Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!? - page 7.

Fernandez

legendary

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Quote from: clout on July 05, 2014, 03:59:36 PM

Quote from: Fernandez on July 05, 2014, 02:27:45 AM

Quote from: brian_23452 on July 04, 2014, 09:37:21 PM

You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February? The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it? That bitshares X? Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more?

Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this. PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

At least you managed to get in their private party. I am quite regular on this forum and completely missed it.

Thats because the forum has been flooded with junk. BitShares was announced a year ago. you can still donate funds to the ecosystem through BitShares AGS . BitShares has the longest and most open funding model of any of the next generation projects. I suggest you acquire AGS while they are still cheap and available. The AGS crowdfunding ends in less than two weeks.

I know you can invest now. It was devious how you rushed to allot yourselves the main product.
Allot yourselves quickly, then ask for money for the other 2nd rate products, excellent model.

clout

full member

Activity: 207

Merit: 100

Quote from: devphp on July 11, 2014, 01:00:53 AM

Quote from: FriendsOfBitshares on July 11, 2014, 12:46:04 AM

Here is the simple explanation. If I have a relatively small portion of NXT I will very rarely mine a block. Therefore, for it to be worth my while, the fees have to be extra high to make up for this. So for the NXT system work and maintain decentralization, transaction fees have to be grossly inflated or the network has to rely on the good will of the owners of forging nodes.

So the short short of it is NXT/Peercoin need inflated fees to maintain decentralization.

It depends on a lot of factors.
Renting a VPS costs $3-5/month (that's the total monthly cost of operating a node that you can forge on).
Your profit from forging needs to be above that for forging to be justified.

But since we don't know how much 1 NXT will cost, how many txs the NXT network will handle, we can't calculate how much in fees forging will bring, and how much in fiat that will translate to. It's all guessing at this point, it all depends on demand for crypto currencies from general population. Hence, no analysis is possible with any reliable degree of accuracy.

we know how much the network can handle. 0.5 tps to 3.4 given the current block limit. Maybe you can raise the limit but you certainly won't be able to run a full node on a vps for $3-5/month. Bitshares is attempting to scale to visa transaction loads of 10,000 tps. I don't see nxt scaling very well. The analysis isn't really about nxt vs bitshares, its about the centralization that naturally develops as the network expands. Whether there are 100 nodes producing blocks or there are 350 increasing the tps will increase the cost of running a full node to the point that multiple nodes will be controlled by the same individual or group. Dpos doesn't pretend that block production will not be centralized and instead designs that centralizationinto the system. Control of the network is still decentralized among the shareholders of the network, who effortlessly secure the network from arbitrary control. The greatest form of decentralization is free market competition which is the selection process for active delegates.

schnötzel

legendary

Activity: 1316

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Bitcoin is a bit**

Thanks.

liondani

member

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Inch by Inch,Play by Play

Quote from: schnötzel on July 11, 2014, 09:19:18 AM

Thanks (even i´m more confused as before Cheesy

)

A good place to start Wink

http://bitshares.org/faq/

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page

schnötzel

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1041

Bitcoin is a bit**

Thanks (even i´m more confused as before Cheesy

)

liondani

member

Activity: 97

Merit: 10

Inch by Inch,Play by Play

Quote from: schnötzel on July 11, 2014, 08:46:24 AM

"..HE DIDN'T LOOSE because he owns now about +650000 BTSX (BitSharesX coins that works with DPOS chain calculated with 2 billion suply) and NOT ONLY the first 1000 PTS...:"

Huh

If i own some bitshares-pts, how can i get the bitsharesx?

If you had your BitShares-PTS at 28 Februar 2014 (the snapshot took place that day and honored all PTS holders) you are a BitShares-BTSX owner too!
If not you will receive your shares from future DACs (until now no snapshots! BitShares-Music,BitShares-ME,BitShares-Insurance,BitShares-DNS and many more in the list to come very soon !!!)

As soon as BitSharesX final chain is out it will be easy to get your BTSX importing your private keys from the "old" PTS wallet...
It will be very easy, more details when BTSX is officialy out (now on testing phase). For now BTSX are available only for trading (not withdrawals or deposits) at bter https://bter.com/trade/btsx_btc
and btc38 http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=btsx

schnötzel

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1041

Bitcoin is a bit**

"..HE DIDN'T LOOSE because he owns now about +650000 BTSX (BitSharesX coins that works with DPOS chain calculated with 2 billion suply) and NOT ONLY the first 1000 PTS...:"

Huh

If i own some bitshares-pts, how can i get the bitsharesx?

liondani

member

Activity: 97

Merit: 10

Inch by Inch,Play by Play

Quote from: XbladeX on July 11, 2014, 02:26:11 AM

i got some Btishares but i can be even sure that price can even fall acordingg to donate exchange

...
Overal graph looks on down trend to me...
And i know many sytuations where IPO people were losing money...
1st better example maid safe coin IPO 5000 sat now about 3600 sat

Exactly it looks like a downtrend... but in reality it is not !!!
Let me explain. Buying BitShares-PTS you don't own only BitShares-PTS but a percentage in future DACs (Decetralized Autononomus Companys)
Imagine someone has bought 1000 BitShares-PTS at 0.014 BTC (14 BTC investment) on Januar ( https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/119 ) and now he has "lost" 50% because the price right now is at 0.007 BTC....
HE DIDN'T LOOSE because he owns now about +650000 BTSX (BitSharesX coins that works with DPOS chain calculated with 2 billion suply) and NOT ONLY the first 1000 PTS...
That means (1000 PTS * 0.007 BTC) + (650000 BTSX * 0.0000170 BTC) = 7 BTC + 11,05 BTC = a total of 18,05 BTC that means a net profit 4.05 BTC (about 30%)
and we don't even have included the profits from a percentage in future DACs !!! And don't forget that BTSX price is (in my opinion) undervalued because investors are still not very well informed and right now
the "product" is still in the testing phase (Dry Run Cool

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5523.0

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: FriendsOfBitshares on July 11, 2014, 07:11:42 AM

It would not be hard to take that same code and find the average transaction fee per block found.

I am not talking about average fees per block. I am talking about how much that would be in fiat in the future, we don't know that. We don't know how much fees per block will be in the future. All this 'analysis' based on past events is not relevant. It could well justify renting a VPS, labor is not a lot, 30 mins per month(?), NXT is already quite stable. Especially funny if someone projects fees based on their testnet, as in the case of BitShares.

FriendsOfBitshares

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

Quote from: devphp on July 11, 2014, 01:00:53 AM

Quote from: FriendsOfBitshares on July 11, 2014, 12:46:04 AM

Here is the simple explanation. If I have a relatively small portion of NXT I will very rarely mine a block. Therefore, for it to be worth my while, the fees have to be extra high to make up for this. So for the NXT system work and maintain decentralization, transaction fees have to be grossly inflated or the network has to rely on the good will of the owners of forging nodes.

So the short short of it is NXT/Peercoin need inflated fees to maintain decentralization.

It depends on a lot of factors.
Renting a VPS costs $3-5/month (that's the total monthly cost of operating a node that you can forge on).
Your profit from forging needs to be above that for forging to be justified.

But since we don't know how much 1 NXT will cost, how many txs the NXT network will handle, we can't calculate how much in fees forging will bring, and how much in fiat that will translate to. It's all guessing at this point, it all depends on demand for crypto currencies from general population. Hence, no analysis is possible with any reliable degree of accuracy.

No, the average transaction fees can easily be obtained given you are skillful enough. Someone posted code to walk the blockchain and find the number of wallets that had forged one block. It would not be hard to take that same code and find the average transaction fee per block found. The average expectation could then easily be found if someone cared enough to go figure it out. Accuracy of the analysis could also be measured if one had the proper math skills.

Your analysis however assumes that the labor involved in the upkeep of a node is 0. Most people value their time to some degree.

I'm not knocking NXT. I think they've done a lot of neat things and are continuing to do neat things. Just because no one cares enough to do the actual full on analysis doesn't make the hypothesis invalid.

xeroc

sr. member

Activity: 345

Merit: 250

Quote from: XbladeX on July 11, 2014, 03:28:57 AM

I am talking about IPOs at all they are not guarante price no mater in what you invest - i like technology behind but...
Bithsares raped people in shares graph and chart is collapsing today with demand it can go high it can go down also. 150BTC per share stake that will be 10x loss if they would buy today...

Anyway this is best fair IPO i have ever seen serious. - cut overhype part in march

i refer to title: "Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price" title like that is red light :-)
anywya i back up technology more than price.

neither PTS nor AGS are IPOs .. PTS is an altcoin while AGS were always declared to be *donations*!
No IPO took place at BitShares .. e v e r!

XbladeX

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1002

Quote from: xeroc on July 11, 2014, 02:27:46 AM

Quote from: XbladeX on July 11, 2014, 02:26:11 AM

i got some Btishares but i can be even sure that price can even fall acordingg to donate exchange

...
Overal graph looks on down trend to me...
And i know many sytuations where IPO people were losing money...
1st better example maid safe coin IPO 5000 sat now about 3600 sat

You are not seriously comparing BitShares with Midsafe, do you?

Prior to investing there should always be investigation!

I am talking about IPOs at all they are not guarante price no mater in what you invest - i like technology behind but...
Bithsares raped people in shares graph and chart is collapsing today with demand it can go high it can go down also. 150BTC per share stake that will be 10x loss if they would buy today...

Anyway this is best fair IPO i have ever seen serious. - cut overhype part in march

i refer to title: "Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price" title like that is red light :-)
anywya i back up technology more than price.

xeroc

sr. member

Activity: 345

Merit: 250

Quote from: XbladeX on July 11, 2014, 02:26:11 AM

i got some Btishares but i can be even sure that price can even fall acordingg to donate exchange

...
Overal graph looks on down trend to me...
And i know many sytuations where IPO people were losing money...
1st better example maid safe coin IPO 5000 sat now about 3600 sat

You are not seriously comparing BitShares with Midsafe, do you?

Prior to investing there should always be investigation!

XbladeX

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1002

i got some Btishares but i can be even sure that price can even fall acordingg to donate exchange

...
Overal graph looks on down trend to me...
And i know many sytuations where IPO people were losing money...
1st better example maid safe coin IPO 5000 sat now about 3600 sat

theone1e

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Waiting too long time,it is not responsible for investors.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: FriendsOfBitshares on July 11, 2014, 12:46:04 AM

Here is the simple explanation. If I have a relatively small portion of NXT I will very rarely mine a block. Therefore, for it to be worth my while, the fees have to be extra high to make up for this. So for the NXT system work and maintain decentralization, transaction fees have to be grossly inflated or the network has to rely on the good will of the owners of forging nodes.

So the short short of it is NXT/Peercoin need inflated fees to maintain decentralization.

It depends on a lot of factors.
Renting a VPS costs $3-5/month (that's the total monthly cost of operating a node that you can forge on).
Your profit from forging needs to be above that for forging to be justified.

But since we don't know how much 1 NXT will cost, how many txs the NXT network will handle, we can't calculate how much in fees forging will bring, and how much in fiat that will translate to. It's all guessing at this point, it all depends on demand for crypto currencies from general population. Hence, no analysis is possible with any reliable degree of accuracy.

FriendsOfBitshares

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

Quote from: devphp on July 11, 2014, 12:15:15 AM

Quote from: liondani on July 10, 2014, 08:33:32 PM

Bytemaster (BitShares founder, Daniel Larimer) made an very interesting analysis that will answer all of us a lot of questions about the pros and cons of every system... It is worth reading...

If this 'analysis' is as objective as the issues I outlined here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7736134
I wouldn't bother with reading it. Besides, it's hard to predict anything in cryptos even if you try to stay objective, everything changes blazing fast.

Here is the simple explanation. If I have a relatively small portion of NXT I will very rarely mine a block. Therefore, for it to be worth my while, the fees have to be extra high to make up for this. So for the NXT system work and maintain decentralization, transaction fees have to be grossly inflated or the network has to rely on the good will of the owners of forging nodes.

So the short short of it is NXT/Peercoin need inflated fees to maintain decentralization.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: liondani on July 10, 2014, 08:33:32 PM

Bytemaster (BitShares founder, Daniel Larimer) made an very interesting analysis that will answer all of us a lot of questions about the pros and cons of every system... It is worth reading...

If this 'analysis' is as objective as the issues I outlined here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7736134
I wouldn't bother with reading it. Besides, it's hard to predict anything in cryptos even if you try to stay objective, everything changes blazing fast.

liondani

member

Activity: 97

Merit: 10

Inch by Inch,Play by Play

FriendsOfBitshares

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

Quote from: ChuckOne on July 10, 2014, 02:53:18 PM

Point is the consensus algo is the same to an extreme extend.

I think that the POS variants used by NXT and Bitshares are close enough that we should consider each other allies. The real opponent at this point is BTC and derivatives.

NEM/NXT/Bitshares are what I personally have been following. I'd follow Peercoin too, but I barely keep up with everything going on as it is. Bitshares though isn't a currency and is a ecosystem/framework to create new things, in addition to the first release which will be the Bitshares X exchange.

Topic: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!? - page 7. (Read 15264 times)