Topic: Bitfinex owners - stolen funds and ponzi schemes (Read 5491 times)

Quote from: Kysduckson on September 18, 2016, 03:08:36 AM

They just converted 1.1% of their BFX back. Just wow !

How much did they pay for the converted BFX? If that is below the face value, the investors/traders still lose money.

they paid out like $800k. that's meaningless, they held onto millions of dollars (as opposed to repaying customers) to keep in operations. that's where the 1% came from. look at their volume -- you think fees paid for that? the whole Bnktothefuture think is sketchy as hell. i would stay the hell away from this place...

good advice but there are so many brain washed.

Bitfinex and most of the other exchangers have FAKE volumes. Still, many are using them. Bitfinex will be closed soon.

i'm not even sure if they are faking volume -- it is incredibly low already. Tongue

a huge drop from their previous volume (as expected). but maybe it is pumped, even then. i do know some people trading there -- against my complaints -- so not everyone has left.

in time, i think these guys will be shut down (or voluntarily enter liquidation).

mayax

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Quote from: zenitzz on September 16, 2016, 04:11:21 AM

Quote from: redsun114 on August 26, 2016, 02:53:32 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2016, 03:32:29 AM

Quote from: zenitzz on September 16, 2016, 04:11:21 AM

Let's be honest. He's young, he might not have seen that much amount of Bitcoins in his life. Scamming the members would be an easy task, simulate a hack, and withdraw properly. You're done.

I'm not sure this happened this time (just wasn't following the full story), but something like this did happen with Mt.Gox, right? Also I heard similar stories about some darknet markets. Too bad some people still don't know that stealing is wrong.

Well, bitcoin is money, and with money, there's crime. And stealing is a crime so it's not something to be surprised of anymore. It is just feels a bit scary that this is kind of considered a fact now.

Yes I think there needs supervision to exchange site so they are not easily issued a statement that they have been hacked, which in fact we never know what really happened.

I think the exchanges should be regulated. They should be insured to do a business. It should be like Gemini.

correct! but as you can see there are so many brain washed who do not care about that and then, they are coming to complain that their funds are "stolen"

There are few others along Gemini. Itbit, Coinbase, Circle...all these are regulated(licensed).

Kysduckson

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Quote from: redsun114 on August 26, 2016, 02:53:32 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2016, 03:32:29 AM

Quote from: redsun114 on August 26, 2016, 02:53:32 AM

Let's be honest. He's young, he might not have seen that much amount of Bitcoins in his life. Scamming the members would be an easy task, simulate a hack, and withdraw properly. You're done.

I'm not sure this happened this time (just wasn't following the full story), but something like this did happen with Mt.Gox, right? Also I heard similar stories about some darknet markets. Too bad some people still don't know that stealing is wrong.

Well, bitcoin is money, and with money, there's crime. And stealing is a crime so it's not something to be surprised of anymore. It is just feels a bit scary that this is kind of considered a fact now.

Yes I think there needs supervision to exchange site so they are not easily issued a statement that they have been hacked, which in fact we never know what really happened.

I think the exchanges should be regulated. They should be insured to do a business. It should be like Gemini.

zenitzz

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Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2016, 03:32:29 AM

Quote from: aamarket on September 14, 2016, 08:58:36 AM

Let's be honest. He's young, he might not have seen that much amount of Bitcoins in his life. Scamming the members would be an easy task, simulate a hack, and withdraw properly. You're done.

I'm not sure this happened this time (just wasn't following the full story), but something like this did happen with Mt.Gox, right? Also I heard similar stories about some darknet markets. Too bad some people still don't know that stealing is wrong.

Well, bitcoin is money, and with money, there's crime. And stealing is a crime so it's not something to be surprised of anymore. It is just feels a bit scary that this is kind of considered a fact now.

Yes I think there needs supervision to exchange site so they are not easily issued a statement that they have been hacked, which in fact we never know what really happened.

Listent

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And how do you force them to close ? People still use Bitfinex.
https://www.bitfinex.com/stats

That is quite surprising.

aamarket

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And how do you force them to close ? People still use Bitfinex.
https://www.bitfinex.com/stats

mayax

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on September 13, 2016, 03:56:22 AM

Quote from: Kysduckson on September 08, 2016, 03:15:03 AM

Quote from: Kysduckson on September 08, 2016, 03:15:03 AM

They just converted 1.1% of their BFX back. Just wow !

How much did they pay for the converted BFX? If that is below the face value, the investors/traders still lose money.

they paid out like $800k. that's meaningless, they held onto millions of dollars (as opposed to repaying customers) to keep in operations. that's where the 1% came from. look at their volume -- you think fees paid for that? the whole Bnktothefuture think is sketchy as hell. i would stay the hell away from this place...

good advice but there are so many brain washed.

Bitfinex and most of the other exchangers have FAKE volumes. Still, many are using them. Bitfinex will be closed soon.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: .m. on September 08, 2016, 05:11:09 AM

They just converted 1.1% of their BFX back. Just wow !

How much did they pay for the converted BFX? If that is below the face value, the investors/traders still lose money.

they paid out like $800k. that's meaningless, they held onto millions of dollars (as opposed to repaying customers) to keep in operations. that's where the 1% came from. look at their volume -- you think fees paid for that? the whole Bnktothefuture think is sketchy as hell. i would stay the hell away from this place...

zenitzz

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What the reason they run ponzi schemes,they can benefit from the transaction fee from every transaction made. I was think they are already making huge profits by cut the cost for transaction.

mayax

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They did not have to "pay" - they created BFX from nothing, they just change numbers in database as they are pleased Wink

correct BUT it seems that they clients are happy with that. many idiots in this world ! Grin

.m.

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They did not have to "pay" - they created BFX from nothing, they just change numbers in database as they are pleased Wink

Kysduckson

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Quote from: bitkilo on August 26, 2016, 08:03:47 AM

They just converted 1.1% of their BFX back. Just wow !

How much did they pay for the converted BFX? If that is below the face value, the investors/traders still lose money.

.m.

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They just converted 1.1% of their BFX back. Just wow !

marky89

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The must have some sort of legal standing to do this, they wouldn't have done it without checking with the lawyers first.

Making all your customers take a 35% haircut even if they weren't affected by the hack seem wrong to me but they seem to think they can get away with that too.

Don't assume they have legal standing. Having a lawyer sign off on something doesn't mean you aren't breaking laws. You don't know the extent of their counsel's exposure to liability, and they may have recommended against this scheme.

If you read the terms of the BFX tokens, it is very hard to argue that they aren't securities. They are clearly some kind of bond, and possible a convertible bond (depending on the outcome of this equity talk). As such, issuing them to US customers was illegal, because they are unregistered securities. It's a criminal felony. It is likely illegal elsewhere as well, but you know, the US government is the world police, and if anyone is going to bring down Bitfinex, it's them.

Not sure if they will get away with the haircut, either. That was illegal asset conversion under any common law country (like Hong Kong, for example). A creditor needs to wait 21 days after issuing a statutory demand to Bitfinex before he can attempt to force them into bankruptcy. It is likely that no one served them the week of the hack... so it is possible we see attempts to force them into bankruptcy/lawsuits in the next couple weeks.

bitkilo

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Quote from: pearnapple on August 26, 2016, 07:38:29 AM

Quote from: mayax on August 25, 2016, 06:43:26 AM

Quote from: Kysduckson on August 25, 2016, 03:25:20 AM

Quote from: marky89 on August 13, 2016, 02:19:36 PM

Quote from: mayax on August 25, 2016, 06:43:26 AM

Bitfinex did not report anything to the Hong Kong police. They lied. There is no investigation from any authority yet.

You can call yourself the police from HK and they will confirm you that.

Well, that's no surprise. Bitfinex is interested in brushing this under the rug, not introducing more law enforcement agencies. They have said that the FBI and some European law enforcement agencies are investigating -- if you want to believe that.

I am more curious about the FBI or US Attorney's investigations into Bitfinex's actions. You can't serve US customers then flout US law. That will get your site shut down and bank accounts seized.

US Attorney's investigations will start once few US clients will make complaints that Bitfinex has stolen 35% from their money and that Bitfinex is issuing illegal securities like those shit tokens.

I thought the Bitfinex token is just a token, it is not a security. But the US law might think the situation differently.

a company cannot issue tokens just like that. that means ...issuing securities and Bitfinex did it out of any financial law...

what? they should know it that this is an illegal thing to do shouldnt they? i really doubt that it is not allowed thing

The must have some sort of legal standing to do this, they wouldn't have done it without checking with the lawyers first.

Making all your customers take a 35% haircut even if they weren't affected by the hack seem wrong to me but they seem to think they can get away with that too.

pearnapple

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Quote from: Kysduckson on August 25, 2016, 03:25:20 AM

Quote from: marky89 on August 13, 2016, 02:19:36 PM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2016, 03:32:29 AM

Bitfinex did not report anything to the Hong Kong police. They lied. There is no investigation from any authority yet.

You can call yourself the police from HK and they will confirm you that.

Well, that's no surprise. Bitfinex is interested in brushing this under the rug, not introducing more law enforcement agencies. They have said that the FBI and some European law enforcement agencies are investigating -- if you want to believe that.

I am more curious about the FBI or US Attorney's investigations into Bitfinex's actions. You can't serve US customers then flout US law. That will get your site shut down and bank accounts seized.

US Attorney's investigations will start once few US clients will make complaints that Bitfinex has stolen 35% from their money and that Bitfinex is issuing illegal securities like those shit tokens.

I thought the Bitfinex token is just a token, it is not a security. But the US law might think the situation differently.

a company cannot issue tokens just like that. that means ...issuing securities and Bitfinex did it out of any financial law...

what? they should know it that this is an illegal thing to do shouldnt they? i really doubt that it is not allowed thing

redsun114

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Quote from: Kysduckson on August 25, 2016, 03:25:20 AM

Let's be honest. He's young, he might not have seen that much amount of Bitcoins in his life. Scamming the members would be an easy task, simulate a hack, and withdraw properly. You're done.

I'm not sure this happened this time (just wasn't following the full story), but something like this did happen with Mt.Gox, right? Also I heard similar stories about some darknet markets. Too bad some people still don't know that stealing is wrong.

Well, bitcoin is money, and with money, there's crime. And stealing is a crime so it's not something to be surprised of anymore. It is just feels a bit scary that this is kind of considered a fact now.

mayax

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Quote from: marky89 on August 13, 2016, 02:19:36 PM

Bitfinex did not report anything to the Hong Kong police. They lied. There is no investigation from any authority yet.

You can call yourself the police from HK and they will confirm you that.

Well, that's no surprise. Bitfinex is interested in brushing this under the rug, not introducing more law enforcement agencies. They have said that the FBI and some European law enforcement agencies are investigating -- if you want to believe that.

I am more curious about the FBI or US Attorney's investigations into Bitfinex's actions. You can't serve US customers then flout US law. That will get your site shut down and bank accounts seized.

US Attorney's investigations will start once few US clients will make complaints that Bitfinex has stolen 35% from their money and that Bitfinex is issuing illegal securities like those shit tokens.

I thought the Bitfinex token is just a token, it is not a security. But the US law might think the situation differently.

a company cannot issue tokens just like that. that means ...issuing securities and Bitfinex did it out of any financial law...

Betwrong

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I stand with Ukraine.

Let's be honest. He's young, he might not have seen that much amount of Bitcoins in his life. Scamming the members would be an easy task, simulate a hack, and withdraw properly. You're done.

I'm not sure this happened this time (just wasn't following the full story), but something like this did happen with Mt.Gox, right? Also I heard similar stories about some darknet markets. Too bad some people still don't know that stealing is wrong.

Kysduckson

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Quote from: marky89 on August 13, 2016, 02:19:36 PM