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Topic: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC - page 27. (Read 52532 times)

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
May 28, 2012, 07:13:49 AM
#63
Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink

All I can say at this point is that our units will have different models and will be affordable for general public. 100K$ is not affordable
for general public, and is not a good price reference.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I'm assuming you're going to be producing Singles 2.0 and trading those for Single 1.0s.

seems that way, but what are they going to do with the old singles?

That's the question I am very interested in  Smiley

May sound crazy, but as their ASIC is custom made by them, then possibly they could desolder the FPGA and solder an ASIC in it's place, in which case the Singles could be reused and re-modified.

FPGA can then be resold in the second hand market (as already being done with such chips)
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
May 28, 2012, 07:11:13 AM
#62
Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink

All I can say at this point is that our units will have different models and will be affordable for general public. 100K$ is not affordable
for general public, and is not a good price reference.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I'm assuming you're going to be producing Singles 2.0 and trading those for Single 1.0s.

seems that way, but what are they going to do with the old singles?
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 28, 2012, 07:02:38 AM
#61
Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink

All I can say at this point is that our units will have different models and will be affordable for general public. 100K$ is not affordable
for general public, and is not a good price reference.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I'm assuming you're going to be producing Singles 2.0 and trading those for Single 1.0s.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2012, 07:00:35 AM
#60

Pardon?

I was saying I don't like to sign NDAs but MIGHT be willing to in this instance...
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2012, 06:52:35 AM
#59
Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink

All I can say at this point is that our units will have different models and will be affordable for general public. 100K$ is not affordable
for general public, and is not a good price reference.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

Different models: that is very interesting from a small miner point of view, but also for the security of the network !

I like it !!!
full member
Activity: 227
Merit: 100
May 28, 2012, 06:50:21 AM
#58
Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink

All I can say at this point is that our units will have different models and will be affordable for general public. 100K$ is not affordable
for general public, and is not a good price reference.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2012, 06:45:24 AM
#57
Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
May 28, 2012, 06:36:19 AM
#56
Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
May 28, 2012, 06:30:24 AM
#55
It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.

Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.

Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.

So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000


The price you've mentioned is way too high...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

The price is high.... but the GH/s is spot on? :p
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2012, 06:29:11 AM
#54
It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.

Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.

Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.

So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000

At that price they effectively won't be trading in many singles....

"Hi I would like to trade in my 2 singles and here's a cheque for $273.800, please send me my ASIC"  Grin

I bid 10 cents on the $ per single btw  Wink
full member
Activity: 227
Merit: 100
May 28, 2012, 06:23:29 AM
#53
It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.

Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.

Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.

So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000


The price you've mentioned is way too high...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
May 28, 2012, 06:18:40 AM
#52
It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.

Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.

Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.

So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
May 28, 2012, 04:40:47 AM
#51
what a competition...

bfl makes desktop solutions for miners (small and medium size)
bitfury makes industrial size solutions for miners (mini and mainframe size)

why try both of them to compare their products ?
their costumers differ a little bit, isn't it?

i am very curious about the news/things following the annoucement of bfl.
and of course the next product of bitfury. (i not expect that the 110Gh/s machine is the end of their doing)

good luck!
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 28, 2012, 04:24:48 AM
#50
One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear.

A great care was taken and the units are planned to be very silent.
It is another important feature of very low power consumption.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I, on the other hand, hope that the fan speeds are controllable without hacking, as I'd like to rev up the fans to keep everything cooler thus increasing the lifespan of the products.

Well, if its that low power, a low RPM 12v 120mm fan undervolted to 5v probably could keep chip temps in the 40Cs and be silent enough that people could sleep around it.
hero member
Activity: 1596
Merit: 502
May 28, 2012, 04:24:15 AM
#49
What is the post ASIC era, anyway?  I have been trying to figure that out.  Quantum Computing?

Bitforce QC - Infinite Hashes, Power draw from Quantum Foam.
What I remember, but can't a source right now, is that finding a collision for hashing algorithms like sha256 would cut the time needed from 2^256 to 2^128.
So it would still take a long time, and bitcoin block/share finding is not really a collision but just a small hash value, so I don't know if thats the same.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's a GPU?
May 28, 2012, 04:03:19 AM
#48
One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear.

A great care was taken and the units are planned to be very silent.
It is another important feature of very low power consumption.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I, on the other hand, hope that the fan speeds are controllable without hacking, as I'd like to rev up the fans to keep everything cooler thus increasing the lifespan of the products.
full member
Activity: 227
Merit: 100
May 28, 2012, 03:50:29 AM
#47
One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear.

A great care was taken and the units are planned to be very silent.
It is another important feature of very low power consumption.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 28, 2012, 03:45:10 AM
#46
One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear.
full member
Activity: 227
Merit: 100
May 28, 2012, 03:37:31 AM
#45
One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's a GPU?
May 28, 2012, 01:29:53 AM
#44
I'm watching this development with interest.  I also wonder what the specs and price of an ASIC based Single would be.

I was planning on placing an order for more BFL Singles, but I might hold off a bit to think about it.  Even if there's a trade-in later on, international shipping both ways and down-time aren't trivial.


A viable option for you could be to have me maintain your FPGAs for 15% of their mining revenue.

I'm in the US and already maintain tons of x6500s, so it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

Let me know if you're interested!
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