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Topic: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC - page 2. (Read 52522 times)

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
June 29, 2012, 02:25:15 AM
They said USB coffee warmer (3.5GH), but they didn't say it gets powered without requiring an external power supply, or doesn't use a 2xUSB cable splitter to get twice the wattage, so we don't know for sure that it's 2 watts.
Yeah i'd like more clairification on this too, I've asked before, But other fourm members just quote apart of BFL's statement about the device, emblod a word and say "a USB powered coffee war-"

It really doesn't matter at this point anyway.  BFL has a tendency to be off on their initial estimates anyway.

The were spot on with the MiniRig.
vip
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
June 28, 2012, 11:45:01 PM
They said USB coffee warmer (3.5GH), but they didn't say it gets powered without requiring an external power supply, or doesn't use a 2xUSB cable splitter to get twice the wattage, so we don't know for sure that it's 2 watts.
Yeah i'd like more clairification on this too, I've asked before, But other fourm members just quote apart of BFL's statement about the device, emblod a word and say "a USB powered coffee war-"

It really doesn't matter at this point anyway.  BFL has a tendency to be off on their initial estimates anyway.
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001
Okey Dokey Lokey
June 28, 2012, 11:32:35 PM
They said USB coffee warmer (3.5GH), but they didn't say it gets powered without requiring an external power supply, or doesn't use a 2xUSB cable splitter to get twice the wattage, so we don't know for sure that it's 2 watts.
Yeah i'd like more clairification on this too, I've asked before, But other fourm members just quote apart of BFL's statement about the device, emblod a word and say "a USB powered coffee war-"
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
June 28, 2012, 07:55:11 PM
do you know the size of BitForce Single ‘SC’?Huh

A GIANT BOX?
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
BitMinter
June 28, 2012, 06:16:41 PM
I really thought inaba and gigavips were some solid supporters of this bitcoin project, but you're both looking like nothing more than pure profiteers.

You must be the voice of reason !
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
June 28, 2012, 05:07:42 PM
Well I'm doing more research specific to the state of missouri and am awaiting a response form the better business bureau. I have also contacted an attorney who specializes in this type of law to ascertain the legality of such practices. Kickstarter projects differ from what BFL is doing as far as I can tell.

I'll know for sure shortly depending on the response rate of the state of missouri and the attorney general's office, etc.

Maybe everyone else is fine with BFL's business practices, but I smell a rat here. If I'm wrong, well no harm done and everyone can carry on with their no interest loans. If I'm right then maybe they will be forced to engage in better business practices which should benefit everyone.

I'm baffled as to how people can believe this company is "on the level" when it took a demand from the community to get a simple clarification on their announced trade in policy.

You can't tell me they didn't already know how they planned on handling trade-ins before they made the announcement.

If so, then this is yet another example of a reckless announcement designed to hamper their competition and stall orders from competing vendors.

Once again, I am NOT anti ASIC, I'm anti poor business practices and this community and all consumers deserve better.

My purely academic view on this not to be construed in anyway as legal advice is:

I cannot think of anything that would make this practice illegal. You are under no obligation to enter into a purchase contract with BFL. It is their product to sell and as long as they do not make a material misrepresentation then deliver the product as promised then it seem like it would be a valid contract.

The elements of a valid offer include, Duration, Subject matter, Quantity, Quality, Work to Be Done, Price and Payment terms. There is bargained for exchange, namely the promise to send you a certain number of SC units, of a certain quality and quantity within a promised time frame in exchange for your payment. It is in essence an executory contract which you have performed on already by virtue of your payment and you are waiting for BFL to perform their side. If they fail to perform, you most certainly have a cause of action.

Even if their practices were actionable, you would not have a cause of action (in civil court) as you were not harmed (unless you ordered some already).  You could perhaps be a witness in a criminal action by the state or federal government if they decided to prosecute them for some type of illegal behavior, but again, I do not see anything illegal about their ordering process. You may not like it, but unhappiness with a contract process is not valid grounds for a tort action.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
June 28, 2012, 12:46:03 PM
They said USB coffee warmer (3.5GH), but they didn't say it gets powered without requiring an external power supply, or doesn't use a 2xUSB cable splitter to get twice the wattage, so we don't know for sure that it's 2 watts.
legendary
Activity: 1221
Merit: 1025
e-ducat.fr
June 28, 2012, 12:34:24 PM
The SC probably has 10 ASIC and if you do the 2W for USB calculation it gives you 40GH/s for 20W! If this is true, it's a complete game changer!

Do we have a number for the power consumption claim ? How many hashes per Joule ? 20 MH/J ? I can't find this parameter in the thread nor in the BFL docs. 20 GH/J does not sound realistic..
hero member
Activity: 535
Merit: 500
June 28, 2012, 02:05:22 AM
Well I'm doing more research specific to the state of missouri and am awaiting a response form the better business bureau. I have also contacted an attorney who specializes in this type of law to ascertain the legality of such practices. Kickstarter projects differ from what BFL is doing as far as I can tell.

I'll know for sure shortly depending on the response rate of the state of missouri and the attorney general's office, etc.

Maybe everyone else is fine with BFL's business practices, but I smell a rat here. If I'm wrong, well no harm done and everyone can carry on with their no interest loans. If I'm right then maybe they will be forced to engage in better business practices which should benefit everyone.

I'm baffled as to how people can believe this company is "on the level" when it took a demand from the community to get a simple clarification on their announced trade in policy.

You can't tell me they didn't already know how they planned on handling trade-ins before they made the announcement.

If so, then this is yet another example of a reckless announcement designed to hamper their competition and stall orders from competing vendors.

Once again, I am NOT anti ASIC, I'm anti poor business practices and this community and all consumers deserve better.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
June 27, 2012, 10:29:43 PM

YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.


I am not aware of such a law.  Is this a federal law? or a state law?

It's definitely not illegal. If it was illegal, then every single kickstarter project is illegal.
It might not be very consumer friendly, but it's not illegal. No one is forcing you to buy their products.


Can't comment on the legality of it. The short of it is UCC law is not adopted in full by every state. And each state has their own consumer laws. Only way to know for sure would be to first contact the Secretary of State for MO(http://www.sos.mo.gov/categories.asp?id=2) and ask if a merchant located in their state would fall under their rules or under the rule of the state they are registered in....

Kickstarter money and a company taking money for a product are 2 different things. On kickstarter it is very clear up front that you are paying the seed money to get the idea, project or product funded.
donator
Activity: 1654
Merit: 1351
Creator of Litecoin. Cryptocurrency enthusiast.
June 27, 2012, 10:24:52 PM

YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.


I am not aware of such a law.  Is this a federal law? or a state law?

It's definitely not illegal. If it was illegal, then every single kickstarter project is illegal.
It might not be very consumer friendly, but it's not illegal. No one is forcing you to buy their products.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000
June 27, 2012, 10:13:58 PM

YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.


I am not aware of such a law.  Is this a federal law? or a state law?
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
June 27, 2012, 09:50:44 PM
How do you know how fast they are getting responses?

Did you ever stop to consider that perhaps they are just a little more patient than you?
hero member
Activity: 535
Merit: 500
June 27, 2012, 09:48:58 PM
Yeah don't support an open source community project so we can profit more.

I really thought inaba and gigavips were some solid supporters of this bitcoin project, but you're both looking like nothing more than pure profiteers.

No one begrudges you guys an opportunity to make money on your investment, but you can't ignore the fact that both of you are shamelessly supporting a company with unethical and illegal business practices.

YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.

It is also illegal for them to not allow you to ask for e refund if you choose to do so. A small deposit which is non-refundable is perfectly legal, full payment is NOT within the law.

Both of you also have an "insider" relationship with BFL which is obvious from how quickly you both get responses, etc.

I'm sure you'll both be receiving your 1 TH rigs within the first 4-5 units shipped as well.

Good luck, but remember you might be mining worthless coins if this type of pyramid scheme shit becomes the norm for bitcoin vendors.
sr. member
Activity: 344
Merit: 250
June 27, 2012, 10:54:03 AM
They've said somewhere in some thread (can't find it), if you placed the order on 23th, get the mail on the 26th, paid on the 27th, you paid in 1 day and ordered at 23th so placed at 24th in the queue.

I haven't seen that anywhere... could you attempt to find it again?

You can check here:

We have an announcement to make regarding all our customers who chose bank-wire as payment method for our SC series. Based on our policy, the order date is locked in when the actual funds arrive in our bank account. In this process, however, we will not count the days it took us to send wire info to the customer. In other words, if you have ordered on 15th of the month, and received wire instruction on 21st and finally the money arrives in our account on 23rd, your official order date will be 17th (15th + 2 days delay between receiving the wire info from us and funds arrival).

Clients who still have not received wire info should not be concerned, as we only count the delay it took them to wire the funds from the day wire instruction was sent to them.

Please let us know if you have any questions in this regard.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.
sr. member
Activity: 295
Merit: 250
June 27, 2012, 10:51:23 AM
They've said somewhere in some thread (can't find it), if you placed the order on 23th, get the mail on the 26th, paid on the 27th, you paid in 1 day and ordered at 23th so placed at 24th in the queue.

I haven't seen that anywhere... could you attempt to find it again?
hero member
Activity: 1596
Merit: 502
June 27, 2012, 08:51:13 AM
They've said somewhere in some thread (can't find it), if you placed the order on 23th, get the mail on the 26th, paid on the 27th, you paid in 1 day and ordered at 23th so placed at 24th in the queue.
hero member
Activity: 956
Merit: 1001
June 27, 2012, 08:45:42 AM
I've placed a large order to be paid by bank wire several days ago.  Email sent by BFL states that I will be contacted with bank wire information within 1 business day.
That was 4 days ago.  Has anyone else attempted to place an order with bank wire?
hero member
Activity: 743
Merit: 500
June 26, 2012, 04:46:07 PM
It looks like a good competition BFL <> OpenBitASIC  Grin
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
June 26, 2012, 03:24:38 PM
You should definitely wait for OpenBitASIC.  We don't really need anyone else taking up more order slots, so please do wait!  Thanks!

+1
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