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Topic: Blockstream is nothing more than a $70M blockchain takeover attempt - page 2. (Read 2858 times)

sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 263
The devil is in the detail.

I wish I knew what the answer was, I just know the answer is not centralized mining with BU.

How does BU make mining more centralized in your view? 



Mining is already centralizing in China.

BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin.

If they succeed, China will control the production of mining equipment, the actual "mining" securing of the network, and the development of Bitcoin. Centralization at its finest.

A restrictive communist country will control our beloved Bitcoin. That should scare the hell out of everyone. Why do I have to spell this out for you, OPEN your eyes! If you're not a paid shill or mentally challenged, how can you support BU?



Serious reasoning errors, man... You're not thinking clearly here. 
 
Your assumption that "BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin" is already questionable
as the only power it gives miners is that of self organization to form an emergent
consensus about the blocksize... Nothing more.

But that's not even the point. 

Let's say (for the sake of argument)  that BU gives miners some huge new power over investors, merchants, and non-mining nodes.
That power over other groups is not the same thing as power over other miners (which
would be centralization).


As you pointed out, centralization of mining already exists in China.  This is due mostly
to the fact that electrical power is generally cheaper in China than in other places,
which has zero relevance or correlation to blocksize.

Some of the centralization may also be due to the fact that hardware production
may also be cheaper in China, which also has zero relevance or correlation to
blocksize.







If they (BU) succeed, China will control the production of mining equipment, the actual "mining" securing of the network, and the development (Direction) of Bitcoin. Centralization at its finest.

Explain to me what in the above statement is not true? Please provide evidence because I have reasoning errors  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
dino

you do know pools spend too.
exchangees spend too
users spend too..
node users spend too.

your thinking of the end-user USABILITY..
in which case everyone is a user..(in your eyes)

but your not thinking about the underlying code/protocol/network infrastructure of bitcoin

all your grasping is the end user experience.

EG if bitcoin was a bank all your thinking about is the person and an ATM
your not thinking about the behind the scenes stuff..

.. if you are.. you are only comprehending it at a high-school 30second laymens understanding. but not the real function and features that make bitcoin stronger than banks or anything else

if you think that non mining nodes only job is just a data store.. you have been missinformed
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
Nope.  Nodes don't mean anything.
summary of my post below for all the TL:DR people
dinofelis you are just talking about end user experience of just spnding coins. you have not talked about the integrity, security, consensus of bitcoins self regulation of protecting the coins.

by having diverse nodes and INDEPENDENT DEVS makes it less likely for corruption of the rules aswell as avoiding the physical location attack, the more diverse the nodes get

i think you need to learn about bitcoin consensus and the protocol, beyond just the end-user experience


You see, the problem is that you are introducing ill defined concepts about what "consensus" should be, like a political or philosophical goal or something ; "protecting the coins".

But there are only two kinds of agents in a crypto currency.  There are the entities that use it.  Whether they are exchanges, merchants, speculators, ...., they are people that want to use a monetary function of bitcoin, and *transact* (buy them, sell them, exchange them.... whatever) against value.

And then there are the miners: people building block chains.  Miners are also users, because they do the mining to obtain coins, and sell them, or hold them and sell them later against something.  But most users are not miners (contrary to what Satoshi had in mind).

These two sets of entities are what makes a crypto currency.  The users transact against value, the miners make the block chain.  The users need the miners to make the block chain, and put their transaction on it.  The miners need the users to spend their fees and block rewards on.

And, essentially, that's it.

The entire crypto currency dynamics is a matter of the interaction of these two sets of entities: amongst themselves, and between one group and another.

Users need the block chain in order to "prove" their transactions to their counter party.  Without your transaction on the block chain, you didn't prove your transaction and the counter party will not provide the market value.  Users also need the block chain to prove their right to spend (if they are on the receiving side).  And that's all they need.  Users are entities, people, that want to transact tokens against value.  That's why they are there.  And they need a block chain to be able to prove their right to spend, and to prove their transactions.  This is the only thing that gives "market value" to a token.

Miners make block chains for the users, and obtain tokens as block rewards and fees, that they also sell to users, to obtain the market value.

As such, miners need to communicate with users to get their transactions, and users need to communicate with miners, to get the block chain.  This is all communication that is needed.

The phenomenon of consensus makes that users as well as miners agree upon a protocol of using the coins (of what are valid transactions) and of making the valid block chain.  the consensus mechanism involves proof of work and a whole set of rules that tell people 1) when A block chain is valid and 2) when there are several valid block chains, which is the preferred one.  The proof of work mechanism is such, that it costs a lot to make an alternative block chain, so if a miner makes a block chain, he has put a lot of investment in it.  He would lose a lot of money if he were not trying to build blocks on the "best block chain".  So you can accept that an active miner is always building on the best block chain around according to him.

So, as a miner, what do you need ?  You need to have the best block chain, and quickly, to build blocks upon.  You cannot afford learning late about the best block chain: you waste all your hash rate.  A miner can only be successful if:
1) he learns quickly about the latest blocks on the best block chain
2) he divulges very quickly his OWN found blocks to other miners
3) he gets a good filled mem pool of user transactions

This is why a miner is fully motivated to have good network infrastructure, announce his own best block chain to everybody (and especially to other miners) and takes in user transactions.

A miner is the best source of block chain, and the ultimate destiny of transactions.  There is no better source of block chain around.  It is the *principal server* of the best block chain.

Of course, a miner also has all reasons to VERIFY the integrity of the blocks of his peer miners.  If he mines upon INVALID blocks by peer miners, he is just wasting his hash rate.  So miners have in general a strong incentive to adhere to the protocol: there is a strong mechanism of consensus amongst miners.

Now, what can users do ?  If there is full consensus amongst miners, NOTHING.   Users can just accept the single block chain that miners in full consensus, make.  Users can download the block chain from miners, and like it, or not like it, but as there is no other block chain, they can't do bloody nothing, except not use that crypto any more.  

So what do non-mining nodes mean in this respect ?  Simply: nothing.  In as much as the full non mining nodes on the network are in agreement with whatever protocol the miners use amongst themselves, they are just proxy servers of the main servers which are the nodes of the miners (the pool nodes in most cases) ; and in as much as they are not in agreement, they simply come to a halt.   Because the miners, amongst themselves, make only one single block chain.

==> even if tomorrow, all miners would collude on a different protocol, say, they all agree upon not halving the block reward next time, all full nodes will come to a halt.  The only thing that users can do, is to use a node that is in agreement with the new protocol of the miner consensus.   And the only reason why miners might NOT do this, is that amongst themselves, there is a consensus mechanism at work, that would orphan blocks AMONGST MINERS.  The first miner making a block with a non-regular block reward would get his block orphaned by *other miners*, unless they collude.  And IF they collude, and implement this hard fork, and if this is the only block chain that is made, whether there are 10, 100 or 4000 non-mining nodes "protesting", there's nothing that they can do about it.

==> as long as miners are in consensus, non-mining nodes are at most proxy servers.

It becomes more interesting if there is dissidence amongst miners: if different miners use different protocols, and build TWO (or more) DIFFERENT block chains.   Then, non-mining nodes can chose between the chains.   But in the end, users will now have the choice between two chains.  The miner community will have split in two communities, building two chains.   The user can now chose WHICH block chain he is going to use.  But nothing changed in the relationship between users, and THEIR preferred miner set, and their preferred block chain.  Users will STILL communicate with the miners that correspond to their choice of block chain.  

The set of full non-mining nodes will split into two different types: those that download and transmit chain A, and those that download and transmit chain B.  But they are STILL just proxy servers of one or other block chain.  

==> even in the case of miner dissidence, and the building of multiple block chains, full non mining nodes are still proxy servers of one of these block chains.

However, now, users can appreciate the different tokens on the different chains differently concerning their market value.  Miners are sensitive to this, because miners earn tokens on the chain they are mining.  So miners will take into account the user market value appreciation when they mine different block chains (different coins).   This is the ultimate interaction by which users impose their will onto miners: by market value.

But in all of this, non mining nodes are just server proxies to miner nodes.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

I wish I knew what the answer was, I just know the answer is not centralized mining with BU.

How does BU make mining more centralized in your view? 



Mining is already centralizing in China.

BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin.

If they succeed, China will control the production of mining equipment, the actual "mining" securing of the network, and the development of Bitcoin. Centralization at its finest.

A restrictive communist country will control our beloved Bitcoin. That should scare the hell out of everyone. Why do I have to spell this out for you, OPEN your eyes! If you're not a paid shill or mentally challenged, how can you support BU?



Serious reasoning errors, man... You're not thinking clearly here. 
 
Your assumption that "BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin" is already questionable
as the only power it gives miners is that of self organization to form an emergent
consensus about the blocksize... Nothing more.

But that's not even the point. 

Let's say (for the sake of argument)  that BU gives miners some huge new power over investors, merchants, and non-mining nodes.
That power over other groups is not the same thing as power over other miners (which
would be centralization).


As you pointed out, centralization of mining already exists in China.  This is due mostly
to the fact that electrical power is generally cheaper in China than in other places,
which has zero relevance or correlation to blocksize.

Some of the centralization may also be due to the fact that hardware production
may also be cheaper in China, which also has zero relevance or correlation to
blocksize.





hero member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 520
How can a privately funded entity organize themselves by hiring Core devs with the intention of driving the future rules of the network?  Doesn't this bother most of you free loving bitcoiners?

Time to organize a new group of honest core devs having no paycheck affiliation with anyone. 

So what your saying is lets get a bunch of not so talented devs to work on core, on a voluntary basis and all the best blockchain developers who work for companies related to blockchain or bitcoin need not apply because they might have a conflict of interest?  great idea  Roll Eyes
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 263
The devil is in the detail.

I wish I knew what the answer was, I just know the answer is not centralized mining with BU.

How does BU make mining more centralized in your view? 



Mining is already centralizing in China.

BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin.

If they succeed, China will control the production of mining equipment, the actual "mining" securing of the network, and the development of Bitcoin. Centralization at its finest.

A restrictive communist country will control our beloved Bitcoin. That should scare the hell out of everyone. Why do I have to spell this out for you, OPEN your eyes! If you're not a paid shill or mentally challenged, how can you support BU?



What choice we have ?

SW ?  Hacked into code and funny SF initiated ?  Sold with heavy censorship and self moderated scream & fear threads?

How could you sell this to any miners in one go with clear limits to their business but infinite scaling in 2 nd layer ?

Not clever. Now you wonder that it gets not enough hashpower ?

There are reasons for this clusterf@ck and some people in charge messed it up - not the miners, not Ver. They came after the mess was clear .

So your solution is to just give up and give in to the Chinese control of Bitcoin?

Yes I give what I can afford to give and sometimes even more. This world needs more givers than takers and we are fine.
 Kiss

Point taken and I can agree with you most of the time, just not in this situation.
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale

I wish I knew what the answer was, I just know the answer is not centralized mining with BU.

How does BU make mining more centralized in your view? 



Mining is already centralizing in China.

BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin.

If they succeed, China will control the production of mining equipment, the actual "mining" securing of the network, and the development of Bitcoin. Centralization at its finest.

A restrictive communist country will control our beloved Bitcoin. That should scare the hell out of everyone. Why do I have to spell this out for you, OPEN your eyes! If you're not a paid shill or mentally challenged, how can you support BU?



What choice we have ?

SW ?  Hacked into code and funny SF initiated ?  Sold with heavy censorship and self moderated scream & fear threads?

How could you sell this to any miners in one go with clear limits to their business but infinite scaling in 2 nd layer ?

Not clever. Now you wonder that it gets not enough hashpower ?

There are reasons for this clusterf@ck and some people in charge messed it up - not the miners, not Ver. They came after the mess was clear .

So your solution is to just give up and give in to the Chinese control of Bitcoin?

Yes I give what I can afford to give and sometimes even more. This world needs more givers than takers and we are fine.
 Kiss
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 263
The devil is in the detail.

I wish I knew what the answer was, I just know the answer is not centralized mining with BU.

How does BU make mining more centralized in your view? 



Mining is already centralizing in China.

BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin.

If they succeed, China will control the production of mining equipment, the actual "mining" securing of the network, and the development of Bitcoin. Centralization at its finest.

A restrictive communist country will control our beloved Bitcoin. That should scare the hell out of everyone. Why do I have to spell this out for you, OPEN your eyes! If you're not a paid shill or mentally challenged, how can you support BU?



What choice we have ?

SW ?  Hacked into code and funny SF initiated ?  Sold with heavy censorship and self moderated scream & fear threads?

How could you sell this to any miners in one go with clear limits to their business but infinite scaling in 2 nd layer ?

Not clever. Now you wonder that it gets not enough hashpower ?

There are reasons for this clusterf@ck and some people in charge messed it up - not the miners, not Ver. They came after the mess was clear .

So your solution is to just give up and give in to the Chinese control of Bitcoin?
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale

I wish I knew what the answer was, I just know the answer is not centralized mining with BU.

How does BU make mining more centralized in your view? 



Mining is already centralizing in China.

BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin.

If they succeed, China will control the production of mining equipment, the actual "mining" securing of the network, and the development of Bitcoin. Centralization at its finest.

A restrictive communist country will control our beloved Bitcoin. That should scare the hell out of everyone. Why do I have to spell this out for you, OPEN your eyes! If you're not a paid shill or mentally challenged, how can you support BU?



What choice we have ?

SW ?  Hacked into code and funny SF initiated ?  Sold with heavy censorship and self moderated scream & fear threads?

How could you sell this to any miners in one go with clear limits to their business but infinite scaling in 2 nd layer ?

Not clever. Now you wonder that it gets not enough hashpower ?

There are reasons for this clusterf@ck and some people in charge messed it up - not the miners, not Ver. They came after the mess was clear .
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 263
The devil is in the detail.

I wish I knew what the answer was, I just know the answer is not centralized mining with BU.

How does BU make mining more centralized in your view? 



Mining is already centralizing in China.

BU gives miners more power over Bitcoin.

If they succeed, China will control the production of mining equipment, the actual "mining" securing of the network, and the development of Bitcoin. Centralization at its finest.

A restrictive communist country will control our beloved Bitcoin. That should scare the hell out of everyone. Why do I have to spell this out for you, OPEN your eyes! If you're not a paid shill or mentally challenged, how can you support BU?

legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
Nope.  Nodes don't mean anything.
summary of my post below for all the TL:DR people
dinofelis you are just talking about end user experience of just spnding coins. you have not talked about the integrity, security, consensus of bitcoins self regulation of protecting the coins.

by having diverse nodes and INDEPENDENT DEVS makes it less likely for corruption of the rules aswell as avoiding the physical location attack, the more diverse the nodes get

i think you need to learn about bitcoin consensus and the protocol, beyond just the end-user experience




long explanation
what you are talking about is NOT about how bitcoin works at the consensus level nor the job of what the nodes do
your talking about the millions of users that rely on third parties services to not need full nodes for all the millions of 'users'.

essentially your talking about users. not the bitcoin security network protocol.

i agree 6millionish current users dont need to run a node just to spend coins. bt that has nothing to do with how the network functions.
all your doing is explaining that users can rely on middlemen, if they wanted to. rather than be an active part of the self regulating node network.

but thats where your now talking about users becoming reliant on middle men. rather than the network rules.



what your not taking into account are that all these lite/web wallets and market services are third parties.. but they need to communicate to full node network.
even pools run a node.
so whether your emailing a pool, or api submitting a tx via a webwallet or litewallet... the tx has to sit in a mempool and meet the rules that the majority of nodes can accept. otherwise that tx wont exist.
its either rejected at mempool/relay level due to not meeting the rules. or rjected after being in the block if the node network decide the block attributes the pool used dont meet the node networks rules.



what you are forgetting is what the full node network actually does.

firstly.
again, you are right the 6mill+ users dont need full nodes. as lite and webwallets can act as the middlemen talking to a server that has the full node talking to the network.

secondly.
spending coins does not mean damned all to nodes or pools.
if you want to push a TX to ETH.. ETC wont care. data is data
ETH or ETC dont get giddy with excitement more if im spending 100000 coins and less excited if your only spending 1 coin..
data is data. tx vale is meaningless to the block/rules.

BUT

what matters is what atleast 50% (preferable as close to 95% as possible) of nodes can agree on to reduce the risks of orphaning blocks.
for instance. ALL the pools worked on ETH.. but no exchange eth node, no localbitcoin eth node and no fiat OTC private trader used ETH nodes.. then the ETH miners cant spend their coins because no one there to buy them.
those blocks and coins are just invisible to the network of ETC.

so pools will follow the NODES rules of what the nodes will accept
firstly AND more importantly follow the nodes rules otherwise the block gets orphaned and the pools reward coins dont exist so the pool has wasted time making a block that ends up in the trash.
secondly
so pools can spend their reward with exchanges that see the blocks they created

you even admit it yourself users need to make sure which chain their third party service is communicating with(or who thy are emailing to). otherwise you might aswell be emailing your transaction to the Clams network(an altcoin) rather than the bitcoin network.

your entire scenario has nothing to do with network security or integrity of validating the data. or how blocks are either accepted or rejected, it is just talking about surface layer coin USAGE, not the underlying code/protocol/security of bitcoin.


yes all coin users can just rely on third party services to handle the messages, api,emails on the users behalf. and the network can have just 1  pool node in the network
but then thats centralising the network where the pool can make changes and the users are then subject to that change.

however by having many nodes and many pools. ensures that changes do not occur as easily and the nodes and pools become accountable to eachother whereby changes can only occur due to mutual consent(consensus) or risk having the blocks rejected if they do not meet the nodes rules.



i know you are going to rebut that there could be a altcoin that is just the pools node running things. and then having many offchain communication methods like API to the websites and lite clients and email addresses.

but now users are completely reliant on one entity setting the rules for itself. which.. just makes it corruptible and nothing more than FIAT. but without the regulations.

..
bitcoin doesnt need regulators because the diversity of the network self-regulates. thats the beauty of it.

and to be ontopic.
if all nodes were running core. and all pools were running core. then there might aswell just be 1 pool node and a huge bunch of API calls to all the services(from a rule changing prospective).
because the only benefit of distributing the chain is not about protecting the rules, as such. because core can change the rules.

but purely about not having a physical location attack to take them offline.
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 500
Bitcoin is a great gift of technology, it was created for a great purpose and exists as a necessity. We, the people here love it. I have quite a few views about blockstream. Perhaps it is a special act or a motivational action. We see a lot of options to develop, speed up transaction processing, so, this idea is only a problem with the time, we believe it will happen. Will definitely happen
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
I will agree that the governance decision should be made more transparent but both miners and development team are guilty of this

we need to return to the mindset that we do not need a governance of DEVS

nodes are the boss.
pools are the secretary
devs are the workers

Nope.  Nodes don't mean anything. The interaction between cryptographic proof of work on one hand, and users spending money in the market, is the boss.   Nodes are means of communication between miners and users.  They could do it by e-mail if really needed.  A network of other-minded nodes doesn't matter.  As a user (that is, as someone wanting to spend value on bitcoin, or transfer bitcoin for value), you only need to have the block chain that your counter party is also agreeing upon using.  You don't need a network of other nodes for that.  You only need your wallet, the counterparty needs his wallet, and both of you needs access to the common block chain that you've both agreed upon using, and which is produced by the miners sticking to the protocol you want.

Whether there are 4000 other nodes, preferring another block chain, or whether there are 100 000 such nodes, doesn't matter for you to have access to your preferred block chain, and for your counter party to have access to its block chain with a wallet.  Oh, yes, and you have to be able to send your transaction to a miner to include it in the block chain, because that's what your counter party is waiting for.

In this essential scheme of a crypto currency, you don't need "most of the other nodes".  So their preferences don't matter.

What matters is the miners making block chains, and the users spending value on coins when transacting, and a means of communication for the miners to give their block chain to the user, and a way for the user to give their transaction to the miners.  By e-mail if necessary Smiley

Proof.  Suppose you adhere to bitcoin as it is now and so do I.  Suppose that on one hand, there are miners still working on bitcoin as it is now, and that you and I adhere to it, too.  Now, suppose that 95% of the nodes are "against" it, and implement, say, segwit, but you, I, and those miners don't like that, and continue the old chain.

Suppose that I cannot get a connection to the miners.  But suppose that I make my transaction with my wallet on my off-line computer, and I send that transaction to a miner by e-mail.   Suppose that 10 hours later, I download by FTP, 60 blocks that follow up on the last block I have on my off-line PC, and that my transaction had 59 confirmations in that piece of chain.  I tell you to download that too.  You now have my transaction ; you are pretty sure that the miner has been mining "for real".  You check it with your node software that all blocks are valid.

You have accepted my payment. 

We didn't need the node network.  Whatever most nodes do, whatever they censor, whatever they do, you and I don't need it.  We only needed the miners, and the communication with the miners.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
Don't forget people:



TO ALL:
if you think that core is king. then you have already centralised yourself into making core take over what was an open network. while pointing the finger at someone else.
There are various reasons for which people may or may not think that. Running Core does not necessarily mean what you're trying to say that it does; some people are just okay with status quo.
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
I will agree that the governance decision should be made more transparent but both miners and development team are guilty of this

we need to return to the mindset that we do not need a governance of DEVS

nodes are the boss.
pools are the secretary
devs are the workers



And now put some numbers behind, how much their investments / risks really are and how much they have so say because of that ? 
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
I will agree that the governance decision should be made more transparent but both miners and development team are guilty of this

we need to return to the mindset that we do not need a governance of DEVS

nodes are the boss.
pools are the secretary
devs are the workers

people have forgotten that what node they run dictates the rules of bitcoin by majority.
instead they have sheep slept themselves into what DEVS preach is what peoples should run.
instead they have sheep slept themselves into what DEVS have bypassed should be blamed on who they bypassed it to.(core 'soft fork it to miners then blame the miners')
(never to blame a dev, but give the devs the kingdom at the same time)

TO ALL:
if you think that core is king. then you have already centralised yourself into making core take over what was an open network. while pointing the finger at someone else.

tl;dr (to long, didnt read)
if you are running core simply because you love blockstream CTO maxwell. but never actually read the code. and instead just had 'trust and admiration' then you are the problem not the solution
hero member
Activity: 2072
Merit: 529
Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
How can a privately funded entity organize themselves by hiring Core devs with the intention of driving the future rules of the network?  Doesn't this bother most of you free loving bitcoiners?

Time to organize a new group of honest core devs having no paycheck affiliation with anyone. 

Who is going to fund the new group? There is no need to have the names of organisation funding Core development public even Satoshi that gave us this beautiful gift till today remain anonymous. I think your arguement are flawed in some ways. I will agree that the governance decision should be made more transparent but both miners and development team are guilty of this
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
This will get interesting, if a big company or a bank start to target the Core developers. Will they sell out like Mike Hearn?

cough
hyperledger
cough

oh wait is that blockstream i see in hyperledgers "members" list..
https://www.hyperledger.org/about/members
hyperledger.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/hl_blockstream-300x184 dot png
hang on isnt hyperledger managed by IBM and linux partnership...

so knowing blockstream is in the hyperledger banking cartels hyperledger project..
ask yourself the question about certain core developers (maxwell, Matt corallo, rustyrussel, etc)


wait i seem to have not emphasised something, or people didnt get the hint..


hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 544
How can a privately funded entity organize themselves by hiring Core devs with the intention of driving the future rules of the network?  Doesn't this bother most of you free loving bitcoiners?

Time to organize a new group of honest core devs having no paycheck affiliation with anyone. 

If we were to organize a new group who will lead it and where will we get the funds to move and operate. It is hard to do that kind of thing and a huge amount of capital is needed to finance this kind of movement. Compared to the billionaires financing blockstream we are a bunch of ants going against an ant exterminator. The only way I guess is just to observe and wait and to earn from bitcoins as early as possible.
legendary
Activity: 3458
Merit: 1961
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
How can a privately funded entity organize themselves by hiring Core devs with the intention of driving the future rules of the network?  Doesn't this bother most of you free loving bitcoiners?

Time to organize a new group of honest core devs having no paycheck affiliation with anyone. 

Money talks and bullshit walks, so show us the money to fund this. The Developers follow the money, just look at Mike Hearn and Gavin. The Bitcoin foundation's money dried up and then they jumped onto the next available cash cow. You forget about ideals and principle, if the money on the table is good enough. ^hmmmmmm^

This will get interesting, if a big company or a bank start to target the Core developers. Will they sell out like Mike Hearn?
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