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Topic: [BitFunder] My name is Bond. MPOE Bond. ( Jan: 9.99%, Feb: 4.8% Mar: -23%) - page 2. (Read 9042 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
If bot lost money, YOU (bond holder) loose your invested principal and promised %?
Is this bot writing naked calls?


I'll put you out of your misery.

The calls and puts aren't naked - they're covered by the bond-holders money (with MP covering the rest when there's not enough raised from bondholders).  I'm puzzled what you thought the bonds were being sold for if the cash wasn't being used to cover the options - to give money away for free?. 

All settlements are in BTC - so BTC can cover both sides of the trade.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500

2 simple questions:
1) Is this bot writing naked calls
2) If bot lost money, YOU (bond holder) loose your invested principal and promised %?


That's one question and statement, which, ironically, contains your answer.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank
off topic bullshit from the village idiot, aka MPOE-PRBS removed

2 simple questions:
1) Is this bot writing naked calls
2) If bot lost money, YOU (bond holder) loose your invested principal and promised %?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
If bot lost money, YOU (bond holder) loose your invested principal and promised %?
Is this bot writing naked calls?

If you could find the time to release a proper report for your ART scamsset that'd be great. Other mispreoccupations, misunderstandings and misdirections can take a second seat to "figuring out how to use accounting software" etc.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank
If bot lost money, YOU (bond holder) loose your invested principal and promised %?
Is this bot writing naked calls?
sr. member
Activity: 340
Merit: 250
GO http://bitcointa.lk !!! My new nick: jurov
Happened earlier today in #bitcoin-assets (unrelated conversations removed):
Quote
mircea_popescu: as a representative of bondholders i request you to increase price on calls
lol
lol
Smiley
;;calc 215/(1-0.087)
235.487404162
^ mircea_popescu, but im serious. C215T may be in the money tomorrow as it looks
[MPEX] [O.USD.C248T] 100 @ 0.10431071 = 10.4311 BTC
C300T will be ITM tomorrow
well sure it may be in the money.
if calls couldn't make moneuy nobody would buy them
MPOE is exposing itself to undue risk, don't you think?
bot should also BUY calls
at a higher price
I recommend 0.8 for the C137Ts.
[MPEX] [O.USD.P200T] 1000 @ 0.15267922 = 152.6792 BTC [-]
[MPEX] [O.USD.C215T] 30 @ 0.15955155 = 4.7865 BTC
lolwut
jurov the risk is this : if price goes up, short calls lose money. if price goes down, they make money.
what's unde about that ?
how many short calls are there, not many i daresay.
jurov all calls the bot sells are short to the bot.
[MPEX] [O.USD.C248T] 10 @ 0.10489348 = 1.0489 BTC [ + ]
jurov all calls the bot sells are short to the bot. <<< and thus to bondholders
yeah.
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29349 @ 0.00069022 = 20.2573 BTC [-]
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00070222 = 7.1626 BTC [ + ]
i mean, isn't it so unreasonable to assume March will possibly repeat, and do valuation adjustment?
why am i assuming ?
what you're assuming then?
nothing.
if we knew wtf is ghoing on we wouldn't need optioons in the fuirst place
two months in a row loss for MPOE bonds will cause having to cover them all yourself, can't we at least assume that as a baseline?
or are you sure this is very unlikely?
im not sure of anything tbh.
what are you so aggitated about anyway, the oix is half puts
[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.779 = 1.558 BTC [ + ]
[BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [-]
i'm agitated about the call part of oix Smiley
jurov, it seems you are questioning mp for bonds you bought knowing the same trend already
no?
ya but if you think about it, if options sold are half put half call by volume... what's gonna happen ?
they can't both win
and remember because it's $ profits as calls move more and more into the money they have a built in profit limiter.
i didn't put much into bonds myself. but i'm being MPBPT operator here
and MPBPT May is not selling at all
[MPEX] [O.USD.P200T] 1000 @ 0.15160246 = 151.6025 BTC [-]
options sold are half put half call by volume, really? then it's okay, should have researched it before freaking out.
jurov well it's what mpex.co main page says
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
The way things are headed (with the exchange rate) it looks like our bonds could possibly take another 30% haircut this month.

Hopefully, there are some radical adjustments being made to the bot's volatility pricing component.

There does seem to be an awful lot of "hope" and "trust" in this, um, scheme.

MP has said publicly that the bot hasn't been changed.  Who knows though, I doubt he's relishing another 23k hit.

All bitcoin investing requires a healthy amount of trust and risk.
donator
Activity: 668
Merit: 500
The way things are headed (with the exchange rate) it looks like our bonds could possibly take another 30% haircut this month.

Hopefully, there are some radical adjustments being made to the bot's volatility pricing component.

There does seem to be an awful lot of "hope" and "trust" in this, um, scheme.

MP has said publicly that the bot hasn't been changed.  Who knows though, I doubt he's relishing another 23k hit.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
firstbits 1LoCBS
The way things are headed (with the exchange rate) it looks like our bonds could possibly take another 30% haircut this month.

Hopefully, there are some radical adjustments being made to the bot's volatility pricing component.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
As the theory of option pricing is well understood, I would like to know how the bot's volatility component is determined?

That is not disclosed.

I assume that the algorithm learns from the variation of the recent time series.

So what is the likelihood that the MPOE option pricing bot is still under pricing with respect the chances for another 3x run this month. As of seven days into this month of April, the USD/BTC price has close to doubled already.

Entirely up to you to establish, all of this.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
@MPOE-PR,

Your linked document included this intriguing statement ...

Quote
MPOE holds absolutely no capital of its own, being exclusively composed of the algorithm that prices options and other algorithms and general craftiness required for the entire thing to function.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the MPOE bond holders cover the risk of the MOPE option pricing bot. As the theory of option pricing is well understood, I would like to know how the bot's volatility component is determined? I assume that the algorithm learns from the variation of the recent time series.

So what is the likelihood that the MPOE option pricing bot is still under pricing with respect the chances for another 3x run this month. As of seven days into this month of April, the USD/BTC price has close to doubled already.
sr. member
Activity: 340
Merit: 250
GO http://bitcointa.lk !!! My new nick: jurov
Does anyone else think that the MPOR should be substantially higher, given the big March loss?

Or rather, why is a repeat of that loss unlikely if that's the case?

Be careful, most people who are answering and giving you advice in this thread are making money when you lose money.
If these "most people" trade MPOE options, then yes, it's true. My own personal investment was on both sides - both bonds and call options, and together I came out with some profit.

As to why the loss is unlikely or not. Because the bonds cover BTC/USD options, it is clear there is a loss when the price shows big volatility(and options profit). In March price went up more than 3x, beyond even highest 75$ strike offered then. It's up to investors to assess likelihood of something like this to happen again.

BTW, as everyone can write options on MPEx, we're pondering some diversification to not rely solely on MPOE's own trading bot, but add other implementation(s) as well that may be better tuned to limit investors' exposure. If this succeeds, will be properly announced when next batch of MPBPT is issued. But one needs also to consider that biggest exposure - 68k BTC - was provided by Mircea Popescu, of which he admitted 15k loss. Competing traders won't have this last resort backing.
donator
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Does anyone else think that the MPOR should be substantially higher, given the big March loss?

Or rather, why is a repeat of that loss unlikely if that's the case?

Be careful, most people who are answering and giving you advice in this thread are making money when you lose money.
sr. member
Activity: 394
Merit: 250
Does anyone else think that the MPOR should be substantially higher, given the big March loss?

Or rather, why is a repeat of that loss unlikely if that's the case?

I imagine it will end up being higher this month, and certainly next month.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
Does anyone else think that the MPOR should be substantially higher, given the big March loss?

Or rather, why is a repeat of that loss unlikely if that's the case?
sr. member
Activity: 340
Merit: 250
GO http://bitcointa.lk !!! My new nick: jurov
April bond overview:
2028 MPBPT-E shares sold = 202.8 BTC investment made as follows:

Bond 1
Desired premium : 2.9 %
Amount:117 BTC

Bond 2
Desired premium : 4.69 %
Amount:85.8 BTC (plus 14.2 BTC CoinBr own investment, total 100BTC)

Same investment strategy as March.

The prospect was updated to more clearly reflect possible gain/loss. MPBPT-O May will be launched in few days.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
I see some old information in the comments at http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/sa-ne-jucam-de-a-investitiile-n-bitcoini/#comment-78745 , and I get "... Paid Content This article is available for a fee. ...".

Information doesn't rust. Older is usually better, since it had time to be debugged.

If you're hitting the paywall it just means you've done a lot of reading on the site. You get more free loads each week, or else you can buy some credits.

In this case however you're not losing anything, the comment is an integral English translation of the article, which is written in Romanian.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 501
Stephen Reed
I see some old information in the comments at http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/sa-ne-jucam-de-a-investitiile-n-bitcoini/#comment-78745 , and I get "... Paid Content This article is available for a fee. ...".
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
As I am currently blocked from accessing the free financial results for the bonds that I invested in, can you describe the situation that caused the MPOE bonds for March 2013 to suffer a 23% loss?

I suppose my anxiety with regard to future investment in MPOE bonds has to do with my lack of understanding as to exactly how MPOE uses the bond money to offset the trading risk of MPOE options, and what is the nature of the gamble that distinguishes MPOE bonds from conventional financial instruments of the same category.

My understanding was that the August 2012 loss was due to insider trading. What was the cause of the March 2013 loss? If it was simply the rapid growth of bitcoins, then is it true that MPOE bond is a bet against bitcoin volatility? That would not seem to be a good bet in the current situation obviously.

The entire thing was originally announced here. It is also found in the S.MPOE contract. What are you blocked from?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
It's a bet that more options traders will bet incorrectly than the bot that writes them.
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