Topic: [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace + Rewritable Options Trading - page 15. (Read 129487 times)
October 24, 2013, 04:27:22 AM
Waiting for verification and my missing money to be moved... Grrr.
October 24, 2013, 03:40:32 AM
Please prove, that you can follow EU personal information protection guide lines and can guarantee the safety of personal information sent to you.
yes pls October 24, 2013, 02:42:44 AM
have been waiting verification on weexchange for 15 days now?
!!!! how long is this going to take??
!!!! how long is this going to take?? 
October 24, 2013, 02:26:02 AM
" All current BitFunder users who are not United States persons or entities must supply the information required to obtain "Verified" status on their linked WeExchange account before November 1, 2013. Any such users who fail to provide the necessary information will not be able to enter into or sell positions on the BitFunder website as of November 1, 2013."
Ukyo, you are asking for personal information or you will screw people over by locking their accounts. (what will that prove or fix what ever you are attempting to?)
Please prove, that you can follow EU personal information protection guide lines and can guarantee the safety of personal information sent to you.
PS! There are multiple threads and post regarding SEC and US citizen running a exchange. SEC has nothing to do with you and your exchange, unless you are a from US. So, what is going on? If I recall, you are in China?
Ukyo, you are asking for personal information or you will screw people over by locking their accounts. (what will that prove or fix what ever you are attempting to?)
Please prove, that you can follow EU personal information protection guide lines and can guarantee the safety of personal information sent to you.
PS! There are multiple threads and post regarding SEC and US citizen running a exchange. SEC has nothing to do with you and your exchange, unless you are a from US. So, what is going on? If I recall, you are in China?
October 24, 2013, 12:39:02 AM
If he is in the U.S. he must register as a broker / dealer to operate Bitfunder, whether he allows U.S. residents to participate or not.
What I don't understand is why does he not register? The person who bites the bullet and offers the first US legal Bitcoin stock exchange stands to become billionaire rich over the next decade. People join startups and risk 5 years of their life for an opportunity such as this. Ukyo stands to gain so much if he navigated the system instead of playing games.
Anyway, once the crowdfunding law comes into effect someone will dominate this space, be that Bitfunder or someone else.
The crowdfunding regs have nothing to do with operating an exchange. And far from making an exchange owner rich, the new regs are probably the final nail in the coffin of BTC securities. If the regs make it significantly easier to raise money, few companies will choose to limit themselves by issuing BTC denominated securities. They will issue in USD to take advantage of the larger (by orders of magnitude) market of investors.
As for Bitfunder, any BTC exchange would have to comply with the same rules and regulations as existing USD broker-dealers. Specifically:
Quote
A broker-dealer may not begin business until:
it has properly filed Form BD, and the SEC has granted its registration;
it has become a member of an SRO [Self Regulatory Agency];
it has become a member of SIPC, the Securities Investor Protection Corporation;
it complies with all applicable state requirements; and
its "associated persons" have satisfied applicable qualification requirements.
Link: http://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/bdguide.htm#III
it has properly filed Form BD, and the SEC has granted its registration;
it has become a member of an SRO [Self Regulatory Agency];
it has become a member of SIPC, the Securities Investor Protection Corporation;
it complies with all applicable state requirements; and
its "associated persons" have satisfied applicable qualification requirements.
Link: http://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/bdguide.htm#III
Bottom line: there isn't enough money in it to run a compliant BTC securities exchange. The market is too small and it will be even smaller when companies can crowdfund in USD.
October 23, 2013, 03:48:44 PM
So, is the new JOBS Act good for us in bitcoin securities?
October 23, 2013, 01:25:29 PM
Please Crumbs, when was the last time SEC vetted the business models of the companies listed on public exchanges in the US?
Clearly thats not the job of the SEC and similar organisations all over the world, but what registering securities with them does guarantee is precisely whats been lacking with bitcoin securities: transparency. A registered security at least guarantees you know who you are dealing with (Labcoin anyone?), it guarantees the issuer makes public all kinds of relevant information regarding the business, business plan, financials etc so that investor can actually make a rational decision and doesnt have to gamble on it being yet another scam or not.
Of course that doesnt help too much if these securities trade on platforms that close their doors one day for whatever reason, possibly taking customer funds with them, hence a need to trade them on regulated exchanges. Now thats going to be a tall order for a bitcoin venture, but perhaps the crowd funding legislation you alluded to in your next post will make this more viable. I certainly hope so. Right now the bitcoin security (misnomer if there ever was one) scene is more akin to a casino on second life, than a true investment market.
October 23, 2013, 09:58:29 AM
I see nothing wrong with a exchange offering securities where it is up to the investor to make decisions.
Of course it's up to the investor to make decisions. But about securities. Securities, not the half-baked fantasies of people with nothing to offer gluing plumage to themselves in an effort to look like fine birds.
Kickstarter is not securities. School fundraisers are not securities. Hopeful people whose qualifications consist of "passion" are not securities issuers. So long as the twain are mod-podged into meeting, "underestimations" will be made, "unfortunate" "winding downs" will be had, and plenty of noobs will imagine it's "because government".
Again:
So, we've all had our fun scoffing at regulators, but now that we've got that out of our system (and our portfolio's are down 60%) are we ready to make a regulated US exchange?
No. If you want regulated US stuff check out the dollar, it might be more up your alley.
This would have the perks of inviting more liquidity from larger market participants, as well as more stability and predictability.
Playing around with other experiments such as decentralized exchanges and colored coins just invites unpredictable illiquidity and instability.
The Securities and Exchange Commissions offers plenty of regulatory exemptions for the kinds/sizes of companies that have so far "IPO'd" in bitcoin land, the exchanges might have a more uphill battle but its time to cross the bridge
Playing around with other experiments such as decentralized exchanges and colored coins just invites unpredictable illiquidity and instability.
The Securities and Exchange Commissions offers plenty of regulatory exemptions for the kinds/sizes of companies that have so far "IPO'd" in bitcoin land, the exchanges might have a more uphill battle but its time to cross the bridge
Like many people posting about this stuff lately, you seem a bit confused as to what the problem is, and what solutions exist.
Have a read.
October 23, 2013, 07:02:26 AM
You really don't understand how regulation works.
I will use ActM as an example;
If this new law existed right now and allowed Ken the freedom to register ActM on a kickstarter style exchange, I see no issues with this. The regulation makes sure Ken is not lying and scamming, but the regulation does not do much about companies failing.
For example, ActM is not a scam but rather a failing company because they underestimated the difficulty increases that have occurred. Nothing about ActM has been illegal in the hypothetical universe where the US is not so stiff about mini exchanges listing small companies with public facing stock.
If the US starts to allow these "indie" exchanges and allow small companies to easily and legally list their stock, ActM could even move onto one of them. In fact many Bitcoin investments will be legitimized in the near future.
October 23, 2013, 06:54:18 AM
The problem with your reasoning is no, everyone doesn't know how risky their "investments" are. Pirateat40 investors didn't, "insured pass-through" investors didn't, and, judging by the wailing & gnashing of teeth everywhere from ActM to Cloudhashing to Labcoin to choose-your-stock, those "investors" didn't either.
I see nothing wrong with a exchange offering securities where it is up to the investor to make decisions.
I can trade forex and on the NASDAQ with no one telling me what to do or someone telling me I must go back to the Xbox because this is too risky for me, if this is the case why can we not have an exchange offering similar odds but for far smaller companies?
Also I can buy facebook and soon twitter shares, the SEC does not do the due diligence for me, the SEC has determined that they are not cooking books and that they are not lying in the reports and that seems to be the extent. The SEC is not being a nanny, many companies during the dot com bubble failed and that was just nature.
The only difference here is that setting up a company to list on an established exchange is too expensive for the potential gains, and this new law seeks to rectify that issue.
Please Crumbs, when was the last time SEC vetted the business models of the companies listed on public exchanges in the US?
You really don't understand how regulation works. Sure, honest companies on real exchanges fail, and even dishonest companies slip through the cracks. Government thugs can't protect you from every scammer, they merely weed out the boldest & most blatant, like the goofiness masquerading as stocks here.
That said, we're shitting up this thread. Start a new one, and i'll gladly continue there.
October 23, 2013, 06:43:16 AM
The problem with your reasoning is no, everyone doesn't know how risky their "investments" are. Pirateat40 investors didn't, "insured pass-through" investors didn't, and, judging by the wailing & gnashing of teeth everywhere from ActM to Cloudhashing to Labcoin to choose-your-stock, those "investors" didn't either.
I see nothing wrong with a exchange offering securities where it is up to the investor to make decisions.
I can trade forex and on the NASDAQ with no one telling me what to do or someone telling me I must go back to the Xbox because this is too risky for me, if this is the case why can we not have an exchange offering similar odds but for far smaller companies?
Also I can buy facebook and soon twitter shares, the SEC does not do the due diligence for me, the SEC has determined that they are not cooking books and that they are not lying in the reports and that seems to be the extent. The SEC is not being a nanny, many companies during the dot com bubble failed and that was just nature.
The only difference here is that setting up a company to list on an established exchange is too expensive for the potential gains, and this new law seeks to rectify that issue.
Please Crumbs, when was the last time SEC vetted the business models of the companies listed on public exchanges in the US?
October 23, 2013, 06:36:10 AM
The average time before bitcoin-denominated stock fails or is shown proven to be a scam is ~ 1/2 a year.
This lends itself to, as you say, "playing games," but becomes a headache with government regulations in place.
This lends itself to, as you say, "playing games," but becomes a headache with government regulations in place.
If the new law allows companies to advertise stock to the public whilst being risky then I see no issue. I imagine the system will be in a similar vein to Kickstarter, where instead of just backing the company with donations you can invest instead.
Because this is open to the consumer it is up to the consumer to do due diligence.
Kickstarters fail all the time, everyone knows the risk they take when they lay down cash.
If the new law allows companies to be formed in that fashion, I see no issues with failed stock. Companies do fail all the time, in fact that vast majority of businesses will not survive past a year, its not just unique to Bitcoin.
The exchange will have to tell the user the vast majority of companies fail, and thats just plain nature, no other way about it.
The problem with your reasoning is no, everyone doesn't know how risky their "investments" are. Pirateat40 investors didn't, "insured pass-through" investors didn't, and, judging by the wailing & gnashing of teeth everywhere from ActM to Cloudhashing to Labcoin to choose-your-stock, those "investors" didn't either.
Regulations didn't come about because granny was happily investing in HYIPs & everyone was making monyz. The government, and the moneyed elite, having cultivated a sustainable source of profit (you), and harvested in a responsible, sustainable fashion, were weary of the poachers who decimated the heard. These poachers were not your friends, they weren't revolutionaries championing the rights of the cattle -- they were poachers. They had to be curbed, for both your & your master's sakes.
The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend -- he could be your enemy, too.
October 23, 2013, 06:03:00 AM
Hey guys,
Sorry, been very busy with many many things going on.
At the same time I have been fighting problems with bitcoind and rpc timeouts.
Weex already had a huge backlog of tickets, and this has not helped at all, we are trying to work through all requests as soon as possible.
If you have an issue with your account please open a ticket and it will be worked on as soon as it can be got to.
Many users have already had their issues fixed.
-Ukyo
Sorry, been very busy with many many things going on.
At the same time I have been fighting problems with bitcoind and rpc timeouts.
Weex already had a huge backlog of tickets, and this has not helped at all, we are trying to work through all requests as soon as possible.
If you have an issue with your account please open a ticket and it will be worked on as soon as it can be got to.
Many users have already had their issues fixed.
-Ukyo
October 23, 2013, 06:02:50 AM
The average time before bitcoin-denominated stock fails or is shown proven to be a scam is ~ 1/2 a year.
This lends itself to, as you say, "playing games," but becomes a headache with government regulations in place.
This lends itself to, as you say, "playing games," but becomes a headache with government regulations in place.
If the new law allows companies to advertise stock to the public whilst being risky then I see no issue. I imagine the system will be in a similar vein to Kickstarter, where instead of just backing the company with donations you can invest instead.
Because this is open to the consumer it is up to the consumer to do due diligence.
Kickstarters fail all the time, everyone knows the risk they take when they lay down cash.
If the new law allows companies to be formed in that fashion, I see no issues with failed stock. Companies do fail all the time, in fact that vast majority of businesses will not survive past a year, its not just unique to Bitcoin.
The exchange will have to tell the user the vast majority of companies fail, and thats just plain nature, no other way about it.
October 23, 2013, 05:57:16 AM
If he is in the U.S. he must register as a broker / dealer to operate Bitfunder, whether he allows U.S. residents to participate or not.
What I don't understand is why does he not register? The person who bites the bullet and offers the first US legal Bitcoin stock exchange stands to become billionaire rich over the next decade. People join startups and risk 5 years of their life for an opportunity such as this. Ukyo stands to gain so much if he navigated the system instead of playing games.
Anyway, once the crowdfunding law comes into effect someone will dominate this space, be that Bitfunder or someone else.
The obvious problem is none of the securities on offer are registered, so becoming a licensed exchange is sort-a pointless
Except the new law would make registering securities on kickstarter like websites far easier. I am suggesting Ukyo prepare for this change in law and take advantage of it.
If this law comes into effect, making many of our stocks legal is within reason.
The average time before bitcoin-denominated stock fails or is
This lends itself to, as you say, "playing games," but becomes a headache with government regulations in place.
October 23, 2013, 05:29:09 AM
I wonder where Ukyo is?
Only two posts since September...
I hope he is not preparing for a shutdown, I really wish he would come online.
Quote
October 12, 2013, 04:48:04 AM
October 12, 2013, 04:46:24 AM
September 30, 2013, 10:36:57 AM
October 12, 2013, 04:46:24 AM
September 30, 2013, 10:36:57 AM
Only two posts since September...
I hope he is not preparing for a shutdown, I really wish he would come online.
October 23, 2013, 05:27:02 AM
If he is in the U.S. he must register as a broker / dealer to operate Bitfunder, whether he allows U.S. residents to participate or not.
What I don't understand is why does he not register? The person who bites the bullet and offers the first US legal Bitcoin stock exchange stands to become billionaire rich over the next decade. People join startups and risk 5 years of their life for an opportunity such as this. Ukyo stands to gain so much if he navigated the system instead of playing games.
Anyway, once the crowdfunding law comes into effect someone will dominate this space, be that Bitfunder or someone else.
The obvious problem is none of the securities on offer are registered, so becoming a licensed exchange is sort-a pointless
Except the new law would make registering securities on kickstarter like websites far easier. I am suggesting Ukyo prepare for this change in law and take advantage of it.
If this law comes into effect, making many of our stocks legal is within reason.
October 23, 2013, 05:25:19 AM
If he is in the U.S. he must register as a broker / dealer to operate Bitfunder, whether he allows U.S. residents to participate or not.
What I don't understand is why does he not register? The person who bites the bullet and offers the first US legal Bitcoin stock exchange stands to become billionaire rich over the next decade. People join startups and risk 5 years of their life for an opportunity such as this. Ukyo stands to gain so much if he navigated the system instead of playing games.
Anyway, once the crowdfunding law comes into effect someone will dominate this space, be that Bitfunder or someone else.
The obvious problem is none of the securities on offer are registered, so becoming a licensed exchange is sort-a pointless
It's turtles all the way down.
October 23, 2013, 05:16:17 AM
If he is in the U.S. he must register as a broker / dealer to operate Bitfunder, whether he allows U.S. residents to participate or not.
What I don't understand is why does he not register? The person who bites the bullet and offers the first US legal Bitcoin stock exchange stands to become billionaire rich over the next decade. People join startups and risk 5 years of their life for an opportunity such as this. Ukyo stands to gain so much if he navigated the system instead of playing games.
Anyway, once the crowdfunding law comes into effect someone will dominate this space, be that Bitfunder or someone else.
October 23, 2013, 03:56:54 AM
Add me to the list of people who cannot move money out of weexchange. It's been sat there processing for hours. Never had this problem before.
And there are also people PMing me about this. They agree that WeExchange is not reliable anymore......
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