[BitFunder] WTF! BitFunder Restrictions to US Citizens - page 3.

Luckybit

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: jimmothy on October 10, 2013, 06:51:09 PM

There should be a banner on the homepage saying "we will in no way attempt to comply with the US law". Do we have any actual details as to why these exchanges are shutting down? As far as I am understanding they just aren't complying with SEC's standards which don't seem too unfair in my opinion. I would love a bitcoin based stock exchange that actually does comply with US laws sort of like how many bitcoin exchanges operate legally in the US.

I don't think there are any bitcoin exchanges operating legally in the U.S. It is possible that there will never be.

There currently aren't and yes that is possible.

There are only two solutions.

A) Technological via a decentralized exchange.
B) Political via lobbying efforts to pass laws for customized regulation to cater to our needs.

I think both solutions should be pursued simultaneously. If lawmakers don't listen now, they'll listen when the tools are made and the pressure builds. Lawmakers can get together to pass a law to allow for Bitcoin exchanges but until that happens the technology is unregulated. The legal status is unknown although I do know that it's not legal to run an unlicensed centralized exchange.

crumbs

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Quote from: jimmothy on October 10, 2013, 06:51:09 PM

Quote from: crumbs on October 10, 2013, 06:43:24 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 10, 2013, 06:37:06 PM

...
This is exactly it. Pretending that the stocks were for educational purposes was a joke. Any company that takes in the equivalent of millions of dollars USD from investors is definitely not for educational purposes and should expect to be regulated like every other business in the united states. So clearly both of these exchanges were operating illegally, is there any reason to believe havelock is not going to suffer the same fate? Has anyone actually looked through their terms and how they operate carefully because it seems we only ever come to realize how incompetent these companies are after they have already fucked us over.

You didn't realize these exchanges weren't regulated? That's incredible Shocked

There should be a banner on the homepage saying "we will in no way attempt to comply with the US law". Do we have any actual details as to why these exchanges are shutting down? As far as I am understanding they just aren't complying with SEC's standards which don't seem too unfair in my opinion. I would love a bitcoin based stock exchange that actually does comply with US laws sort of like how many bitcoin exchanges operate legally in the US.

Let me make sure i understand you:

1. You hear about a crypto-related internet company, unregistered or registered in Belize or the Caymans.
2. A guy on the internet tells you to invest.
3. You are directed to a website, a "Virtual Exchange."
4a. Site tells you that nothing on the site is real, everything is for "entertainment or educational purposes only."
4b. Site tells you

.
5. ? ? ?
6, You "invest" money anyway, expecting to "PROFIT!"

You don't see anything ... unusual here?

Edit: you might find this exchange between burnside & Ukyo, from about a year ago, a fun read.

jimmothy

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Quote from: crumbs on October 10, 2013, 06:43:24 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 10, 2013, 06:37:06 PM

...
This is exactly it. Pretending that the stocks were for educational purposes was a joke. Any company that takes in the equivalent of millions of dollars USD from investors is definitely not for educational purposes and should expect to be regulated like every other business in the united states. So clearly both of these exchanges were operating illegally, is there any reason to believe havelock is not going to suffer the same fate? Has anyone actually looked through their terms and how they operate carefully because it seems we only ever come to realize how incompetent these companies are after they have already fucked us over.

You didn't realize these exchanges weren't regulated? That's incredible Shocked

There should be a banner on the homepage saying "we will in no way attempt to comply with the US law". Do we have any actual details as to why these exchanges are shutting down? As far as I am understanding they just aren't complying with SEC's standards which don't seem too unfair in my opinion. I would love a bitcoin based stock exchange that actually does comply with US laws sort of like how many bitcoin exchanges operate legally in the US.

crumbs

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Activity: 210

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Quote from: jimmothy on October 10, 2013, 06:37:06 PM

...
This is exactly it. Pretending that the stocks were for educational purposes was a joke. Any company that takes in the equivalent of millions of dollars USD from investors is definitely not for educational purposes and should expect to be regulated like every other business in the united states. So clearly both of these exchanges were operating illegally, is there any reason to believe havelock is not going to suffer the same fate? Has anyone actually looked through their terms and how they operate carefully because it seems we only ever come to realize how incompetent these companies are after they have already fucked us over.

You didn't realize these exchanges weren't regulated? That's incredible Shocked

jimmothy

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Quote from: OgonDark on October 09, 2013, 09:23:27 AM

I have to say that the way that both Bitfunder and BTCT have handled things is absolutely atrocious.

If they are pretending that the conditions that are forcing them to shutter their doors didn't exist when they set up their exchanges, they are either liars, unethical or incompetent.

Each of them has created large quantifiable financial losses for people who had relied on their assertions and now they want to shove that responsibility off onto another entity. I'd love to see even a redacted version of the Cease and Desist letter either of these exchanges received. Because, I don't believe one exists. They've scared themselves out of doing something that they should have known was scary to do in the first place.

Acting like all the rules around issuing securities just happened is a joke. They were in place for literally decades and closing in on a century before these exchanges were ever conceived.

They knew the risks of running one of these things, if they weren't up to it they should have never started.

This is exactly it. Pretending that the stocks were for educational purposes was a joke. Any company that takes in the equivalent of millions of dollars USD from investors is definitely not for educational purposes and should expect to be regulated like every other business in the united states. So clearly both of these exchanges were operating illegally, is there any reason to believe havelock is not going to suffer the same fate? Has anyone actually looked through their terms and how they operate carefully because it seems we only ever come to realize how incompetent these companies are after they have already fucked us over.

crumbs

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Quote from: gogxmagog on October 10, 2013, 05:23:33 PM

Quote from: crumbs on October 09, 2013, 05:14:58 PM

Quote from: gogxmagog on October 09, 2013, 04:51:00 PM

It is also partially restricted to canadian and other users. As they force you to go through weexchange (false volume) they are going to prevent you from doing even this unless you have provided a selection of id documents totalling 100 points, but if you do not posses a drivers license there is NO WAY to get 100 points. I've got credit card (25 points), utility bill (25 points), passport (40 points) but no driver's license. I have epilepsy. Trust me, you DO NOT want me driving on public roads. so this means, due to a medical condition, that is no fault of my own, I am probably unable to use weexchange, and therefore, on nov 1st, totally unable to use bitfunder either.
...

Access for people with disabilities is made possible through the very government regulations we try to avoid.
It is not a right.
Illness, much like poverty and lack of intelligence, hinders your ability to compete in this -- the free market.
Sad but true.
Kindly refrain from calling on the nanny-state to intervene on your behalf to regulate bitcoin entrepreneurs out of existence Angry

they accepted my photo ID, I'm verified now, but your attitude towards people with barriers is still stuck in Nazi Germany circa 1939. I could go get a driver's license, you know. I do not have to disclose my medical condition, and I know epileptics who drive despite the risk, but out of consideration for the rest of the society I live in, and the safety of my fellow citizens I deign not to get behind the wheel, because I never know when a grand mal will come on and I will drive into pedestrians/ on-coming traffic/private properties/pets & animals.

But hey listen, you're obviously a forward thinking guy, how bout I do go get my license and go joyriding around your granny's house or the school where your kids attend. Fuck the rules, eh?

If terrorizing a struggling business into accepting your substandard ID wasn't enough, you now go on to threaten my children and my kindly grandma with your brutish reckless "driving"?

You don't frighten me, buster! I have dedicated American Patriots guarding my boarders, they'll spot you for the terrorist weapon of mass destruction that you are, and then BAM! Guantanamo!

Better keep your dangerous self to your God-forsaken backwater foregny, and stay out of my Land of the Free -- we have STANDARDS here. Angry

gogxmagog

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Ad maiora!

Quote from: crumbs on October 09, 2013, 05:14:58 PM

Quote from: gogxmagog on October 09, 2013, 04:51:00 PM

It is also partially restricted to canadian and other users. As they force you to go through weexchange (false volume) they are going to prevent you from doing even this unless you have provided a selection of id documents totalling 100 points, but if you do not posses a drivers license there is NO WAY to get 100 points. I've got credit card (25 points), utility bill (25 points), passport (40 points) but no driver's license. I have epilepsy. Trust me, you DO NOT want me driving on public roads. so this means, due to a medical condition, that is no fault of my own, I am probably unable to use weexchange, and therefore, on nov 1st, totally unable to use bitfunder either.
...

Access for people with disabilities is made possible through the very government regulations we try to avoid.
It is not a right.
Illness, much like poverty and lack of intelligence, hinders your ability to compete in this -- the free market.
Sad but true.
Kindly refrain from calling on the nanny-state to intervene on your behalf to regulate bitcoin entrepreneurs out of existence Angry

they accepted my photo ID, I'm verified now, but your attitude towards people with barriers is still stuck in Nazi Germany circa 1939. I could go get a driver's license, you know. I do not have to disclose my medical condition, and I know epileptics who drive despite the risk, but out of consideration for the rest of the society I live in, and the safety of my fellow citizens I deign not to get behind the wheel, because I never know when a grand mal will come on and I will drive into pedestrians/ on-coming traffic/private properties/pets & animals.

But hey listen, you're obviously a forward thinking guy, how bout I do go get my license and go joyriding around your granny's house or the school where your kids attend. Fuck the rules, eh?

crumbs

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Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: bigbeninlondon on October 10, 2013, 11:38:19 AM

Quote from: crumbs on October 09, 2013, 05:14:58 PM

Quote from: gogxmagog on October 09, 2013, 04:51:00 PM

It is also partially restricted to canadian and other users. As they force you to go through weexchange (false volume) they are going to prevent you from doing even this unless you have provided a selection of id documents totalling 100 points, but if you do not posses a drivers license there is NO WAY to get 100 points. I've got credit card (25 points), utility bill (25 points), passport (40 points) but no driver's license. I have epilepsy. Trust me, you DO NOT want me driving on public roads. so this means, due to a medical condition, that is no fault of my own, I am probably unable to use weexchange, and therefore, on nov 1st, totally unable to use bitfunder either.
...

Access for people with disabilities is made possible through the very government regulations we try to avoid.
It is not a right.
Illness, much like poverty and lack of intelligence, hinders your ability to compete in this -- the free market.
Sad but true.
Kindly refrain from calling on the nanny-state to intervene on your behalf to regulate bitcoin entrepreneurs out of existence Angry

Why do you think that they want gov.t issued driver's license to begin with? Here's a hint: it's the nanny-state. They are causing this issue for our disabled friend, and he (justly so IMHO) is stating that if they are going to fuck him because of nanny-state id requirements, he hopes it takes them full circle and fucks the site too.

Nowhere did he call on the nanny state to intervene on his behalf.

ORLY?
"Frankly, if I dont get satisfaction, I hope they regulate these assholes right out of the water."

A vindictive call for the statist dogs to ruin the service for our able-bodied friends if a business doesn't cater to his "special needs." Next he'll be asking for government to distribute the wealth, just because he was born poorer than me. Unacceptable!

He should better himself or accept his station in life, not call on the government thugs to regulate a struggling business Angry

iANDROID

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Swiss Money all around me!

The cool thing is that I now have to sell everything on BF since I don't have a driver licence and any credit card.

But the funniest thing is:

Code:

Credit Card (Front Only!)

You only need the front face of a credit card to use it.

bigbeninlondon

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Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: crumbs on October 09, 2013, 05:14:58 PM

Quote from: gogxmagog on October 09, 2013, 04:51:00 PM

It is also partially restricted to canadian and other users. As they force you to go through weexchange (false volume) they are going to prevent you from doing even this unless you have provided a selection of id documents totalling 100 points, but if you do not posses a drivers license there is NO WAY to get 100 points. I've got credit card (25 points), utility bill (25 points), passport (40 points) but no driver's license. I have epilepsy. Trust me, you DO NOT want me driving on public roads. so this means, due to a medical condition, that is no fault of my own, I am probably unable to use weexchange, and therefore, on nov 1st, totally unable to use bitfunder either.
...

Access for people with disabilities is made possible through the very government regulations we try to avoid.
It is not a right.
Illness, much like poverty and lack of intelligence, hinders your ability to compete in this -- the free market.
Sad but true.
Kindly refrain from calling on the nanny-state to intervene on your behalf to regulate bitcoin entrepreneurs out of existence Angry

Why do you think that they want gov.t issued driver's license to begin with? Here's a hint: it's the nanny-state. They are causing this issue for our disabled friend, and he (justly so IMHO) is stating that if they are going to fuck him because of nanny-state id requirements, he hopes it takes them full circle and fucks the site too.

Nowhere did he call on the nanny state to intervene on his behalf.

fran2k

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: Luckybit on October 09, 2013, 06:40:26 PM

Quote from: Vigil on October 09, 2013, 06:01:58 PM

Absolutely absurd. Between the actions of BTCT and BF I have lost just about everything I invested. BitFunder just a few weeks ago said they had no intent on closing and accepted the transfer of shares from BTCT - as soon as they get over there they pull this nonsense.

Thats what you get for trusting.

My sense for day trading was to sell every asset once before to go to sleep or go to away from Internet and still I don't get easy having funds in this kind of sites.

I hope soon we have something like colored coins in beta.

Luckybit

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Activity: 714

Merit: 510

Quote from: Vigil on October 09, 2013, 06:01:58 PM

Absolutely absurd. Between the actions of BTCT and BF I have lost just about everything I invested. BitFunder just a few weeks ago said they had no intent on closing and accepted the transfer of shares from BTCT - as soon as they get over there they pull this nonsense.

Thats what you get for trusting.

Vigil

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Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Absolutely absurd. Between the actions of BTCT and BF I have lost just about everything I invested. BitFunder just a few weeks ago said they had no intent on closing and accepted the transfer of shares from BTCT - as soon as they get over there they pull this nonsense.

crumbs

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Activity: 210

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Quote from: gogxmagog on October 09, 2013, 04:51:00 PM

It is also partially restricted to canadian and other users. As they force you to go through weexchange (false volume) they are going to prevent you from doing even this unless you have provided a selection of id documents totalling 100 points, but if you do not posses a drivers license there is NO WAY to get 100 points. I've got credit card (25 points), utility bill (25 points), passport (40 points) but no driver's license. I have epilepsy. Trust me, you DO NOT want me driving on public roads. so this means, due to a medical condition, that is no fault of my own, I am probably unable to use weexchange, and therefore, on nov 1st, totally unable to use bitfunder either.
...

Access for people with disabilities is made possible through the very government regulations we try to avoid.
It is not a right.
Illness, much like poverty and lack of intelligence, hinders your ability to compete in this -- the free market.
Sad but true.
Kindly refrain from calling on the nanny-state to intervene on your behalf to regulate bitcoin entrepreneurs out of existence Angry

gogxmagog

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1010

Ad maiora!

It is also partially restricted to canadian and other users. As they force you to go through weexchange (false volume) they are going to prevent you from doing even this unless you have provided a selection of id documents totalling 100 points, but if you do not posses a drivers license there is NO WAY to get 100 points. I've got credit card (25 points), utility bill (25 points), passport (40 points) but no driver's license. I have epilepsy. Trust me, you DO NOT want me driving on public roads. so this means, due to a medical condition, that is no fault of my own, I am probably unable to use weexchange, and therefore, on nov 1st, totally unable to use bitfunder either.

now, i DID send my govt. of canada provincial photo ID card, which works at airports, boarder crossings, and every other official place that asks for driver's license, and I sent a message to them asking/warning them about this, but it seems they completely ignore all queries for help.

I really hope they address this bullshit cuz I want to sell my shares when I choose, not be forced to sell them before THEIR set deadline. Manipulation opportunity anyone?

Frankly, if I dont get satisfaction, I hope they regulate these assholes right out of the water.

luke.watson

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Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: crumbs on October 09, 2013, 02:17:14 PM

Quote from: luke.watson on October 09, 2013, 02:06:30 PM

...
* Is it a law or what, why are US citizens not allowed to hold BTC stocks any more?

Nothing to do with BTC, everything to do with unregistered securities.
And you can buy & hold them as much as you like, it's the selling side that's a big no-no Sad

I see, you have to register to sell the shares..

By the looks of things, shares are now going underground, I noticed Additcion mining are allowing you to convert your BF shares to direct shares..

I really hope this doesn't mean the end of crowd funding sites, I guess we just have to sit back and let the US have their rampage and try to pick up the pieces the best we can

iANDROID

full member

Activity: 182

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Swiss Money all around me!

I've lost 60% of all my BTC on BitFunder...in ONE day.

smilence

newbie

Activity: 58

Merit: 0

I'm pretty sure bitfunder.com will be shut down soon..

crumbs

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Quote from: luke.watson on October 09, 2013, 02:06:30 PM

...
* Is it a law or what, why are US citizens not allowed to hold BTC stocks any more?

Nothing to do with BTC, everything to do with unregistered securities.
And you can buy & hold them as much as you like, it's the selling side that's a big no-no Sad

luke.watson

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

I've already lost BTC2, not that much compared to some I'm sure, but about BTC2 more than I wanted to lose today..

Is it time to cut the losses and bail, or stick with it. I understand a lot of the market for the stocks was US but seeing as I'm a UK citizen should I follow the trend and get out while I can, or stick with it. The shares obviously still have value, the companies still exist but perhaps the market has just be cut right down..

What are other free citizens doing in this time of need?

IMHO it's the perfect time to get cheap stocks, hopefully we'll see a surge in a few weeks, I don't think the UK will be imposing the same (law)? any time soon

* Is it a law or what, why are US citizens not allowed to hold BTC stocks any more?

Topic: [BitFunder] WTF! BitFunder Restrictions to US Citizens - page 3. (Read 12167 times)