Bitinstant brokering extortion threats? - page 3.

Portnoy

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Quote from: evoorhees on September 08, 2012, 03:56:43 PM

It amazes me how little of a sense of humor people have, my goodness.

And yes, it is condescending to Romney and his team. That man deserves no respect whatsoever. I do not feel remorse poking fun at tyrants.

Are you speaking as a professional and responsible spokesman of Bitinstant here... or as a prankster needing to vent? Wink

Portnoy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Portnoy on September 08, 2012, 03:39:06 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The question becomes: What will the heroes do if/when "they" make the heroes' tools illegal? Regardless of how Bitcoin is promoted or portrayed, positive or negative, it has the potential by itself to be quite disruptive to many "powers that be" and that alone is enough to consider the possibility of it being "illegal" in certain jurisdictions some day in the future.

If I may butt in once again... I will anyway. Cheesy

Some define "heroism" not as following this or that arbitrary law or social custom ( or being lucky enough to die for ones country in a meaningless war abroad ),
but in following ones heart, despite the consequences. And no, I don't find that contradictory to what I have already said, in case someone was going to ask me
that...

Indeed, but if you follow the quotes:

Quote from: FlipPro on September 08, 2012, 03:24:19 PM

We can be disruptive without breaking any laws in the process....

the discussion specifically mentioned not breaking laws. Hence my question.

Fair enough... but my points are made within the larger context of Bitinstant's "stunt" or "joke" or whatever one would like to call it.
I don't think it was a justified defence against some government action, if anyone tries to claim it as such. But if any unreasonable
action 'would' be undertaken at some point then I wouldn't cry out against any reasonable defensive action... which if it was against
the government would perhaps be illegal by definition.

I agree with much of what you have said on points like this... it's just when it gets into preemptive activism, or sensational marketing,
and the like, where I find I am in disagreement, with the views themselves, regardless of who holds them, or not.

evoorhees

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Quote from: Transisto on September 08, 2012, 04:51:07 AM

At best their offer being condescending to Romney and his team.

Quote

Not only that, we’ll also show you how to safely use a Bitcoin wallet, back up and encrypt it, and make payments. We’ll even set you up with a Bitcoin app on your iPhone! You’ll be a Bitcoin expert in no time!

Who the F you think you are ?

PR fail on multiple level.

It amazes me how little of a sense of humor people have, my goodness.

And yes, it is condescending to Romney and his team. That man deserves no respect whatsoever. I do not feel remorse poking fun at tyrants.

evoorhees

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Democracy is the original 51% attack

Quote from: finkleshnorts on September 08, 2012, 12:53:09 AM

TBH, it seemed a bit distasteful to me.

Extorting money for tax returns is distasteful/immoral/illegal. Offering to help the victim is none of these things.

evoorhees

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Democracy is the original 51% attack

Quote from: eldentyrell on September 08, 2012, 12:50:20 AM

My jaw is still on the floor after reading this:

http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/9/6/a-friendly-offer-for-mitt-romney.html

Have the people who run bitinstant gone completely and utterly nuts?

Never mind the fact that the threat is certainly a hoax; the hoaxers didn't bother including even the simplest proof that they actually have the goods (i.e. FY2009 page 12 line 13 is $18.99). The average person on the street who reads the Forbes article about your idiotic offer does not know this. All they see is the biggest retail player in the bitcoin world offering to broker an extortion threat. How on earth could you possibly think this would be a good thing either for bitcoin or for your business?

Congratulations, Erik Voorhees. You are responsible for event most damaging to bitcoin's reputation thus far. Way to go.

Hahahaha wow

Okay then, let's play things your way. If charging him less for the service is bad (as you describe), then charging more must be the appropriate course of action? Instead of BitInstant offering to help Romney get the funds for 0% commission, you are suggesting we charge him 2%? Roll Eyes

Portnoy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Portnoy on September 08, 2012, 03:16:04 PM

Whether you personally condone it or not is largely irrelevant.

It felt as though you were putting words in my mouth, which is why I clarified. Don't shoot the messenger!

I agree that we should embrace positive aspects of human nature.

I am glad you take it that way.

I try to avoid attacking personalities and try to stick to the ideas themselves. I apologize if I sometimes fall short of that goal, or am lacking in clarity.

Portnoy

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My money; Our Bitcoin.

Quote from: ?? on ??

The question becomes: What will the heroes do if/when "they" make the heroes' tools illegal? Regardless of how Bitcoin is promoted or portrayed, positive or negative, it has the potential by itself to be quite disruptive to many "powers that be" and that alone is enough to consider the possibility of it being "illegal" in certain jurisdictions some day in the future.

If I may butt in once again... I will anyway. Cheesy

Some define "heroism" not as following this or that arbitrary law or social custom ( or being lucky enough to die for ones country in a meaningless war abroad ),
but in following ones heart, despite the consequences. And no, I don't find that contradictory to what I have already said, in case someone was going to ask me
that...

FlipPro

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on September 08, 2012, 12:11:13 PM

Quote from: FlipPro on September 08, 2012, 05:58:38 AM

Quote from: interlagos on September 08, 2012, 05:46:27 AM

I'm with Bitinstant on this one.
That's the spirit of Bitcoin - we are building a disruptive technology which will take over the world.
We aim at no less, so why be so shy about it?
Winners will write the history.

We can be disruptive without breaking any laws in the process....

Heroes wear white hats.

QFT

Portnoy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I never said I condoned such things (if that's what your first paragraph was trying to imply). I was simply pointing out human nature, from my experiences (I've never seen a church bake sale tie up four otherwise perfectly functioning lanes of a major highway for hours at a time).

So... Roll Eyes

backatchya.

Whether you personally condone it or not is largely irrelevant. The point, I feel, still stands.

One can exploit, the lower and weaker aspects of, human nature... fleece the sheep... for a quick buck... instant gratification... etc.
or one can try to encourage and inspire the more positive aspects of it. I like to think Satoshi's dream, or vision or whatever one
would like to call it, is an example of the latter.

One is harder to do than the other but I would suggest more rewarding, for all, in the long run. Wink

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: Vladimir on September 08, 2012, 12:56:08 PM

Phinnaeus Gage, this is actually a very serious topic you are bringing up here.

Yep indeed it seems Bitcoin is riding one wave of negative news after another. I also have stats of online article popularity and I will tell you that http://bitcoinmagazine.net/bitfloor-hacked-250000-missing/ this one is the most read article we ever had (counting by hits since we've started the website). On the second place is http://bitcoinmagazine.net/the-silk-road-report/ .

Trust me, I would prefer it to have more positive news and articles. Unfortunately, it is not up to the mirror what it shows. It seems that embracing negativity and riding "there is no such thing as bad publicity" bandwagon is an obvious choice at this stage. I am not convinced that such "gray" PR necessarily will have long term negative consequences.

Edit:

just for illustration adding coundown of top 9 most popular Bitcoin Magaizne website articles, May 1st Sep 7th, (1 - most popular):
9. Ponzi Scemes the danger of high interest savings funds
8. Bitcoin savings trust geniune of joke
7. Adam Kokesh on Bitcoin and free amrket money
6. Silk Road armory terminated
5. Growing decentralisation in the bitcoin economy
4. Bitcoin gone wild
3. Bitpay breaks daily volume record
2. The silk Road report
1. Bitfloor hacked, 250000$ mising.

Print version is much more diverse and positive however.

TBC, I am of the camp that espouses any exposure to a brand, even negative, is good publicity, but wave upon wave of negativity erodes our precious beach, so to speak.

Any at rate, I don't have any issue with you, Vladimir (currently), and have promised Matthew that if any negativeness involving him comes to light during my asinine research, I will contact him first prior to publishing. I now include that promise toward anybody in his camp, save for forgetting that such-and-such is in said camp if I ever make the mistake of publishing first.

That said, keep up the excellent work you're doing over there, but please consider letting us know as much as possible as to what the heck you guys are working on. Case in point, see the last meme I published.

Later, bud.

~Bruno~

greyhawk

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What about selling toxic cakes for BTC at church bake sales? This should get everyone on board. The compassionate guys and the "bad things = more exposure" crows.

Portnoy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Vladimir on September 08, 2012, 12:56:08 PM

Phinnaeus Gage, this is actually a very serious topic you are bringing up here.

Yep indeed it seems Bitcoin is riding one wave of negative news after another. I also have stats of online article popularity and I will tell you that http://bitcoinmagazine.net/bitfloor-hacked-250000-missing/ this one is the most read article we ever had (counting by hits since we've started the website). On the second place is http://bitcoinmagazine.net/the-silk-road-report/ .

Trust me, I would prefer it to have more positive news and articles. Unfortunately, it is not up to the mirror what it shows. It seems that embracing negativity and riding "there is no such thing as bad publicity" bandwagon is an obvious choice at this stage. I am not convinced that such "gray" PR necessarily will have long term negative consequences.

Church bake sales rarely cause as much rubbernecking as fatal traffic accidents.

Yes! Lets stage a fatal traffic accident as a way to promote bitcoin! We could put bitcoin logos on the dead bodies.
That will be sure to bring a lot of positive attention and users eager to embrace this new technology that will improve
the way we do business and live our lives the way we would like. Roll Eyes

And if anyone offers any criticism or feedback we won't be grateful for it but rather arrogantly dismiss them as children
( despite the fact that many of them are much older and have been in the world of business for much longer than us
marketing geniuses ). Yep kids that how the pros do it these days!

/edit And if you go to a church bake sale maybe you might learn a little about genuine and passionate community building and involvement.
It may be slow but it often deep and lasting... rather than a flash in the pan which comes from gimmickry and the like.

Vladimir

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-

Phinnaeus Gage, this is actually a very serious topic you are bringing up here.

Yep indeed it seems Bitcoin is riding one wave of negative news after another. I also have stats of online article popularity and I will tell you that http://bitcoinmagazine.net/bitfloor-hacked-250000-missing/ this one is the most read article we ever had (counting by hits since we've started the website). On the second place is http://bitcoinmagazine.net/the-silk-road-report/ .

Trust me, I would prefer it to have more positive news and articles. Unfortunately, it is not up to the mirror what it shows. It seems that embracing negativity and riding "there is no such thing as bad publicity" bandwagon is an obvious choice at this stage. I am not convinced that such "gray" PR necessarily will have long term negative consequences.

Edit:

just for illustration adding coundown of top 9 most popular Bitcoin Magaizne website articles, May 1st Sep 7th, (1 - most popular):
9. Ponzi Scemes the danger of high interest savings funds
8. Bitcoin savings trust geniune of joke
7. Adam Kokesh on Bitcoin and free market money
6. Silk Road armory terminated
5. Growing decentralisation in the bitcoin economy
4. Bitcoin gone wild
3. Bitpay breaks daily volume record
2. The silk Road report
1. Bitfloor hacked, 250000$ mising.

Print version is much more diverse and positive however.

FLHippy

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Quote from: mirelo on September 08, 2012, 08:43:47 AM

Quote from: FLHippy on September 08, 2012, 08:30:29 AM

I've been paying pretty close attention for a little over a year now. Until recently I kinda just watched and waited while hustling a few coins to pay for my lunch.

Just curious: what made you change your attitude?

I didn't change my attitude at all. I'm still hustling a few coins to pay for my lunch. Cashing out.

The recent even is I signed up for an account on the forums. And I got a spiffy back injury so I have more time to do things like read this forum while I recover. Silent Hill is on the TV and I'm going to have to re-watch it cause the various high-level bitcoin dramas are more interesting than the horror flick.

I think I just woke up in a shitty state and felt a need to vent about history repeating.

I would rather be sailing. I'm sure you would rather I be sailing also?

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: Vladimir on September 08, 2012, 10:49:12 AM

Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on September 08, 2012, 08:22:12 AM

Quote from: bg002h on September 08, 2012, 07:33:36 AM

I think BitInstant didn't do anything so terrible. Because everyone knows there never was a real extortion threat, BitInstant doesn't look bad for offering to help out in jest.

This.

Quote from: SgtSpike on September 07, 2012, 11:12:12 AM

Bitinstant didn't do this for Romney - they did it for all the tens of thousands of people who are now researching Bitcoins after reading the article about the attempted extortion, and are wondering how to easily acquire Bitcoins for themselves. Read the latter portion of Erik's quote:

Quote

Not only that, we’ll also show you how to safely use a Bitcoin wallet, back up and encrypt it, and make payments. We’ll even set you up with a Bitcoin app on your iPhone! You’ll be a Bitcoin expert in no time!

He makes the business sound incredibly helpful to newbies. Which is exactly who will be reading the article, and exactly who will end up purchasing Bitcoins through Bitinstant because of it. Even though he is addressing Romney in the quote, he is really addressing all of the people who have just heard about Bitcoin for the first time.

Oh, and does everyone realize that both presidential candidates now know full well what Bitcoin is? Cheesy

Yep, kids, watch how pros expertly do PR and learn from them.

With all due respect to Vladimir. (seriosly)

I can probably safely assume you're a hell of lot better at PR than most on this forum, but here's where I'm having a problem.

In early spring of this year, I was gung-ho about evangelizing Bitcoin until shit started to hit the fan, e.g., Zhou 1,2, and 3, then Pirate, then Bitfloor, now Mitt (think I'm missing one or two others). It makes it rather difficult to promote something when all the person to whom you're promoting to has to do is Google Bitcoin, then all your earnest efforts are then tossed out the window with the bath water.

I'm pretty sure there's some great white-hat marketing approaches in the works by various bitcoiners, but any gray-hat/black-hat marketing ploy will surely backfire, and that's indicative of any product or service promotion involving Bitcoin or not.

This post is in no way pointing any fingers, but come on, guys, let's be a little more forthcoming.

Peace!

~Bruno~

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: FlipPro on September 08, 2012, 05:58:38 AM

Quote from: interlagos on September 08, 2012, 05:46:27 AM

I'm with Bitinstant on this one.
That's the spirit of Bitcoin - we are building a disruptive technology which will take over the world.
We aim at no less, so why be so shy about it?
Winners will write the history.

We can be disruptive without breaking any laws in the process....

...or via gray-hat/black-hat techniques. Heroes wear white hats.

~Bruno~

cypherdoc

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: FlipPro on September 08, 2012, 02:30:57 AM

Quote from: dissipate on September 08, 2012, 02:23:27 AM

Unfortunately, those in political office won't see it as just a tool, and they might try to shut down exchanges and Bitcoin based businesses. Sad

My ultimate fear.

Innocent businesses like Alpaca Socks and many other organically successful BTC businesses having to stop excepting BTC (thus killing their businesses), because of this nonsense.

So your fear is that government might shut down legitimate Bitcoin businesses (ultimately because of the properties of Bitcoin)? And we, as Bitcoiners, should all be walking on eggshells to prevent this from happening?

If you truly belive that Bitcoin can and will change the way the world works, at some point there will be a clash between Bitcoin and the entrenched systems which Bitcoin renders obsolete. The people who control those systems will most certainly fight to maintain their power.

Bitcoin can only change the world if those who support it refuse to obey any authority which attempts to shut it down. If it does get to that point, you then have two choices. Obey the authorities and stop using Bitcoin, or ignore them and continue to use Bitcoin.

At some point you have to stop being afraid and make a stand for what you believe in. If the recent news bothers you, well hold on to your hat, because if the fight does come, it will get much, much worse.

well said Holliday.

Portnoy

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Quote from: Vladimir on September 08, 2012, 10:49:12 AM

Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on September 08, 2012, 08:22:12 AM

Quote from: bg002h on September 08, 2012, 07:33:36 AM

I think BitInstant didn't do anything so terrible. Because everyone knows there never was a real extortion threat, BitInstant doesn't look bad for offering to help out in jest.

This.

Quote from: SgtSpike on September 07, 2012, 11:12:12 AM

Bitinstant didn't do this for Romney - they did it for all the tens of thousands of people who are now researching Bitcoins after reading the article about the attempted extortion, and are wondering how to easily acquire Bitcoins for themselves. Read the latter portion of Erik's quote:

Quote

Not only that, we’ll also show you how to safely use a Bitcoin wallet, back up and encrypt it, and make payments. We’ll even set you up with a Bitcoin app on your iPhone! You’ll be a Bitcoin expert in no time!

He makes the business sound incredibly helpful to newbies. Which is exactly who will be reading the article, and exactly who will end up purchasing Bitcoins through Bitinstant because of it. Even though he is addressing Romney in the quote, he is really addressing all of the people who have just heard about Bitcoin for the first time.

Oh, and does everyone realize that both presidential candidates now know full well what Bitcoin is? Cheesy

Yep, kids, watch how pros expertly do PR and learn from them.

Ya, like spamming up the general discussion forum with your bitcoin magazine advertising, not very well veiled as actual discussion.

You and Voorhees have a lot to learn about responsible advertising and promotion imo.

Vladimir

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-

Quote from: Yankee (BitInstant) on September 08, 2012, 08:22:12 AM

Quote from: bg002h on September 08, 2012, 07:33:36 AM

I think BitInstant didn't do anything so terrible. Because everyone knows there never was a real extortion threat, BitInstant doesn't look bad for offering to help out in jest.

This.

Quote from: SgtSpike on September 07, 2012, 11:12:12 AM

Bitinstant didn't do this for Romney - they did it for all the tens of thousands of people who are now researching Bitcoins after reading the article about the attempted extortion, and are wondering how to easily acquire Bitcoins for themselves. Read the latter portion of Erik's quote:

Quote

Not only that, we’ll also show you how to safely use a Bitcoin wallet, back up and encrypt it, and make payments. We’ll even set you up with a Bitcoin app on your iPhone! You’ll be a Bitcoin expert in no time!

He makes the business sound incredibly helpful to newbies. Which is exactly who will be reading the article, and exactly who will end up purchasing Bitcoins through Bitinstant because of it. Even though he is addressing Romney in the quote, he is really addressing all of the people who have just heard about Bitcoin for the first time.

Oh, and does everyone realize that both presidential candidates now know full well what Bitcoin is? Cheesy

Yep, kids, watch how pros expertly do PR and learn from them.

n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU

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Although I don't think any harm will come from this particular publicity stunt, I don't think it's wise to play jokes with people who are notorious for their lack of humour and who have a monopoly on the use of force.

And, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Unfortunately, this episode means that we now have many people whose first exposure to the word Bitcoin is in the context of a theft/extortion scenario, further assisting the "Bitcoin as currency of crooks and perverts" narrative.

Bitcoin is young and its ecosystem is weak. It would be much wiser for Bitcoin to lay low and out of the public eye until the technology and infrastructure is out of the beta stage, complemented by mature products and services, and widespread enough in use so as to make attacking it both politically and technically difficult.

Precisely because Bitcoin is so disruptive and dangerous to the establishment, I share the following gentleman's concern that the Bitcoin community (and high-profile service providers like BitInstant) should not, even in jest, go around deliberately kicking potential hornet's nests by linking Bitcoin to politicized events under government investigation:

Quote from: satoshi on December 11, 2010, 06:39:16 PM

It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context.

Topic: Bitinstant brokering extortion threats? - page 3. (Read 7395 times)