Topic: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC - page 29. (Read 52532 times)

Fuck NDAs, and fuck proprietary technologies. I'm proud to be supporting the first and only open-source ASIC creation spearheaded by Jason et al.

I am supremely interested.  

I do wonder though if having an inflexible mining appliance is really that wise.  Couldn't necessary changes to the Bitcoin code render these pretty useless?  It's not like any of us can see the future.

With that trade-in offer I suspect that this thing will be *very* expensive, although I hope they can do something along the lines of the singles vs. mini-rig for a product lineup.

Of course all the little guys like me can just sell their singles to the highest bidder (for them to trade in)  

Whatever the means other than ASIC: finding a block must be done within a time-frame of 10 minutes. Otherwise the data is dead on arrival. This currently rules out a few computational approaches which require a long preparation time (staging the data).

I'd say it can do 10Gh/s with 10w of power.

You have not undermined them, as mining only small part of plan and reason is to get secure p2p currency. I assume you agree that mining is CORE security of BitCoin and BitCoin-like networks. Also mining-related business is nice way to make public contact and show that you actually have something. Possibly you could even help us, if you get this ASIC right way, it depends on you however, but your business conduct shows to me that you are more in rush for money, and pretty scared to be behind marketing-wise, that's why you put that pre-order stuff all the way etc. That's correct choice generally, but if your claims are well-backed and you really worked hard to met what you put in your ads... When not met, like your first tryout with BFL single - it damages reputation then, so many people would think that you'll do ponzi games with this buy-in offer... However ponzi schemes are even more profitable than bitcoins )) MMM-2011 proves that - about 30 billions in one year .... )))

It depends on how you will do then with that ASIC. Because what you'll end up - invested a lot of money into tech and getting chips at low cost, but you still has to return your NRE costs, and still you could benefit 51% attack for you and/or your private investors under NDA, while selling to public buyers with NRE costs included. As hashing power is basically untraceable it would be very hard to know actually what happens and that impose a security risk.

Currently it is just $5 Mio to make 51% + risks that I can buy hash power say paying 200% PPS directly for attack. Then it will be $XX Mio to make 51% + risk of massive hash power buy + your company having ASIC NDA that can make chip for pennies, but still has return NRE costs and selling it at "market" price par-to-par with FPGA prices that board vendors could get :-) But for being safe, truly - either algorithm should be changed, but not the way like Scrypt, OR ASIC should be widely available and with current way fabs work we smash into the WALL :-)

Ahh. I forgot also about another security risk - http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dw_homepage.html ... Commercial, not military indeed :-) But this CAN BE MITIGATED :-) Although different crypto-system should be deployed.... With FPGAs - we can reprogram them, while with ASICs... hmmm...

Then what ? We need p2p currency for a project that abandoned but still actual long time ago.... This is the thing that Satoshi invented but we couldn't... We were not that smart, skillful and lucky... Bad that there's no contact with him... But maybe, when real wars with Goliath begins he reappear, there's not much skillful people :-)

What we do then in need of p2p currency but high security risks, how you think ? ;-)


Yes, but you have put 20 W / 1 Gh/s unit when started taking pre-orders and then it was 80 W / 800 Mh/s unit. That's significant difference. That's not we did... We haven't took a penny from anyone here :-)

Same could happen with buy-back offer.... And with long-term usage of your devices etc...


Well. It is just about claim - not structured asic, but full custom asic, etc etc :-)


That hostility is the result of your business behavior. Already mentioned several times in this message.

Why would we start own device and not just contact you and ask for one of yours ? We've thought first, but
when looked on small-sized item with 20W without cooling and PREORDER button we thought that it's pure SCAM
and one who drawn that didn't know that it would be extremely hot... Why would we expect anything DIFFERENT then ?

Now we're inside and probe exactly how things are with mining, etc... As it is difficult to analyze true security of network other way and give correct predictions.


Kind regards,
BitFury Group

Ice, the trade in upgrades are dollar for dollar not hash for hash.  The objective is to ensure our customers suffer no hardware depreciation as a result of our new product release.  Hash for Hash wouldn't achieve that goal unless it was Hash for Hash in a then and now relative basis...  which we seriously considered as an alternate method.  In the end, dollar for dollar is the simplest way to achieve the goal.

What is the post ASIC era, anyway?  I have been trying to figure that out.  Quantum Computing?

Bitforce QC - Infinite Hashes, Power draw from Quantum Foam.

Nice try

It looks to me that BFL does the reverse-Apple strategy:

First announce a revolutionary product, and then try to achieve it - somehow. I guess the benefit is that this discourages the competition a little bit. But in the long run this is a liability for reputation.

Any plans for the post-asic era?

I hate NDAs but....

As do I.

Great news though!

Very interesting news.

Let me first say that I deeply respect the work you've done.  I really mean that.  It's spectacular and we're deeply impressed.  So believe me when I say that we take no pleasure in undermining your plans.  

As you know, you've only announced yourself within the last week or so while we've been working on our full product range in public view for 10 months.  The SC product plan and it's timing has been illustrated on our product lineup page that full time.  

We started out under attack from similar comments like yours above...   it's deja vu.  I think your first post was met with similar sarcasm.  That's just how it is.  You've got to take your lumps in the public forum.  Even the good Ngzhang once publicly accused us of being a scam product.  In sum, we've seen all this before and we're past it.  We've since shipped a quantity of product into the field that would surprise most people.  So if you want to cast doubt, go right ahead.  Honestly, we expect nothing less.  

I would hope that at some point the hostility becomes unnecessary.

Best regards,
BFL

Buy in sound doggy ?

I assume you are not trading in the cost, but rather performance ? So you send them the MINI-RIG based on 17 modules, and they send you a single chip ASIC that has similar performance ?

As long as I can trade in my singles against asic singles everything is ok

We're scared full custom ASIC is great!!!!! You would invest probably more than whole BTC worth then if you would go with say 45-nm!!!! You are serious player  I think this is the time, when security of SHA256 for block-chain generation should be .... IMPROVED   But let's go step by step  First deliver mini-rigs with nice performance and cost, then ASIC, then do buy-in, and then everything would be secure, under NDA of course Or ? Will you start again taking money for future product with "variable" performance ?   

Very interesting. It will be interesting to see what the performance numbers and timeline are in June, and what they end up being once customers get them in hand.

One RIG to rule them all, one RIG to find them, One RIG to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

Depending on size and cost of unit per mh I may actually have a reason to import a couple