked, or something similar.

Good. I'm very happy with this decision. They're going the same way as Swiss banks. US customers bring too many problems. Most banks in most countries, and most financial institutions everywhere in the world, are just telling Americans to stay at home.
Sorry sir, we don't want to do business with you.
That's what you hear when you're an American abroad nowadays. If Trump would kill FATCA and the International taxation of US citizens instead of wrecking the deal with Iran, it could change.

That's definitely not what you hear when you're an American abroad nowadays. Maybe from a few cryptocurrency brokers/exchanges, like Bitfinex, Bitmex, Wex.nz. But in general, no. And even in the Bitcoin space, most services/exchanges welcome American business even given the legal risks of doing so because it is such a massive market. I think that Bitfinex was lying when they said that Americans represent a small portion of their business. The truth is that they are terrified that they will be taken down like BTC-e was. Shutting down business for Americans now won't prevent that.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
October 19, 2017, 05:36:34 PM
#38
Good. I'm very happy with this decision. They're going the same way as Swiss banks. US customers bring too many problems. Most banks in most countries, and most financial institutions everywhere in the world, are just telling Americans to stay at home.
Sorry sir, we don't want to do business with you.
That's what you hear when you're an American abroad nowadays. If Trump would kill FATCA and the International taxation of US citizens instead of wrecking the deal with Iran, it could change.
full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 102
October 17, 2017, 11:52:13 AM
#37
Well, it's official.  I'm disappointed but at least I know the plan now.  We have until November 9th to remove all coins from Bitfinex; afterwards all trading, deposits, and withdrawals will be blocked.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/227

Quote
This message is further to our announcement of August 11, 2017, with respect to terminating our business with U.S. individual customers. As indicated in the announcement, we are terminating trading, deposits, and withdrawal functionality for U.S. individual customers by no later than November 9, 2017. U.S. customers are already barred from receiving financing from other users on Bitfinex’s peer-to-peer financing platform. This restriction will remain and, in addition, U.S. individual customers will no longer be able to provide financing on Bitfinex effective November 9, 2017.

All U.S. individual users must make arrangements to withdraw their Digital Tokens by November 9th.

U.S. individuals holding Recovery Right Tokens (RRTs), if any, which relate to the exchange of now-defunct BFX tokens to equity in iFinex Inc., may, starting on October 27, 2017, sell all of their RRTs on the exchange, if they so elect. This is an exception to the general terms of use for RRTs. U.S. individuals are not permitted to buy RRTs during this time period. All terms and conditions relating to the sale of any RRTs remain in full force and effect and are deemed to apply to the sale of any RRTs by U.S. individuals or otherwise. Any RRTs remaining in the hands of U.S. individual verified customers after the November 9th deadline may be sold through Bitfinex on an OTC basis through special arrangement with us.
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
October 17, 2017, 09:29:40 AM
#36
Hi i use this platform for trading. Are they going to take my tokens if they have not been removed by November 9th?

Please let me know
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1088
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
October 11, 2017, 07:39:38 PM
#35


yea that's all I did, clicked that box and said I'm not a us resident - are they that stupid?  finally transferred the rest of my IOTA out of there to binance - not many options for iota if you don't want hardware wallet (which I could never get working) ..  it's unfortunate our government is so evil and bitfinex are cowards. bye bye bitfinex

It isn't about stupidity exactly, it's about plausible deniability. They can point to you actively claiming you arn't American and it's on you for fibbing.
full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 102
October 11, 2017, 06:40:24 PM
#34
I wish they'd communicate more.  I keep some coin on Bitfinex because I love the margin lending feature.  Earning passive income is very attractive, but it's so strange they communicated their discontinuation of US support and then nothing for 2-months.
sr. member
Activity: 454
Merit: 251
August 13, 2017, 08:22:05 AM
#33
I have to say that as an American I'm getting increasingly frustrated with how our government is pushing back on crypto.  I see other countries looking for ways to work with this new industry and all I see from our government is ways to regulate or flat out ban it.  I'm going to head over to petition.whitehouse.gov and create a petition to back off of crypto.  I know it wont do anything but we have to start somewhere.

In this particular instance, don't be upset, your govt may have saved you from a MtGox scenario. There have been a number of flags over bitfinex for some time - their mysterious hack last year, the high withdrawal fees etc.

Except they did so by making BTC-e insolvent and likely unable to relaunch to repay users. A lot of Bitfinex users were also BTC-e users (and lots of US residents on both exchanges). So, I'll continue to be upset, thank you very much. Wink
hero member
Activity: 697
Merit: 520
August 13, 2017, 05:39:26 AM
#32
They probably saw what happened with BTC-e and decided to bail out sooner rather than later.

Not sure why they would still offer unverified services for US citizens, though. Pretty sure the only things that will be discontinued from the next 90 days would be US citizens' ability to obtain a verified account, and deposit and withdraw from their site. They can still access Bitfinex without any issues, it's just that they can't deposit using USD, withdraw using USD, or trade specific tokens.

If they are going to shut down the US market then at least do it properly and block all incoming traffic.

Also, are previously verified accounts going to stay verified? Since they said that they are "no longer" accepting verifications.

They said "discontinuing services to our existing U.S. individual customers" so that means all US customers by my reading. And verification does no good anyway, since they have zero ability to get bank wires to customers. I wouldn't be surprised if that's helping to push the price up; the only way to get out of Bitfinex is to buy coins...

My reading of it: Effective immediately, no verification for US users. On August 16, no trading of ERC tokens for US users. It's unclear when US users (verified or not) will be barred from trading on their exchange, presumably within 90 days of the posting.

I thought they would have blocked US traffic following the CFTC decision and the security token distribution following the hack, but all they made US people do is click a box saying they didn't reside there. That might be all they do here; maybe unverified US users will just create new accounts and say they aren't US residents. Might not even need a VPN.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
August 13, 2017, 05:20:40 AM
#31
https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/216

Quote
Service Changes for U.S. Customers

Bitfinex is making changes to the services we provide to U.S. individuals. These changes impact the verification process and trading of certain digital tokens for U.S. customers. Some changes are effective immediately, and others will be gradually implemented in the coming weeks.

Suspension of U.S. Individual Verification Requests

We regret to announce that, effective immediately, we will no longer be accepting verification requests for U.S. individuals.

We have for some time considered pulling away from the retail marketplace in the U.S., and now with a current backlog of verification requests and ongoing difficulties in providing USD deposit and withdrawals for U.S. individuals, we feel that the time has come to begin disengaging from U.S. retail customers.

Several factors have gone into this decision:

    While we have been able to normalize banking for some corporate customers and individuals in certain jurisdictions, compliant banking solutions for U.S. individuals remain elusive. We have been slowly and selectively inviting users in particular jurisdictions who meet set criteria to start using banking channels that have come online. This process is ongoing.
    A surprisingly small percentage of our revenues come from verified U.S. individual accounts while a dramatically outsized portion of our resources goes into servicing the needs of U.S. individuals, including support, legal and regulatory.
    We anticipate the regulatory landscape to become even more challenging in the future.
    Bitfinex is not based in the United States. Exchanges based in the U.S. are better positioned to properly service retail U.S. customers.

We are thankful to all of our loyal U.S. customers that have consistently traded with us but, unfortunately, we have an obligation to our whole customer base and to our shareholders to make rational resource allocation decisions.

Furthermore, over the next 90 days, we will be discontinuing services to our existing U.S. individual customers. We will be communicating further with affected users on timing and specifics. Our intention is to reduce disruption as much as possible for our U.S. customers.

We will continue to take advice and implement further changes as circumstances warrant.

Restrictions on U.S. Persons Trading Certain Digital Tokens

Pursuant to the recent report of investigation issued by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, Bitfinex is taking the proactive step of barring U.S. customers from trading certain digital tokens that may be deemed securities in the eyes of the SEC.

The restriction will generally apply to ERC20 tokens issued through "ICOs" and will go into effect at noon UTC on Wednesday, August 16, 2017. No trading of these tokens will be allowed for U.S. customers. At the time of this post, the tokens active on Bitfinex that will be subject to this restriction are EOS (EOS) and Santiment (SAN).

Once again, we regret any inconvenience this change in policy might create, but we believe this to be a prudent measure given the regulatory uncertainty surrounding such digital assets.

They probably saw what happened with BTC-e and decided to bail out sooner rather than later.

Not sure why they would still offer unverified services for US citizens, though. Pretty sure the only things that will be discontinued from the next 90 days would be US citizens' ability to obtain a verified account, and deposit and withdraw from their site. They can still access Bitfinex without any issues, it's just that they can't deposit using USD, withdraw using USD, or trade specific tokens.

If they are going to shut down the US market then at least do it properly and block all incoming traffic.

Also, are previously verified accounts going to stay verified? Since they said that they are "no longer" accepting verifications.
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