Blockchain.info misreports origins (Was:Swiss University jumps into mining game)

gmaxwell

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Quote from: SgtSpike on September 28, 2012, 01:51:33 PM

So out of the list of blocks relayed by that IP, how many were generated by known mining pools?

There are several BTC guild blocks in there, also 50btc.

Jesus. Why does everyone freak out stupidly every time someone notices an instance of a bunch of misreported blocks on blockchain.info. The blockchain.info relayed from fields are frequently wrong and if you understand how it works you won't be surprised by this.

I've locked this thread. The relaying activity of 82.130.102.160 is interesting; but it's almost certainly not mining blocks at all. Start a new thread that doesn't begin with the erroneous assumption that the blockchain.info relayed by field means anything reliable please.

phillipsjk

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Quote from: mc_lovin on September 28, 2012, 01:51:47 PM

You'd think they would make more bitcoin simply by mining.

It's an interesting experiment, but IMHO they must be stopped at all costs.

Now, if a person orders twenty of the 1TH/s BFL rigs, could they not do the same thing?

I believe those cost $30,000x20=$600,000.

I brought up a temporary CPU miner, but it has yet to catch up to the block-chain.

mc_lovin

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You'd think they would make more bitcoin simply by mining.

It's an interesting experiment, but IMHO they must be stopped at all costs.

Now, if a person orders twenty of the 1TH/s BFL rigs, could they not do the same thing?

SgtSpike

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So out of the list of blocks relayed by that IP, how many were generated by known mining pools?

Gyrsur

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Quote from: makomk on September 28, 2012, 01:43:05 PM

Quote from: Fjordbit on September 28, 2012, 12:48:32 PM

On the question of is it possible, yes it is theoretically possible to see a block submitted to the network and then publish that block quickly from a highly connected node and it will look like it came from you. So maybe that's what they are doing here.

Almost certainly. I've decompiled the Python code in snoopy.tar.bz2 from that web server and that appears to be exactly what it's doing.

but why?

makomk

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Quote from: Fjordbit on September 28, 2012, 12:48:32 PM

On the question of is it possible, yes it is theoretically possible to see a block submitted to the network and then publish that block quickly from a highly connected node and it will look like it came from you. So maybe that's what they are doing here.

Almost certainly. I've decompiled the Python code in snoopy.tar.bz2 from that web server and that appears to be exactly what it's doing.

symbot

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Up until a little over 2 years ago I worked at ETH in Zurich. I was in engineering and not computer science or informatics, so I don't know anything specific about what might be going on, but this is what came to my mind while reading this thread...

1) All students and staff at ETHZ can readily get free access to supercomputing resources for research purposes. There is a lot of computing power there that sits idle most of the time.

2) The University also has a very fast internet connection that can be exploited by p2p applications. The example I have of this is that we were allowed to use Skype on our computers, but we were told to always shut it down and exit completely when we weren't using it. If we left it running on our computers it wouldn't be long before our fast internet connection and computer were being used by Skype's network as a "supernode" which would generate unnecessary traffic.

So, 1) implies it is possible that they are actually mining, but 2) means it could also be the case that somebody left their bitcoin client open on an ETHZ computer and it has become a supernode.

This post does not actually contain any useful new information.

crazyates

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You can't just "steal" a block from the network by pretending you found it first. See this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1118816

Yolocoin

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You guys do realize that what they're doing is just the free market at work...

apetersson

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so there is some "proof" that ETHZ is not doing the mining but only acting as a relay and is being detected as the "origin"

take a look at this address:

http://blockchain.info/address/13XgASZP7N6pTMeyS5Sq8JeuCAkNzefnT7

some blocks relayed by this host 82.130.102.160 generate output to this address. other blocks are more often reported as 50BTC

so for me the conclusion is that this is just a very well-connected node, relaying block from regular nodes fast enough that they get them attributed.

which makes sense from an academic point of view. propably they are trying to gather some metrics or maybe they are trying to do hashtable pollution of some sort which seems to be on their list of hobbies. so nothing to worry about.

RodeoX

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Quote from: Fjordbit on September 28, 2012, 12:48:32 PM

Quote from: zorgberg on September 28, 2012, 12:19:03 PM

The BitThief exploit allows someone to 'leech' from the BitTorrent network without actually contributing resources yourself.

Is it possible that they are using a similar exploit to leach block discoveries from the bitcoin network without actually doing any mining on their own?

That could explain how they are getting so much hashpower (i.e. they don't really have it).

On the question of is it possible, yes it is theoretically possible to see a block submitted to the network and then publish that block quickly from a highly connected node and it will look like it came from you. So maybe that's what they are doing here.

To be clear, though, the coins still go to the address in the generation transaction, so they can't steal your coins. It just makes it look like the block came from a different IP.

I still don't think that applies here.

What if I did this as a member of a mining pool? Could I then claim that I contributed to the network and deserve a share of the reward? Any one checking the facts would see that the block originated from my IP, right?

niko

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Quote from: Fjordbit on September 28, 2012, 12:48:32 PM

Quote from: zorgberg on September 28, 2012, 12:19:03 PM

The BitThief exploit allows someone to 'leech' from the BitTorrent network without actually contributing resources yourself.

Is it possible that they are using a similar exploit to leach block discoveries from the bitcoin network without actually doing any mining on their own?

That could explain how they are getting so much hashpower (i.e. they don't really have it).

On the question of is it possible, yes it is theoretically possible to see a block submitted to the network and then publish that block quickly from a highly connected node and it will look like it came from you. So maybe that's what they are doing here.

To be clear, though, the coins still go to the address in the generation transaction, so they can't steal your coins. It just makes it look like the block came from a different IP.

I still don't think that applies here.

How would this attacker get the private key to spend block reward?

Gyrsur

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Quote from: DeepBit on September 28, 2012, 12:35:59 PM

Quote from: Gyrsur on September 28, 2012, 07:20:11 AM

Quote from: DeepBit on September 28, 2012, 07:17:46 AM

How do you know it's not just relaying someone's blocks ?

How do you know it's not just mining some blocks ?

Well,
1) I suspect that you still don't believe us about how the block relaying and blockchaininfo's IP detection works.
2) Some of those blocks were mined by Deepbit and other pools.

So I think that this is just a well-connected node.

you are free to proof what you say. not a personal thing but without any proof of what you did say you did say nothing.

Fjordbit

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firstbits.com/1kznfw

Quote from: zorgberg on September 28, 2012, 12:19:03 PM

The BitThief exploit allows someone to 'leech' from the BitTorrent network without actually contributing resources yourself.

Is it possible that they are using a similar exploit to leach block discoveries from the bitcoin network without actually doing any mining on their own?

That could explain how they are getting so much hashpower (i.e. they don't really have it).

On the question of is it possible, yes it is theoretically possible to see a block submitted to the network and then publish that block quickly from a highly connected node and it will look like it came from you. So maybe that's what they are doing here.

To be clear, though, the coins still go to the address in the generation transaction, so they can't steal your coins. It just makes it look like the block came from a different IP.

I still don't think that applies here.

cedivad

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This is time to study the protocol.

DeepBit

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Quote from: Gyrsur on September 28, 2012, 07:20:11 AM

Quote from: DeepBit on September 28, 2012, 07:17:46 AM

How do you know it's not just relaying someone's blocks ?

How do you know it's not just mining some blocks ?

Well,
1) I suspect that you still don't believe us about how the block relaying and blockchaininfo's IP detection works.
2) Some of those blocks were mined by Deepbit and other pools.

So I think that this is just a well-connected node.

niko

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: zorgberg on September 28, 2012, 12:19:03 PM

The BitThief exploit allows someone to 'leech' from the BitTorrent network without actually contributing resources yourself.

Is it possible that they are using a similar exploit to leach block discoveries from the bitcoin network without actually doing any mining on their own?

That could explain how they are getting so much hashpower (i.e. they don't really have it).

If this were the case, there should be an increase in orphaned blocks, right?

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: zorgberg on September 28, 2012, 12:19:03 PM

The BitThief exploit allows someone to 'leech' from the BitTorrent network without actually contributing resources yourself.

Is it possible that they are using a similar exploit to leach block discoveries from the bitcoin network without actually doing any mining on their own?

That could explain how they are getting so much hashpower (i.e. they don't really have it).

That's what I was wondering. The guy's expertise is in selfishness and cheating in P2P networks, and he is into bitcoins. That is a bad combination. lol

Sitarow

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Quote from: SgtSpike on September 28, 2012, 11:13:24 AM

So they have around 9% network hashing power...

How massive of a supercomputer would they have to use to get 2 TH/s? And does anyone know if they HAVE a supercomputer at that university?

4 more weeks and their efforts are in vain.

zorgberg

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The BitThief exploit allows someone to 'leech' from the BitTorrent network without actually contributing resources yourself.

Is it possible that they are using a similar exploit to leach block discoveries from the bitcoin network without actually doing any mining on their own?

That could explain how they are getting so much hashpower (i.e. they don't really have it).

Topic: Blockchain.info misreports origins (Was:Swiss University jumps into mining game) (Read 21289 times)