Blocksteam side chain released | Bitcointalksearch.org

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: muyuu on October 17, 2015, 06:46:52 PM

Quote from: brg444 on October 17, 2015, 04:36:07 PM

Quote from: muyuu on October 17, 2015, 02:15:45 PM

Quote from: RKing on October 17, 2015, 04:25:45 AM

So one token = one bitcoin?

100% reserve tokens.

I said the tokens are bitcoins because effectively they are in value. It's like saying 100% reserve silver dollars are only dollars when they are physical.

Yet it's much better than 100% reserve dollars which have clear trust & legal implications.

I understand that, but as far as analogies go it's not bad. Maybe the most realistic way to introduce it so people don't fall for the hurr durrr permissioned chains nonsense.

+1

I've long said sidechains will be Bitcoin's equivalent paper money

muyuu

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Quote from: brg444 on October 17, 2015, 04:36:07 PM

Quote from: muyuu on October 17, 2015, 02:15:45 PM

Quote from: RKing on October 17, 2015, 04:25:45 AM

So one token = one bitcoin?

100% reserve tokens.

I said the tokens are bitcoins because effectively they are in value. It's like saying 100% reserve silver dollars are only dollars when they are physical.

Yet it's much better than 100% reserve dollars which have clear trust & legal implications.

I understand that, but as far as analogies go it's not bad. Maybe the most realistic way to introduce it so people don't fall for the hurr durrr permissioned chains nonsense.

thejaytiesto

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Quote from: QUEDOS on October 16, 2015, 01:26:57 PM

My criticism of sidechains is based purely on them being to convoluted and complex, and also there's the fact that the door is left open for bitcoins to be lost on sidechains which of course would reflect badly on Bitcoin, and be used by the media to launch another tirade of negative propaganda

Also, if the overall goal is for exchanges to become more transparent, then these same exchanges being able to use such a sidechain achieves the opposite. Transparency will bring many obvious advantages for bitcoin

I don't understand your critique. How is your Bitcoin going to get lost exactly?
I guess it's a bit like putting your Bitcoin in an altcoin. If you put your Bitcoin in an altcoin, you are basically making an investing, and investment means risk. Maybe the altcoin is a failure, and there are no nodes to move your money back to Bitcoin. This can happen to with a sidechain that ends up a failure. I don't see this being a technical mistake, but a financial one on one's part.

PolarPoint

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I sort of trust the pegging system but I am still loosing control of my bitcoin for control of some sidechain alt. Traders will like blockstream because they can send coins to exchanges much quicker. There is still not much use for normal bitcoin users.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: muyuu on October 17, 2015, 02:15:45 PM

Quote from: RKing on October 17, 2015, 04:25:45 AM

So one token = one bitcoin?

100% reserve tokens.

I said the tokens are bitcoins because effectively they are in value. It's like saying 100% reserve silver dollars are only dollars when they are physical.

Yet it's much better than 100% reserve dollars which have clear trust & legal implications.

tvbcof

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on October 13, 2015, 06:12:06 PM

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/

Whaddya think? Kinda cool that exchanges can settle off chain but should we be concerned about centralization?

It would fulfill my prediction that when Bitcoin achieves a realistic scaling solution (in this case, subordinate chains) that the price would rise. Of course I cannot know with certainty that the good price performance over the last month is attributable to this first-cut proof of concept, but I had expected such a rise in conjunction with it. Hopefully it will be the start of a new leg up, and hopefully the next leg up will take us into the $5000-$10,000/btc range. If so, it would be worth the wait for me.

muyuu

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Quote from: RKing on October 17, 2015, 04:25:45 AM

So one token = one bitcoin?

100% reserve tokens.

I said the tokens are bitcoins because effectively they are in value. It's like saying 100% reserve silver dollars are only dollars when they are physical.

Amph

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Quote from: RKing on October 17, 2015, 04:25:45 AM

Quote from: brg444 on October 16, 2015, 02:26:06 PM

Quote from: Preclus on October 16, 2015, 02:14:23 PM

Quote from: muyuu on October 16, 2015, 04:21:46 AM

No. There is no new token, their "token" is Bitcoin.

Sidechains are described in this way:

"The sidechains ideas is this.. Send your Bitcoins to a specially formed Bitcoin address. The address is specially designed so that the coins will now be out of your control… and out of the control of anybody else either."

further on, they are described like this:

"If the second blockchain has agreed to be a Bitcoin sidechain, it now does something really special… it creates the exact same number of tokens on its own network and gives you control of them."

After sending your bitcoin to a "specially formed Bitcoin address", what do you own? A bitcoin? A token?

To be fair you own a token whose value is cryptographically pegged to its equivalent in Bitcoin.

While it isn't factually true to say that the units being moved around sidechains are bitcoins the arrangement makes it so that the scarcity of the ledger is preserved and the amount of tradeable units within the ecosystem remains the same.

So one token = one bitcoin?

this can be tweaked based on the token and sidechain itself, but what i'm seeing that it would be bad, is the time you waste by doing an addditional step

i mean you need first to send the bitcoin to the other chain, then from that other chain you need to spend those token that match those bitcoin...

RKing

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Quote from: brg444 on October 16, 2015, 02:26:06 PM

Quote from: Preclus on October 16, 2015, 02:14:23 PM

Quote from: muyuu on October 16, 2015, 04:21:46 AM

No. There is no new token, their "token" is Bitcoin.

Sidechains are described in this way:

"The sidechains ideas is this.. Send your Bitcoins to a specially formed Bitcoin address. The address is specially designed so that the coins will now be out of your control… and out of the control of anybody else either."

further on, they are described like this:

"If the second blockchain has agreed to be a Bitcoin sidechain, it now does something really special… it creates the exact same number of tokens on its own network and gives you control of them."

After sending your bitcoin to a "specially formed Bitcoin address", what do you own? A bitcoin? A token?

To be fair you own a token whose value is cryptographically pegged to its equivalent in Bitcoin.

While it isn't factually true to say that the units being moved around sidechains are bitcoins the arrangement makes it so that the scarcity of the ledger is preserved and the amount of tradeable units within the ecosystem remains the same.

So one token = one bitcoin?

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: Preclus on October 16, 2015, 02:14:23 PM

Quote from: muyuu on October 16, 2015, 04:21:46 AM

No. There is no new token, their "token" is Bitcoin.

Sidechains are described in this way:

"The sidechains ideas is this.. Send your Bitcoins to a specially formed Bitcoin address. The address is specially designed so that the coins will now be out of your control… and out of the control of anybody else either."

further on, they are described like this:

"If the second blockchain has agreed to be a Bitcoin sidechain, it now does something really special… it creates the exact same number of tokens on its own network and gives you control of them."

After sending your bitcoin to a "specially formed Bitcoin address", what do you own? A bitcoin? A token?

To be fair you own a token whose value is cryptographically pegged to its equivalent in Bitcoin.

While it isn't factually true to say that the units being moved around sidechains are bitcoins the arrangement makes it so that the scarcity of the ledger is preserved and the amount of tradeable units within the ecosystem remains the same.

Preclus

full member

Activity: 167

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Quote from: muyuu on October 16, 2015, 04:21:46 AM

No. There is no new token, their "token" is Bitcoin.

Sidechains are described in this way:

"The sidechains ideas is this.. Send your Bitcoins to a specially formed Bitcoin address. The address is specially designed so that the coins will now be out of your control… and out of the control of anybody else either."

further on, they are described like this:

"If the second blockchain has agreed to be a Bitcoin sidechain, it now does something really special… it creates the exact same number of tokens on its own network and gives you control of them."

After sending your bitcoin to a "specially formed Bitcoin address", what do you own? A bitcoin? A token?

franky1

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sounds like bitinstant 2.0

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: QUEDOS on October 16, 2015, 01:26:57 PM

My criticism of sidechains is based purely on them being to convoluted and complex, and also there's the fact that the door is left open for bitcoins to be lost on sidechains which of course would reflect badly on Bitcoin, and be used by the media to launch another tirade of negative propaganda

Also, if the overall goal is for exchanges to become more transparent, then these same exchanges being able to use such a sidechain achieves the opposite. Transparency will bring many obvious advantages for bitcoin

VeritasSapere

I think you logged into the wrong account.

QUEDOS

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My criticism of sidechains is based purely on them being to convoluted and complex, and also there's the fact that the door is left open for bitcoins to be lost on sidechains which of course would reflect badly on Bitcoin, and be used by the media to launch another tirade of negative propaganda

Also, if the overall goal is for exchanges to become more transparent, then these same exchanges being able to use such a sidechain achieves the opposite. Transparency will bring many obvious advantages for bitcoin

RKing

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: muyuu on October 16, 2015, 04:21:46 AM

Quote from: RKing on October 16, 2015, 02:49:41 AM

Will the token used by side chain dilute the value of bitcoin?

No. There is no new token, their "token" is Bitcoin.

And if you had doubts about that, it's good that you asked because maybe some people are against this for that reason. It's an important feature of this that they won't be diluting anything with their own tokens that they'd sell. Their financing is not tied to the system in any way, which is very important IMO - they have a separate consultancy contract.

As long as they do not use own token, it is good. They will earn money by subscription such as Mastercard does.

muyuu

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Quote from: RKing on October 16, 2015, 02:49:41 AM

Will the token used by side chain dilute the value of bitcoin?

No. There is no new token, their "token" is Bitcoin.

And if you had doubts about that, it's good that you asked because maybe some people are against this for that reason. It's an important feature of this that they won't be diluting anything with their own tokens that they'd sell. Their financing is not tied to the system in any way, which is very important IMO - they have a separate consultancy contract.

Lauda

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Activity: 2674

Merit: 2970

Terminated.

Quote from: RKing on October 16, 2015, 02:49:41 AM

Will the token used by side chain dilute the value of bitcoin?

What are you talking about? Of course not. This is not going to harm the value of Bitcoin.

RKing

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Will the token used by side chain dilute the value of bitcoin?

VeritasSapere

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Merit: 500

Quote from: sgbett on October 15, 2015, 04:33:59 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on October 14, 2015, 12:55:25 PM

Quote from: knight22 on October 14, 2015, 12:41:57 PM

Most people who disagree with XT or BIP101 doesn't necessary disagree with bigger blocks.

+1 for higher transaction rate.

Its wrong to say sidechain/LN is the solution.
Its wrong to say increased blocksize limit is the solution.

Its equally wrong to argue that either one of those things won't help. Equating either solution to some absurd extrapolation is bad form on both sides.

I do agree with this however, and I think that anyone who disagrees with this is being overly polarizing. Thankfully I think that most people can agree with what sgbett said here at least.

This gives me hope that we will be able to reach consensus, we need a third alternative implementation, unless either Core or XT compromises their current position. Decentralization and financial freedom is what most of us here want after all.

VeritasSapere

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Merit: 500

Quote from: brg444 on October 15, 2015, 05:01:59 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on October 15, 2015, 04:43:13 PM

Quote from: brg444 on October 15, 2015, 04:30:02 PM

Quote from: VeritasSapere on October 15, 2015, 04:10:47 PM

Quote from: brg444 on October 15, 2015, 03:50:26 PM

If sidechains do not require nLockTime and BIP65 then I was wrong and I can accept that, it is wisdom to recognize when we are wrong.

Some might do, not all of them. Are you aware that BIP65 is not yet implemented ?

I suppose that is where some of the confusion might lie then, since when I learned about sidechains I thought that nLockTime was required. Interesting to learn that they do not all require this. If there is no change to the Bitcoin code then it does not require consensus indeed.

The lighting network does require nLocktime or BIP65 however. I am not as skeptical of the lighting network actually, as long as the main bitcoin blockchain still remains viable for most people, I do not have any issues with the lightening network, I rather like it in fact.

Topic: Blocksteam side chain released (Read 4806 times)