Bitfinex is dropping their US customers - page 2.

alyssa85

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Quote from: sylance on August 12, 2017, 05:40:28 PM

I have to say that as an American I'm getting increasingly frustrated with how our government is pushing back on crypto. I see other countries looking for ways to work with this new industry and all I see from our government is ways to regulate or flat out ban it. I'm going to head over to petition.whitehouse.gov and create a petition to back off of crypto. I know it wont do anything but we have to start somewhere.

In this particular instance, don't be upset, your govt may have saved you from a MtGox scenario. There have been a number of flags over bitfinex for some time - their mysterious hack last year, the high withdrawal fees etc.

Take your coins out and be glad you won't be using them again!

illinest

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Quote from: mk4 on August 12, 2017, 05:09:04 AM

Quote from: crazyivan on August 12, 2017, 02:12:02 AM

Well, I do see this as a bad think neither for US people not for the rest of us. If a service acts like that as is afraid of being taken down, this usually means they have something to hide or they re involved in some illegal shit. Why would I use that kind of service? Crypto s NOT about scamming people and doing market manipulation.

So I d say, fuck you Bitfinex. I m from Europe and your ban does not apply to me (yet) but you will not see a single satoshi from me.

I wouldn't jump into conclusions that fast. Don't forget that the US government can pull off random reasons just to shut down businesses, not to mention we're talking about cryptocurrencies here. Which they might see as competition or a threat to their fiat. Also, maybe they're gonna disallow US citizens because of the same reason why ICOs are not allowed in the US?

They are trying to saying that "compliance costs" of verifying US users and complying with AML/KYC laws is too great. The real cost that they avoided for years was registering as an MSB in all US states. After what's happened to BTC-e, they are scared, and this is the first move to cover their ass.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: sylance on August 12, 2017, 05:40:28 PM

I have to say that as an American I'm getting increasingly frustrated with how our government is pushing back on crypto. I see other countries looking for ways to work with this new industry and all I see from our government is ways to regulate or flat out ban it. I'm going to head over to petition.whitehouse.gov and create a petition to back off of crypto. I know it wont do anything but we have to start somewhere.

i don't think they are trying to ban it, but yes, they want to regulate it. and when the US wants to regulate something, it means punishing unregulated entities. i'm sure this is why bitstamp and coinbase started obtaining licensing and implementing harsh KYC measures starting years ago. they were smart enough to see this coming and are likely safe from this mess. i'd be worried about keeping funds on bitfinex after what's happened at btc-e (even if you weren't already worried given the hack last year).

sylance

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Quote from: leopard2 on August 12, 2017, 05:47:04 PM

This is because US government considers US citizens their property, it is called serfdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

They also think they own the planet.... Angry

Too many Americans are idiots so they cannot see this and vote for Ron Paul. Wink

Completely agree!!!! I don't think America was ready for Ron Paul, but I agree that his vision is where we need to go. This was the most depressing election every... I had to do a write in and wrote on Ran Paul.

leopard2

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This is because US government considers US citizens their property, it is called serfdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

They also think they own the planet.... Angry

Too many Americans are idiots so they cannot see this and vote for Ron Paul. Wink

sylance

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I have to say that as an American I'm getting increasingly frustrated with how our government is pushing back on crypto. I see other countries looking for ways to work with this new industry and all I see from our government is ways to regulate or flat out ban it. I'm going to head over to petition.whitehouse.gov and create a petition to back off of crypto. I know it wont do anything but we have to start somewhere.

MAbtc

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Quote from: Samarkand on August 12, 2017, 05:56:55 AM

What is stopping any US citizen from simply opening up a new BFX account?
It is not necessary to verify your account at all if you deposit and withdraw only
in cryptos.

I see the reasoning behind their decision, but I think practically you can
still continue to use their exchange, if you want to do it.

Exactly. Unverified US users (a large percentage of their userbase) may not even need to do anything if they already indicated last year that they are not US residents (even if their IP address suggested they were). If anything, US users will just start using VPNs if Bitfinex introduces IP restrictions.

I still don't think this will shield them from US government action given that they've been processing deposits and withdrawals for years to US residents. It's clearly a CYA move, but I don't think it is necessarily good enough...

aoihs00

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Why to even care for this as we have more than enough options to trade and invest money in. They have mentioned that they will be serving corporate customers as they have normalised the regulations for those customers of course this is in greed that corporate customers will invest big amounts of money than normal investors like us. Anyway, I would drop it too as I have more options to think on and can keep doing what I was doing with bitfinex. Not a big deal though.

giveen

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That's a good decision we now see ico also not allowing us residents to fund their project the problem is us has a lot of attitude they think they are the best and have perfect regulations well we can now see the crypto word gives no f**ks about us let this be a lesson for their regulations i hope more exchanges start boycotting because of all these rules i had decided to move of us long ago. Plus bitfinex told they didn't get much revenue from us customers so it's not a big deal at all.

alyssa85

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Quote from: xypos on August 12, 2017, 01:40:36 AM

Seems like that they are scared by the fact that BTC-e basically got brutally taken down by the US government, and they want to vaoid the US government as much as they can because they know that even with their KYC standards it might not be enough.

And plus as they said the effort and money put into handling US side of things is just too large.

Most of Bitfinex's users aren't even US citizens, meaning that discontinuing US users will lessen their profit, just not by a very large margin at all.

Just use some other exchange if you're in US and still want to trade. Most of them are still open for US, but some ban specific states.

Bitfinex lost it's ability to move dollars in April this year. And zero hedge wrote the following article about them in May:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-03/worlds-largest-bitcoin-exchange-headed-mt-gox-style-collapse

Quote

Could Bitfinex, the world's largest, Hong-Kong based cryptocurrency exchange, be headed for a Mt. Gox-style collapse? It's starting to look that way.

When Mt. Gox first halted customer withdrawals in February 2014, it waited more than two weeks to admit the truth to its customers: that hackers had stolen more than $450 million of their assets, leaving the exchange bankrupt and them holding the bag. That hack effectively crippled the entire digital currency ecosystem, ushering in a two-year bear market that at one point carried the bitcoin price below $200, from what was then a record high north of $1,200 reached in November 2013.

So when another exchange engages in similarly shady behavior - withholding critical information about customer funds, or failing to produce audited financials despite promising to do so - it should prompt crypto traders to ask themselves why, with dozens, if not hundreds, of cryptocurrency exchanges operating around the world, they're choosing to do business with this one.

The writing has been on the wall for some time.

If people have coins there, start moving them now. Don't wait 90 days.

Samarkand

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What is stopping any US citizen from simply opening up a new BFX account?
It is not necessary to verify your account at all if you deposit and withdraw only
in cryptos.

I see the reasoning behind their decision, but I think practically you can
still continue to use their exchange, if you want to do it.

mk4

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Quote from: 2dogs on August 11, 2017, 04:16:48 PM

Bitfinex can go to hell.

What am I supposed to do with my portfolio on Bitfinex?

Maybe.. withdraw your portfolio? Grin

You're talking as if Bitfinex ran away with your cryptocurrencies. Make it a habit of reading the actual article(s) instead of just reading the headlines and react immediately. I really expect alot more from a legendary member.

Quote from: crazyivan on August 12, 2017, 02:12:02 AM

Well, I do see this as a bad think neither for US people not for the rest of us. If a service acts like that as is afraid of being taken down, this usually means they have something to hide or they re involved in some illegal shit. Why would I use that kind of service? Crypto s NOT about scamming people and doing market manipulation.

So I d say, fuck you Bitfinex. I m from Europe and your ban does not apply to me (yet) but you will not see a single satoshi from me.

I wouldn't jump into conclusions that fast. Don't forget that the US government can pull off random reasons just to shut down businesses, not to mention we're talking about cryptocurrencies here. Which they might see as competition or a threat to their fiat. Also, maybe they're gonna disallow US citizens because of the same reason why ICOs are not allowed in the US?

LeGaulois

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A fair decision for them. Honestly, in the same shoes, we would take the same decision. If they spend too many resources/effort to serve US customers while the revenues generated is very small then the company has no use to continue it (economically speaking). Be sure they are going to restrict more, or all ICO very soon

bitjoin

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Quote from: romani245 on August 12, 2017, 03:09:24 AM

Quote from: bitjoin on August 12, 2017, 03:03:55 AM

Excellent decision by finex its too risky to deal with USA who can shut you down at anytime they feel like it. It happened with poker before and im surprised exchanges have even been dealing with the US up to now anyway. This sucks for my fellow US crypto friends so i hope you find other solutions.

Exchanges continue to serve US residents because it's such a huge market. That's why Pokerstars did it, flouting the law the whole time. Bitfinex might say that verified US users are small part of their customer base (I don't even believe that). Unverified US customers definitely form a big part of their base. They are just trying to cover their ass.

Pokerstars doesn't serve the US anymore and years ago they said a similar thing that they didn't need the US customers to continue as the majourity of their revenue came from ROW. Maybe it is in some way covering their assess. I know pokerstars has done well since then. You have to ask yourself would you serve the US if you were an exchange?

romani245

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Quote from: bitjoin on August 12, 2017, 03:03:55 AM

Excellent decision by finex its too risky to deal with USA who can shut you down at anytime they feel like it. It happened with poker before and im surprised exchanges have even been dealing with the US up to now anyway. This sucks for my fellow US crypto friends so i hope you find other solutions.

Exchanges continue to serve US residents because it's such a huge market. That's why Pokerstars did it, flouting the law the whole time. Bitfinex might say that verified US users are small part of their customer base (I don't even believe that). Unverified US customers definitely form a big part of their base. They are just trying to cover their ass.

bitjoin

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Excellent decision by finex its too risky to deal with USA who can shut you down at anytime they feel like it. It happened with poker before and im surprised exchanges have even been dealing with the US up to now anyway. This sucks for my fellow US crypto friends so i hope you find other solutions.

romani245

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Quote from: crazyivan on August 12, 2017, 02:12:02 AM

Well, I do see this as a bad think neither for US people not for the rest of us. If a service acts like that as is afraid of being taken down, this usually means they have something to hide or they re involved in some illegal shit. Why would I use that kind of service? Crypto s NOT about scamming people and doing market manipulation.

So I d say, fuck you Bitfinex. I m from Europe and your ban does not apply to me (yet) but you will not see a single satoshi from me.

Yes, I would be very careful of them. I'd get my coins out now (if I still had any there). They have been showing red flags for a long time (starting with the hack which they still can't figure out, to their inability to process fiat). It's been so long now (5 months) since they could process payouts to customers that it's pretty reasonable to start questioning their solvency.

crazyivan

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Well, I do see this as a bad think neither for US people not for the rest of us. If a service acts like that as is afraid of being taken down, this usually means they have something to hide or they re involved in some illegal shit. Why would I use that kind of service? Crypto s NOT about scamming people and doing market manipulation.

So I d say, fuck you Bitfinex. I m from Europe and your ban does not apply to me (yet) but you will not see a single satoshi from me.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: xypos on August 12, 2017, 01:40:36 AM

Seems like that they are scared by the fact that BTC-e basically got brutally taken down by the US government, and they want to vaoid the US government as much as they can because they know that even with their KYC standards it might not be enough.

And plus as they said the effort and money put into handling US side of things is just too large.

Most of Bitfinex's users aren't even US citizens, meaning that discontinuing US users will lessen their profit, just not by a very large margin at all.

Just use some other exchange if you're in US and still want to trade. Most of them are still open for US, but some ban specific states.

I suspect more of the exchange's customers are US citizens than the exchange would like to admit. When they came back online last year, they made users indicate whether they resided in the US or not. I'm sure many clicked no. Apparently there were no repercussions based on IP address or anything like that. Based on the BTC-e indictment, the fact that they admit having US customers at all (without proper MSB licensing) may be a problem...

xypos

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Topic: Bitfinex is dropping their US customers - page 2. (Read 1833 times)