BitGo withdrawal fee is too high - page 2.

Lucius

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Quote from: LoyceV on July 29, 2020, 05:29:21 AM

I've seen that claim before, but it's incorrect. The total fee doesn't matter, ViaBTC ignores anything with less than 10 sat/byte fee:

If it says so then it's probably true, but the OP can definitely try if it decides to try the Very Low Priority option - and given the current situation with 1-2 sat/byte it can take some time before miners get his transaction.

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Quote from: Lucius on July 29, 2020, 05:22:24 AM

Given the total network fee you would pay to withdraw 0.145 BTC you can help yourself with ViaBTC Transaction Accelerator

I've seen that claim before, but it's incorrect. The total fee doesn't matter, ViaBTC ignores anything with less than 10 sat/byte fee:

Quote from: ViaBTC | Transaction Accelerator

1. Free Acceleration: No need to sign in, you can submit any TXID of delayed transactions that at least include a fee of 0.0001BTC/KB.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 29, 2020, 02:55:11 AM

I have 0.15 BTC, with high priority transaction system says I can send only 0.12 BTC. Switching to less quick transaction amount available does not change, but in fact, I can send more. I've filled all the necessary and put 0.145 BTC with "Very Low Priority (Est. 300 blocks)" option and clicked Send.

As everyone can see, the button "Send Funds" is blue, which means I can send more than BitGo said I have available.

Given the total network fee you would pay to withdraw 0.145 BTC you can help yourself with ViaBTC Transaction Accelerator and you certainly won’t wait 300 blocks for the first confirmation. The only thing that matters is that you speed up your transaction to the full hour - so paste your transaction ID an click send on full hour (you will also need to solve the captcha).

Regarding Electrum, if you download from official site and verify signature of file + your PC is virus/malware free you are relatively safe. Just keep your seed offline and check every address which you will use to protect yourself from clipboard malware.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 29, 2020, 02:55:11 AM

Their answer was:

"Our page will not update if you make any changes to the fee priority, but by default our system is showing it as if you were setting it at a two block confirmation priority, which is considered the 'high priority'."

That's a terrible design choice!

Quote

I find their way of work and presenting information - misleading.

I expect a Bitcoin wallet to be absolutely accurate when it comes to balance, transaction, funds and fees. This is plain stupid.

Quote

I have 0.15 BTC, with high priority transaction system says I can send only 0.12 BTC. Switching to less quick transaction amount available does not change, but in fact, I can send more. I've filled all the necessary and put 0.145 BTC with "Very Low Priority (Est. 300 blocks)" option and clicked Send. Next screen was:

As everyone can see, the button "Send Funds" is blue, which means I can send more than BitGo said I have available.

At least they give a preview before sending.

Quote

I've seen many times on this forum BitGo among the list of recommended online wallets.

I would only recommend online wallets for very specific purposes, such as very small amounts that you don't mind losing, for instance to make small payments when you're away from your own trusted computer.

Quote

I've been using BitGo to receive funds for more than than a year, but when the time comes to sending, I was not expected to have such issues with reputed wallet.

I wouldn't call it "reputed" Wink

Most wallets have a "Max" button that actually sends the maximum, and empties your wallet. Now you have to manually figure it out, based on your screenshots you may be able to withdraw something around 0.1485 BTC, then wait until it confirms. As long as they keep broadcasting the transaction it should arrive, even if it takes a few weeks.

You can have fee-problems with other wallets too when you have 79 inputs, so it's good practice to consolidate your inputs once in a while. Depending on the purpose of each wallet, I do this for anything between just 2 up to tens of inputs.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 29, 2020, 03:27:30 AM

P.S. I will keep updating this topic with info how much I've managed to withdraw, how much it cost me, compared to what BitGo said I can withdraw. I think it would be a nice and free experience for others.

Recently I did paid nearly $20 as fee for a $250 transaction from my electrum.So downloading electrum may not change the things much because the transaction fee depends on the size of your transaction so if you are going to send all the funds from your wallet which you had received from 100 small transactions the fee is going to be same but at least you can set whatever fee you want if you can wait for your transaction get confirmed.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 29, 2020, 03:27:30 AM

So far I have downloaded latest version of Electrum wallet

Make sure you also verify your download.

https://bitcoinelectrum.com/how-to-verify-your-electrum-download/
https://bitzuma.com/posts/how-to-verify-an-electrum-download-on-windows/
https://bitzuma.com/posts/how-to-verify-an-electrum-download-on-mac/

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 29, 2020, 03:19:33 AM

Glad you managed to withdraw your coins without having to pay their ridiculous fee though. As you say, their website is misleading and their support were less than helpful.

I havent withdrawn anything yet, but I'm planning to do it in a very nearest future. So far I have downloaded latest version of Electrum wallet and I'm going to read as much as possible about it and options it provide. I know/imagine how it works, but I'm not in a rush to set it and immediately send funds there. I've already have a bad experience of "I'll just google how to create a bitcoin wallet, and use easiest way to do it".

P.S. I will keep updating this topic with info how much I've managed to withdraw, how much it cost me, compared to what BitGo said I can withdraw. I think it would be a nice and free experience for others.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 29, 2020, 02:55:11 AM

I was not expected to have such issues with reputed wallet.

The problem with "reputable" web wallets, is that web wallets are used almost exclusively by people who do not know why web wallets are a terrible choice to store your bitcoin from both a security and a privacy point of view, only want to use the wallets for basic functions, don't understand about setting your own fees, and so on. The "recommendations" you get for which ones to use are therefore going to be unreliable at best. There are plenty of users on here which recommend web wallets based solely on the fact "I use them and they haven't scammed me", which is a terrible metric to use.

Do yourself a favor and withdraw your money to your own desktop wallet. It's more secure, more private, cheaper, and means you aren't placing complete trust in an anonymous third party.

Glad you managed to withdraw your coins without having to pay their ridiculous fee though. As you say, their website is misleading and their support were less than helpful.

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Another update:

Yesterday I've asked them to explain their calculation of available amount and how they calculate fees. The answer was the following:

"Network fees will vary and I cannot provide you with what it currently is. You can refer to https://core.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,4d to see what the trend has been for fee rates. You can alternatively set a lower fee rate if you'd like, but please keep in mind it will take longer to confirm as you will need to wait for fees to drop to that rate."

Also LoyceV was almost correct with:

Quote from: LoyceV on July 28, 2020, 10:48:27 AM

I guess that's because fees are going up. Ask support why your Available balance doesn't increase when you manually set 1 sat/byte. It looks like that feature isn't working.

Their answer was:

"Our page will not update if you make any changes to the fee priority, but by default our system is showing it as if you were setting it at a two block confirmation priority, which is considered the 'high priority'."

I find their way of work and presenting information - misleading.

I have 0.15 BTC, with high priority transaction system says I can send only 0.12 BTC. Switching to less quick transaction amount available does not change, but in fact, I can send more. I've filled all the necessary and put 0.145 BTC with "Very Low Priority (Est. 300 blocks)" option and clicked Send. Next screen was:

As everyone can see, the button "Send Funds" is blue, which means I can send more than BitGo said I have available.

I think this "bug" or misleading information was made on purpose. Users either send everything extra expensive, or leave funds in their wallet.
I've seen many times on this forum BitGo among the list of recommended online wallets. I've been using BitGo to receive funds for more than than a year, but when the time comes to sending, I was not expected to have such issues with reputed wallet.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 28, 2020, 09:56:18 AM

The number of transactions I've received is 79.

79 multi-sig inputs certainly goes some way to explaining why they are trying to charge such high transaction fees. You are probably looking at a transaction of over 20 kB. As LoyceV says though, you should still see a significant reduction when you select 1 sat/vbyte. I would email them and tell them as much. If they were genuinely charging you 1 sat/vbyte while taking 0.028 BTC from your total, then they are claiming that your transaction size is 2.8 megabytes(!), which is clearly nonsense.

Using your own wallet not only gives you real control over your coins and real control over the fees, but it also isn't multi-sig (so your transactions would be smaller and therefore cheaper), and gives you the option of using SegWit (which again would make your transactions cheaper). For future reference, if you can receive fewer larger payments, rather than many smaller payments, that would also help when it comes to paying lower fees.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 28, 2020, 09:56:18 AM

Really dont know what to do. During last few hours my amount available becomes $360 less than it is on my address...

Currently recommended fee climb up to 65 sat/byte which is the reason for fee is getting increasing.

It seems 2017 year scenario just repeating again so don't be in a hurry and you can move your funds when the memepool get cleared and I will say don't set 1sat/byte transaction it might gets stuck forever so wait for the number of unconfimered transaction gets lower.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 28, 2020, 09:56:18 AM

"I reviewed your account and that spendable balance seems correct. Your spendable balance needs to account for the fees to the network as well as the BitGo withdrawal fees so it should be a little less than your available balance. Your wallet has less than 200 unspents so you should not need to consolidate like previously mentioned."

Really dont know what to do. During last few hours my amount available becomes $360 less than it is on my address...

I guess that's because fees are going up. Ask support why your Available balance doesn't increase when you manually set 1 sat/byte. It looks like that feature isn't working.
For now, don't rush things. I'd say try again when fees are much lower. Usually, fees are lowest on Sundays, but it varies from week to week.

While waiting, find yourself a real wallet. The one you're using now sounds like it's multisig, so you're totally at the mercy of a third party. That's not what Bitcoin is about. The best choice of wallet depends a bit on what system you're using, but Electrum is probably a good choice. Don't fall for phishing sites. You may want to setup a cold wallet, but there too: it's important to read up on potential pitfalls so you don't have to experience them.

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Update:

Quote from: Lucius on July 28, 2020, 08:23:55 AM

bakasabo, based on number of your inputs (can you check your total number of transaction), you can at least approximately calculate the size of your transaction so if nothing else determine if there is a real reason for such a large fee (blockchain fee for high priority) or BitGo charges some internal fee.

The number of transactions I've received is 79. They all are around 0.001-0.003 btc and were received during a year.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 28, 2020, 08:51:12 AM

Two suggestions OP.

First of all, try filling in the rest of the fields (specifically the address field) and seeing if the "available" box changes.

Second, check that all incoming transactions are confirmed.

All the transactions are confirmer, last one was about a week ago. I've tried filling all the fields, nothing changes. Dont know what should I type in "Internal Transaction Memo"; receive address (tried with coinbase) does not provide anything for this field. "Funny" thing is, as Bitcoin price grows, my Available funds are not "Available: 0.11742646 BTC"

Quote from: LoyceV on July 28, 2020, 09:13:09 AM

Have you used BitGo to send a transaction before, or did you only receive funds? It might be you've reached the maximum transaction size (in bytes). If that's the case, your wallet won't be empty after sending the maximum amount.

I lied a bit about not sending funds before, I've checked history and found out that I've already used BitGo online wallet for sending. In November 2018 it cost me 0.00005099 BTC (7.702 sat/B - 1.926 sat/WU - 662 bytes) for sending 0.03039901 BTC

Now the answer from the support:

"The reason that your spendable balance is lower than the total balance of your wallets is because the spendable balance is the sum of the 200 most valuable unspents in your wallet. That being said, if you wish to increase the spendable balance of your wallet, you will need to consolidate the unspents in your wallet using our API.

For the matter of transaction fees, there are two fees that you are paying, one to BitGo of 0.25% of the total transaction value and the other is the network fee determined by the weight of the transaction in vbytes * the feeRate applied. The fee rate applied to the transaction is based on the priority level that you select for confirmation. Also, the more unspents used as inputs in the transaction (200 in this instance) the more the transaction weighs in vbytes. "

As I havent experienced "consolidating unspents using API" I've asked in my next email how to do that and asked for a step-by-step guide and got an answer:

"I reviewed your account and that spendable balance seems correct. Your spendable balance needs to account for the fees to the network as well as the BitGo withdrawal fees so it should be a little less than your available balance. Your wallet has less than 200 unspents so you should not need to consolidate like previously mentioned."

Really dont know what to do. During last few hours my amount available becomes $360 less than it is on my address...

LoyceV

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Have you used BitGo to send a transaction before, or did you only receive funds? It might be you've reached the maximum transaction size (in bytes). If that's the case, your wallet won't be empty after sending the maximum amount.

You can try to send a smaller amount (say 0.01 BTC), set 1 sat/byte fee, and see what happens to your total balance, the real transaction, and the amount Available. A 1 sat/byte transaction will take a long time to confirm, but that's not your main concern now.

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Two suggestions OP.

First of all, try filling in the rest of the fields (specifically the address field) and seeing if the "available" box changes. I've seen some wallets in the past which won't update fees properly until you put in an address, since different output addresses can result in different transaction sizes.

Second, check that all incoming transactions are confirmed. The mempool is pretty backed up at the moment, so perhaps you have a transaction or two which are still unconfirmed and not available to be spent, which would explain the discrepancy.

Lucius

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I tried to access their page to see if they have any hidden fees (written in very small letters), but I only get this:

Code:

Error 1020 Access denied. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks.

But if one does a little searching about high fees and their service, then similar problems can be found as in this case. In this case, the user paid as much as 37.2% of the total value of the transaction, which means that BitGo definitely charges very high fees in some cases.

bakasabo, based on number of your inputs (can you check your total number of transaction), you can at least approximately calculate the size of your transaction so if nothing else determine if there is a real reason for such a large fee (blockchain fee for high priority) or BitGo charges some internal fee.

This is what it would look like if you used a Legacy address and had 145 transactions - and you want confirmation in the next 2 blocks.

https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/fee-calculator/

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Just wrote them a ticket, that it is impossible that sending $1,600 would cost me around $300. Their "pay-as-you-go" pricing 0.25% looks more like ~19% to me.

Dont want to "play" with money testing transaction fees, when sending 1/4 of total balance or any other amount. I'm waiting for their answer. It might be that they charge their own fee plus network fee, but $300 is simply a robbery.

Why I do not understand, that why changing transaction priority does not change anything.

Quote from: Bttzed03 on July 28, 2020, 07:25:08 AM

I was wondering why it took you so long to ditch it and go for non-custodial wallets.

I was just accumulating funds there. There was no need to send them until now

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Quote from: Bttzed03 on July 28, 2020, 07:08:48 AM

I'm guessing you chose their hot wallet known as "BitGo Pay As You Go wallet" which charges 0.25% transaction fee for bitcoin withdrawals.

Regardless, 0.25% is only BTC0.0003725, not almost BTC0.03 which was the amount deducted to the total balance if OP would withdraw the maximum.

Quote from: Bttzed03 on July 28, 2020, 07:08:48 AM

Still, that's way less than the BTC.03 being "eaten" by the wallet. Does the wallet require you to have a minimum balance like what bank accounts do? I know it's a crazy idea but it's strange that your total balance is almost BTC0.15 but what's being shown as available is BTC0.12

I guess OP here has to ask the support and clarify this issue before proceeding to withdrawal, or maybe he can try to withdraw 25% of the total balance and see how much fee was charge.

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Quote from: bakasabo on July 28, 2020, 07:15:16 AM

~ I've asked same question on reddit and the first answer was "Not your keys, not your wallet. BitGo may charge you what ever they want"... This was my first bitcoin wallet created years ago and I did not expect situation to be in this way.

Not the answer you wanted but it's true though. I was wondering why it took you so long to ditch it and go for non-custodial wallets.

Quote from: bakasabo on July 28, 2020, 07:15:16 AM

With such an attitude from BitGo I would love to move all my funds and even wait for weeks for them to be transferred.

Contact them by email then and wait for their (slow) response. Given that many of us here have little idea about the wallet, it's your best/only option I guess. Please post an update if they ever explain things to you.

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Quote from: Bttzed03 on July 28, 2020, 07:08:48 AM

I'm guessing you chose their hot wallet known as "BitGo Pay As You Go wallet" which charges 0.25% transaction fee for bitcoin withdrawals. Still, that's way less than the BTC.03 being "eaten" by the wallet. Does the wallet require you to have a minimum balance like what bank accounts do? I know it's a crazy idea but it's strange that your total balance is almost BTC0.15 but what's being shown as available is BTC0.12

0.25% is small fee, assume we agree it is a small fee but even if it is only small fee for enough big transactions. For small transactions, sometimes fee are nearly equal to initial values of bitcoins used to make that transaction.

Therefore, consolidate bulk of small transactions when fee is low (perfect to consolidate them at 1 satoshi/ byte), then choose another good period to move consolidated fund (at low fee, but can be higher than 1 satoshi/byte). In my favorite, I don't want to be charged double fee (even it is 0.25% per withdrawal) from any wallet. With non-custodial wallets such as Electrum I don't have to pay double fee.

Quote from: bakasabo on July 28, 2020, 07:15:16 AM

These are the only options and fields available. In both images it is shows, that whatever I choose, my available amount to be send does not change. And there is no line that shows real fee.

I don't use BitGo wallet but if your disclosure is true, it is time to use another wallet (should be non-custodial).

Topic: BitGo withdrawal fee is too high - page 2. (Read 559 times)