Bitstamp has taken over MTGOX on volume! - page 2.

vokain

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 07, 2013, 03:40:55 PM

There's a cool 1k+ and 500+ askwall on bitstamp & btc-e respectively. Not nearly at the levels we were used to on gox but there is a trend... The rats are leaving.

Nash Equilibrium.

This will be interesting when the new American exchanges open their doors. kraken, coinsetter, tradehill, where you at??

pyra-proxy

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It would appear if not publicly stated elsewhere that coinbase is now using bitstamp as it's underlying trade engine/pricing service instead of gox.....

ElectricMucus

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There's a cool 1k+ and 500+ askwall on bitstamp & btc-e respectively. Not nearly at the levels we were used to on gox but there is a trend... The rats are leaving.

vokain

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: vokain on August 07, 2013, 03:13:06 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

There is one thing the complete lack of volume on Bitstamp tells me; that there is a very thin population of traders just iceberging their activity, with little real diversity of position.

so the trading is just done between BTCs not being hoarded? Is this what you mean? Huh

Just the net coins that have been bought there since the peak. With the $ that have been transferred from Ft. Gox.

Those positions are now filled.

Yeah, personally I wired money there just to buy some cheap coins around 75. I don't plan on letting go of them there (yet).

and which peak, 101?

vokain

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Quote from: ?? on ??

There is one thing the complete lack of volume on Bitstamp tells me; that there is a very thin population of traders just iceberging their activity, with little real diversity of position.

so the trading is just done between BTCs not being hoarded? Is this what you mean? Huh

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: Odalv on August 06, 2013, 05:41:57 PM

It is possible, but insider trading (gox knows how many $$$/BTC are at accounts .. invisible order book) is usually very profitable. Gox can anytime shutdown or publish information with lag ... Only very very stupid person can lose money with such a big power and access to information.

Well you said it, not me. Wink

Pirate anyone? Cheesy

infested999

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Quote from: Odalv on August 06, 2013, 05:41:57 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 06, 2013, 04:07:57 PM

Quote from: Odalv on August 06, 2013, 03:48:47 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 06, 2013, 03:41:54 PM

Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

You know what would be hilarious? That they are broke because the went "all in" during the bubble on their own platform.

I do not understand why they are transfering money from USA(Europe, ..) to Japan and back. (maybe they even transfer cache using ships) :-)

Well to make the theory consistent, they might have done that only with their USD, which ironically they might need to pay for their expenses.

It is possible, but insider trading (gox knows how many $$$/BTC are at accounts .. invisible order book) is usually very profitable. Gox can anytime shutdown or publish information with lag ... Only very very stupid person can lose money with such a big power and access to information.

This is actually very important. This is equivalent to doog knowing the server seeds for Just-Dice and he could bet at his own site knowing the results beforehand.

Odalv

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 06, 2013, 04:07:57 PM

Quote from: Odalv on August 06, 2013, 03:48:47 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 06, 2013, 03:41:54 PM

Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

You know what would be hilarious? That they are broke because the went "all in" during the bubble on their own platform.

I do not understand why they are transfering money from USA(Europe, ..) to Japan and back. (maybe they even transfer cache using ships) :-)

Well to make the theory consistent, they might have done that only with their USD, which ironically they might need to pay for their expenses.

It is possible, but insider trading (gox knows how many $$$/BTC are at accounts .. invisible order book) is usually very profitable. Gox can anytime shutdown or publish information with lag ... Only very very stupid person can lose money with such a big power and access to information.

Impaler

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Hardly surprising if you have been watching the daily exchanges levels, they have just collapsed on Gox and have been setting record lows not seen in years. Obviously with daily fluctuations their isn't one day when bitstamp permanently goes into the lead but the trend has been obvious for some time now.

The thing to look for now is do BTCs on Gox begin moving over to Bitstamp, the coins should still be movable even if dollars are trapped and people may be starting to realize that the bitstamp price is the REAL sale price for a BTC and the Gox price is irrelevant to a real seller who needs USD now. The only reason to stay on Gox is if your some kind of whale who wants to buy a thousand coins at the drop of a hat, and from the looks of the trading activity on Gox that is mostly what remains.

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: ?? on ??

So the BTC in the customers account is supposed to be the risk-mitigator. How are you even supposed to measure that over a period of days?

Banks and stock brokerage firms do this kind of thing all the time. The point is that you do not release the BTC until you know the USD used to pay for them are good. Otherwise there can be a strong incentive for fraud. What I do not understand is why this will take weeks with wire transfers.

Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

While I actually do not believe that insolvency is the case here, to the end user it looks very much the same so the trust is eroded.

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: Odalv on August 06, 2013, 03:48:47 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 06, 2013, 03:41:54 PM

Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

You know what would be hilarious? That they are broke because the went "all in" during the bubble on their own platform.

I do not understand why they are transfering money from USA(Europe, ..) to Japan and back. (maybe they even transfer cache using ships) :-)

Well to make the theory consistent, they might have done that only with their USD, which ironically they might need to pay for their expenses.

Odalv

legendary

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 06, 2013, 03:41:54 PM

Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

You know what would be hilarious? That they are broke because the went "all in" during the bubble on their own platform.

I do not understand why they are transfering money from USA(Europe, ..) to Japan and back. (maybe they even transfer cache using ships) :-)

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: rampantparanoia on August 06, 2013, 03:43:11 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 06, 2013, 03:41:54 PM

Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

You know what would be hilarious? That they are broke because the went "all in" during the bubble on their own platform.

I think that's called "dogfooding"

It sure does. Grin

rampantparanoia

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on August 06, 2013, 03:41:54 PM

Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

You know what would be hilarious? That they are broke because the went "all in" during the bubble on their own platform.

I think that's called "dogfooding"

rampantparanoia

sr. member

Activity: 516

Merit: 283

Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

I guess there's a typo in the press release Grin

Quote

Deposits and Withdrawal Update Finally, the issues with deposits and withdrawals from Mt. Gox are being relieved, but still not at the rate we want. For example it currently takes up to 10 ~~days~~ weeks to process a deposit because our bank, upon receiving deposits, notifies us of the deposit but holds them for 7~10 ~~days~~ weeks before transferring them to our account. This has always been the case, and we were still crediting customer accounts before receiving the funds ourselves, but some cases in which the bank subsequently rejected the deposits meant that we incurred significant losses. The risk is now too high for us to credit accounts prematurely. We are in the process of forming relationships with new partners, banks, and taking other steps -- hopefully we will not only be back where we were before we encountered these issues , but much further ahead.

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: Nagle on August 06, 2013, 03:39:00 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

You know what would be hilarious? That they are broke because the went "all in" during the bubble on their own platform.

Nagle

legendary

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Quote from: ArticMine on August 06, 2013, 03:31:34 PM

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank.

Assuming Mt. Gox isn't broke, that's true.

It looks more and more like Mt. Gox doesn't have the money entrusted to them. They don't seem to have made significant USD payouts for seven weeks now.

ArticMine

legendary

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: ?? on ??

They could probably do this, but it would mean putting up a sizable security bond. If their bank is holding transfers for such a long time it means they consider them a risk. Gox mentioned in the press release that they had incurred sizable losses due to advancing the amount of transfers before their requests were cleared by the bank. The bank does not want to assume that risk. By whatever criterion they use Gox is a risky customer and they would need to put up an amount to offset that risk.

I am talking about withdrawals not deposits so there is no risk to the bank here since the funds are already on deposit with the bank. The problem mentioned was with deposits been credited to the customer account before the bank credited MTGox and wire being returned by the bank leaving MTGox to absorb the loss, if the BTC were immediately withdrawn from MTGox. Even in this latter scenario this could have been mitigated by placing a hold on the BTC in the customers account until the underlying USD wire had cleared.

ArticMine

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Quote from: vokain on August 06, 2013, 02:34:42 PM

makes sense

Quote from: S3052 on August 05, 2013, 06:45:50 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on August 05, 2013, 06:24:55 PM

Quote from: S3052 on August 05, 2013, 05:10:23 PM

Quote from: S3052 on August 03, 2013, 09:03:56 AM

A comment on the MtGox situation and recent development

This is a great business case study.

Chapter 1:
The first bitcoin exchange founded by Jed Caleb, running it from the start with passion for great customer satisfaction. It is growing massively. There were some technical issues, but they always got solved.

Chapter 2:
Mark Kapeles buys MtGox. Luckily for him, bitcoin takes off in the public and exchange volume rises. He is happy.

Chapter 3:
He does not seem to be as passionate and dedicated to customer service as the MtGox founder which leads to a lot of frustration. Hacks happen, security breaches, etc. MtGox is not innovating at all: The website and exchange options are as they were 2-3 years ago... Still today, there are no stop loss, stop buy, trailing orders, etc. something that many exchanges have and something that would also lead to better customer satisfaction and more volume for the exchange..

Chapter 4: The lack of innovation, bad marketing, PR and customer service leads to lower customer trust.

Chapter 5: The attempts of complying with money service regulations etc. are too late and withdrawals got stopped or delayed so much that the community loses even more faith..

Chapter 6: People leave MtGox in masses and other exchanges profit.

This is how market leaders fall... while with just a little business and marketing sense this could have been avoided... Just my 1ct ....

finally MtGox is trying to react with PR statements, but still, based on my own experience nothing moves really smoothly in terms of withdrawals. I cancelled mine after 5 weeks of false promises from MtGox.

I read the press release https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20130805.html. It is silent with specifics when it comes to USD withdrawals.

I agree. With every piece of communication they erode my trust further

MTGox needs to address the USD withdrawal issue back to where it was earlier this year where one would request a USD wire transfer and receive it within two days, sometimes even the next day. The press release contains a lot of positive information, but its silence on the specifics of this one issue speaks volumes.

chmod755

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Bitstamp is USD only - Mt.Gox has some other currencies too so it's actually ~14661.47 BTC traded on Mt.Gox for fiat money during the last 24 hours.

Topic: Bitstamp has taken over MTGOX on volume! - page 2. (Read 4316 times)