If you are new to bitcoin and don't know the risks involved then don't borrow money to invest and if you know the risks then you can borrow and invest, are you able to bear the risks that will be faced because bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies are very risky investments.
although bitcoin will promise for a long period of time that takes years whether you are ready or have other income for your loan payments, and if there is it is up to you too because in reality you will not encounter any unexpected problems that will stress you out.
So it's okay to borrow money for any investment, either way, it's better gradually or you'll just lose money you can afford to lose without running into financial problems.
And if you can't wait to buy bitcoin in bulk, you can sell something expensive (not a place to live) to invest without involving a third person, only you and the bitcoin are involved.
Topic: Borrow fiat with your Bitcoin and never sell - page 4. (Read 1173 times)
The risk is that if you don't pay the interest, your collateral will also disappear, in which case I would do it the way @Bitcoin_Arena mentioned. I will also sell some bitcoins to cover work expenses, and then I will find a way to buy back those sold bitcoins when I can afford it. The market is still there and the opportunity to own bitcoin has never gone away so there is no need to mortgage assets while we can sell them.
Not only the interest that needs to be paid but also the borrowed amount. I think it's also possible to pay for the interest first? I heard it last time, when our neighbour borrow a cash but I heard they pay the interest first. Maybe that can work better so that the next time you pay it will now look smaller and you are motivated to pay it on time.The only way that your collateral could disappear is when you fail to pay the loan or also called as default. If you bought your bitcoins on a price which is lower than your selling price then its fine to sell it and get some profits but we can always sell whenever there is a good pump. That way we will never run out of cash and there is no need to borrow money anymore.
I don't see a difference when it comes to paying interest before or after, as paying interest first means your initial loan amount will be less and that will make it difficult for you because you don't have enough money to take care of your business.
I don't welcome mortgage loans, especially with volatile assets like bitcoin. We invest bitcoin to serve life not we serve bitcoin so selling some I won't take too seriously.
This is viable if you have other source of income that can support to pay your debt whatever is the market's situation. But I won't do this strategy and I know how it feels hard to sell your bitcoin when you're in need.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
whatever the OP is planning here, as you have suggested, much better if the OP has other means so in case of need, he can use it and not touch his satoshis. hard to get a loan and if you are just relying on this as source of funds, more then likely you will be on tight budget and sell it at a loss. this is why it is not a smart move if you are just having your satoshis and no other source of funds to take care of your other expenses.
It seems a sound plan to execute but when he's on the actual thing, he'll surely meet those problems that he didn't anticipated when he was planning to do this.
All things are easy to think of when it's come to borrowing and buying bitcoin but these two are not that really a good combination to be done.
that you have done on due time? If not then never ever consider this option as this would really create bigger problems in the future.If you are investing with bitcoin then invest on something
which you can afford to lose and as much as possible never ever consider on taking up some loan as this would really be creating huge problem instead on making profits.
Make use of fiat on daily transactions and invest on bitcoin and hold for long term on extra money that you do have.
This is viable if you have other source of income that can support to pay your debt whatever is the market's situation. But I won't do this strategy and I know how it feels hard to sell your bitcoin when you're in need.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
whatever the OP is planning here, as you have suggested, much better if the OP has other means so in case of need, he can use it and not touch his satoshis. hard to get a loan and if you are just relying on this as source of funds, more then likely you will be on tight budget and sell it at a loss. this is why it is not a smart move if you are just having your satoshis and no other source of funds to take care of your other expenses.
It seems a sound plan to execute but when he's on the actual thing, he'll surely meet those problems that he didn't anticipated when he was planning to do this.
All things are easy to think of when it's come to borrowing and buying bitcoin but these two are not that really a good combination to be done.
I don't get you. Based on what I understood you're planning to borrow fiat once you've got enough bitcoin. Does this mean you're planning to borrow money placing bitcoin as the collateral. For borrowed money you need to pay regular interest.
Maybe this can turn to be effective, if the borrowed money is invested on something that brings you regular income.
Maybe this can turn to be effective, if the borrowed money is invested on something that brings you regular income.
The OP only means how he will make profit, and hence sharing us his ultimate strategy to make money.
BTW op you mentioned that if you sell your Bitcoins, then you need to pay tax for it. But I would say why to sell your Bitcoins at exchanges? Do P2P trade and save money from taxes.
Moreover the plan is great to listen, but risky to execute.
Nevertheless, OP if you ever successfully complete this strategy of yours, then do let us know here in this thread.
We are waiting for you to get rich.
are you crazy 
ready who will believe in your commitment, it's crazy in my opinion, as far as I know if you borrow money, you must have interest and payment due in how many months or even years, but you guarantee your btc without any clarity on the price your btc will be lost
it's better to sell as much as you need , than borrow money even though we have money in bitcoin, don't make it difficult for yourself to defend something whose certainty is not clear
ready who will believe in your commitment, it's crazy in my opinion, as far as I know if you borrow money, you must have interest and payment due in how many months or even years, but you guarantee your btc without any clarity on the price your btc will be lost
it's better to sell as much as you need , than borrow money even though we have money in bitcoin, don't make it difficult for yourself to defend something whose certainty is not clear
Also remember that once you borrow fiat, you are giving the lender opportunity to make way much money using your collateral (Bitcoin) on top of charging you very high interest rates. If anything goes wrong and you default the loan, your valuable Bitcoins are gone.
I would rather sell a small portion of my bitcoins for survival, while I keep the rest for the future.
The OP is planning for a very risky move, I mean even if he were to find a bank which allowed him to use his bitcoin as collateral for a loan, things are never that simple, we know the price of bitcoin can be very unstable so if at some point the price of his bitcoin went so low that it was barely enough to pay the debt and the interest rates then the banks will force him to sell for a bad price, he will have to pay capital gain taxes and will lose all his bitcoin, so such a move is simply too difficult to execute for the average investor in this market. I would rather sell a small portion of my bitcoins for survival, while I keep the rest for the future.
I don’t have enough Bitcoin (yet) to borrow for anything significant, but this is my ultimate plan. When I get enough Bitcoin, I would borrow no more than half its worth (in case the price drops), and then I would still have Bitcoin along with whatever property I buy with the borrowed money.
I am not sure if this works, you want to borrow Fiat money against Bitcoins. Will you over the bank bitcoins as collateral or the apartment you are buying? If the property is the collateral it might work, because I don't think the bank would accept bitcoins at the moment, the price dropped to much this year. Taking out a loan to buy a property is a good idea if you can afford it. I am assuming you are planning on living in the property yourself, or do you want to rent it out? If you live in it yourself then you need to make sure you have a steady income each months to cover the expenses and the interest payments on the loan. Another factor is that we have very high inflation right now, all the new loans will be much more expensive. And if the loan needs to be refinanced in the future you need to expect much higher payments.
This seems like a risky idea.
1.There are interest rate hikes so the fiat loans are going to get more expensive.
2.Bitcoin is highly volatile and if the Bitcoin price drops severely you will have to add more BTC to the collateral or the lender will declare your default, sell your collateral and demand more money from you to in order to cover the rest of the loan.
3.If you plan to buy real estate, there is a real estate price bubble in many counties around the world(I don't know your country). There interest rate hikes and the upcoming recession might hit the real estate market. Good luck owning a real estate with decreasing value while having to repay a loan.
1.There are interest rate hikes so the fiat loans are going to get more expensive.
2.Bitcoin is highly volatile and if the Bitcoin price drops severely you will have to add more BTC to the collateral or the lender will declare your default, sell your collateral and demand more money from you to in order to cover the rest of the loan.
3.If you plan to buy real estate, there is a real estate price bubble in many counties around the world(I don't know your country). There interest rate hikes and the upcoming recession might hit the real estate market. Good luck owning a real estate with decreasing value while having to repay a loan.
Public Service Announcement:
Where that road leads: Liquidation.
For example, from someone who started out exactly with the oh-so-clever idea that you state in OP—with lower leverage than you think to use, “in case the price drops”:
Later, after worse wreckage:
Where that road leads: Liquidation.
For example, from someone who started out exactly with the oh-so-clever idea that you state in OP—with lower leverage than you think to use, “in case the price drops”:
Now, I want to kill myself... or at least, take up alcoholism as a hobby.
(Someone, please quote me.)
https://i.imgur.com/yDYL8Uy.png
(Someone, please quote me.)
https://i.imgur.com/yDYL8Uy.png
Later, after worse wreckage:
Finding that loose change helped so much: $48.82 is now a lot of money to me.
My finances have become dollhouse-sized.
https://live.staticflickr.com/159/370515222_dfed969473.jpg
Image: A dollhouse handmade by someone’s grandfather (Dave Parker, 2007). Surely a mansion, compared to what my scaled-down finances can afford.
A few months ago, as I nurtured my growing BTC long-term savings and a zoo of alts, I was throwing around $10k and $40k chunks of stablecoins.
[...]
I am now the proud owner of 0.0495 BTC plus a handful of sats, with a liquidation price a little bit under $19.2k. If Bitcoin somehow breaks below $20k, the whole account is so small that I can hold a dollhouse yard sale of miniaturized alt-dust to raise $50; another $50 infusion would push my liquidation price down by >$1,100. Eventually, I will get around to freeing my itty-bitty dollhouse bitcoins from the encumbering debt of around $853. Meanwhile, I can hold a dollhouse tea party.
$48.82 is now a lot of money to me. Finding that loose change helped so much.
My finances have become dollhouse-sized.
https://live.staticflickr.com/159/370515222_dfed969473.jpg
Image: A dollhouse handmade by someone’s grandfather (Dave Parker, 2007). Surely a mansion, compared to what my scaled-down finances can afford.
A few months ago, as I nurtured my growing BTC long-term savings and a zoo of alts, I was throwing around $10k and $40k chunks of stablecoins.
[...]
I am now the proud owner of 0.0495 BTC plus a handful of sats, with a liquidation price a little bit under $19.2k. If Bitcoin somehow breaks below $20k, the whole account is so small that I can hold a dollhouse yard sale of miniaturized alt-dust to raise $50; another $50 infusion would push my liquidation price down by >$1,100. Eventually, I will get around to freeing my itty-bitty dollhouse bitcoins from the encumbering debt of around $853. Meanwhile, I can hold a dollhouse tea party.
$48.82 is now a lot of money to me. Finding that loose change helped so much.
This person was apparently borrowing against their Bitcoin in order to purchase more Bitcoin. This sounds like a terrible idea, because if the price of Bitcoin drops, then you’ve lost value in the equity of your original Bitcoin, and you’re paying a higher price for the new Bitcoin because you have to pay off the loan.
A few months ago, I bought on margin between $35k and $43k. Some things went wrong, with complications from other transactions; leverage wound up higher than planned, but still at what seemed a "safe" level. Then, I held through $48k because I do not want to sell any BTC, ever.
I was one of the idiots trying to increase LTH BTC by leveraging BTC to buy more BTC in the dip, then slowly repaying the margin loan from other income. (Plus doing some of that "borrow against your BTC!" stuff for other purposes; this is the succinct version.)
That's similar to what Saylor does. Why shouldn't I do it? Oh, yes, because Saylor has access to lending terms that are not insane.
Exchange margin accounts make loans on the worst possible terms: If the fuzzy-notional price of an oracle (not even the real market order-book price) dips even one microdollar below exactly $x for even one microsecond, then a robot instantly trashes your collateral. Sells down, market-dumps - with liquidation penalty.
This is not something I would recommend doing at all. However, I never want to sell my Bitcoin. I want to leave it to my children, and teach them about money and why they should buy Bitcoin.
You never sell the family gold, and you never sell the family farm. My dad sold a farm in exchange for an acre with a house; and now that farm is worth 30x what he sold it for, and his acre is maybe worth 3x after 20 years. I don’t want to make that same mistake.
I don’t have enough Bitcoin (yet) to borrow for anything significant, but this is my ultimate plan. When I get enough Bitcoin, I would borrow no more than half its worth (in case the price drops), and then I would still have Bitcoin along with whatever property I buy with the borrowed money.
This seems like a smarter move than to sell the Bitcoin for fiat money. If I sell, then I have to pay capital gains tax. When the cash is borrowed, there is no tax. Since I still have the Bitcoin, then I will gain when the price rises. If I only have fiat, the “price” will always go down because of inflation.
I hope Bitcoin will eventually replace the fiat system, but until then, the market for cash favors borrowers over savers. This seems like a win-win situation.
Does anyone else plan on doing this?
Because the cash market is more likely to have an advantage, if it is lending rather than savers, that's why they are more after that kind of thing, but actually we can also take advantage of bitcoin to get maximum profit.This seems like a smarter move than to sell the Bitcoin for fiat money. If I sell, then I have to pay capital gains tax. When the cash is borrowed, there is no tax. Since I still have the Bitcoin, then I will gain when the price rises. If I only have fiat, the “price” will always go down because of inflation.
I hope Bitcoin will eventually replace the fiat system, but until then, the market for cash favors borrowers over savers. This seems like a win-win situation.
Does anyone else plan on doing this?
For example, we can buy bitcoin at a low price, so we can trade until bitcoin goes up at a high price, especially now that market conditions have an opportunity for us to buy and make investment schemes as we want.
The most important thing is that the method we use can generate profits, whether large or small, it really depends on how prepared we are in making investments, be it capital or the long or short-term strategies that we use.
I don’t think borrowing money keeping your bitcoins as collateral is a good idea, moreover many countries do not yet consider it as a legal tender. The risks are too high. You can wait for some time and then sell the bitcoins once the price increases instead.
Public Service Announcement:
Where that road leads: Liquidation.
For example, from someone who started out exactly with the oh-so-clever idea that you state in OP—with lower leverage than you think to use, “in case the price drops”:
Later, after worse wreckage:
I don’t have enough Bitcoin (yet) to borrow for anything significant, but this is my ultimate plan. When I get enough Bitcoin, I would borrow no more than half its worth (in case the price drops), and then I would still have Bitcoin along with whatever property I buy with the borrowed money.
This seems like a smarter move than to sell the Bitcoin for fiat money. If I sell, then I have to pay capital gains tax. When the cash is borrowed, there is no tax. Since I still have the Bitcoin, then I will gain when the price rises. If I only have fiat, the “price” will always go down because of inflation.
I hope Bitcoin will eventually replace the fiat system, but until then, the market for cash favors borrowers over savers. This seems like a win-win situation.
Does anyone else plan on doing this?
This seems like a smarter move than to sell the Bitcoin for fiat money. If I sell, then I have to pay capital gains tax. When the cash is borrowed, there is no tax. Since I still have the Bitcoin, then I will gain when the price rises. If I only have fiat, the “price” will always go down because of inflation.
I hope Bitcoin will eventually replace the fiat system, but until then, the market for cash favors borrowers over savers. This seems like a win-win situation.
Does anyone else plan on doing this?
Where that road leads: Liquidation.
For example, from someone who started out exactly with the oh-so-clever idea that you state in OP—with lower leverage than you think to use, “in case the price drops”:
Now, I want to kill myself... or at least, take up alcoholism as a hobby.
(Someone, please quote me.)
(Someone, please quote me.)
Later, after worse wreckage:
Finding that loose change helped so much: $48.82 is now a lot of money to me.
My finances have become dollhouse-sized.
Image: A dollhouse handmade by someone’s grandfather (Dave Parker, 2007). Surely a mansion, compared to what my scaled-down finances can afford.
A few months ago, as I nurtured my growing BTC long-term savings and a zoo of alts, I was throwing around $10k and $40k chunks of stablecoins.
[...]
I am now the proud owner of 0.0495 BTC plus a handful of sats, with a liquidation price a little bit under $19.2k. If Bitcoin somehow breaks below $20k, the whole account is so small that I can hold a dollhouse yard sale of miniaturized alt-dust to raise $50; another $50 infusion would push my liquidation price down by >$1,100. Eventually, I will get around to freeing my itty-bitty dollhouse bitcoins from the encumbering debt of around $853. Meanwhile, I can hold a dollhouse tea party.
$48.82 is now a lot of money to me. Finding that loose change helped so much.
My finances have become dollhouse-sized.
Image: A dollhouse handmade by someone’s grandfather (Dave Parker, 2007). Surely a mansion, compared to what my scaled-down finances can afford.
A few months ago, as I nurtured my growing BTC long-term savings and a zoo of alts, I was throwing around $10k and $40k chunks of stablecoins.
[...]
I am now the proud owner of 0.0495 BTC plus a handful of sats, with a liquidation price a little bit under $19.2k. If Bitcoin somehow breaks below $20k, the whole account is so small that I can hold a dollhouse yard sale of miniaturized alt-dust to raise $50; another $50 infusion would push my liquidation price down by >$1,100. Eventually, I will get around to freeing my itty-bitty dollhouse bitcoins from the encumbering debt of around $853. Meanwhile, I can hold a dollhouse tea party.
$48.82 is now a lot of money to me. Finding that loose change helped so much.
to replace the fiat system is currently not possible, Bitcoin still has pros and cons and price fluctuations will affect the level of risk of using bitcoin. Bitcoin and fiat today still go hand in hand, complement each other and do not replace each other. Borrowing money for long-term investments is not a problem as long as there is a return for the loan. Borrow according to what you need, banks value borrowers more than savers because borrowers will provide many advantages for the bank.
As long as we feel we can repay the money we borrowed, we can borrow money from the bank and return the loan money every month. But suppose we are going to use the money to start a business. In that case, we must carefully calculate the risks because a business cannot always provide a profit so we may have difficulty paying the loan. Maybe it would be better to try with the money you have first and keep trying to make a profit so that your capital money can be big and you don't have to borrow money from the bank.if you still have personal money and can be used to trade why not. it's a better choice than having to borrow from the bank. Collecting profits little by little then the capital will be greater. But the most important of all is that trading skills must be really qualified. the average borrower of money in the bank is those who have good trading skills, so that returns will be faster and can be controlled. If you don't have skills, it's better to forget to borrow money at the bank.
This is viable if you have other source of income that can support to pay your debt whatever is the market's situation. But I won't do this strategy and I know how it feels hard to sell your bitcoin when you're in need.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
whatever the OP is planning here, much better if you have other means so in case of need, you can use it and not touch your satoshis. hard to get a loan and if you are just relying on this as source of funds, more then likely you will be on tight budget and sell it at a loss.
really have that chance for you to make big profits in the future but going all in or taking big loans and doesnt have much sufficient source of income then you would really be putting yourself in big trouble.
Always consider the risk factor and act accordingly which you do seem for it to be that will put you into advantage.
This is viable if you have other source of income that can support to pay your debt whatever is the market's situation. But I won't do this strategy and I know how it feels hard to sell your bitcoin when you're in need.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
whatever the OP is planning here, as you have suggested, much better if the OP has other means so in case of need, he can use it and not touch his satoshis. hard to get a loan and if you are just relying on this as source of funds, more then likely you will be on tight budget and sell it at a loss. this is why it is not a smart move if you are just having your satoshis and no other source of funds to take care of your other expenses.
The whole story is complicated, If I say I understand you that is like. Your story is not straight forward. Are you saying that you want to borrow Fiat with bitcoin? How? If it is like that then you are saying the opposite of the whole thing because it is the Fiat currency you would have borrowed to buy bitcoin not the other way round. By way. Bitcoin is not to replace the Fiat currency system but to use as the assistant/alternative as to the Fiat currency. The quantity of bitcoin is not enough to take over fiat currency system unless if more bitcoins are produce in the ecosystem. And also borrowing money to buy bitcoin as you are interested to do it is not advisable because bitcoin is not a stable coin. Now you borrow $300 to buy bitcoin as the rate of $20k and bitcoin ironically come down to 17k. What will you do?
As for me, I am not planning to do what you are planning to do.
As for me, I am not planning to do what you are planning to do.
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to replace the fiat system is currently not possible, Bitcoin still has pros and cons and price fluctuations will affect the level of risk of using bitcoin. Bitcoin and fiat today still go hand in hand, complement each other and do not replace each other. Borrowing money for long-term investments is not a problem as long as there is a return for the loan. Borrow according to what you need, banks value borrowers more than savers because borrowers will provide many advantages for the bank.
As long as we feel we can repay the money we borrowed, we can borrow money from the bank and return the loan money every month. But suppose we are going to use the money to start a business. In that case, we must carefully calculate the risks because a business cannot always provide a profit so we may have difficulty paying the loan. Maybe it would be better to try with the money you have first and keep trying to make a profit so that your capital money can be big and you don't have to borrow money from the bank. 
The risk is that if you don't pay the interest, your collateral will also disappear, in which case I would do it the way @Bitcoin_Arena mentioned. I will also sell some bitcoins to cover work expenses, and then I will find a way to buy back those sold bitcoins when I can afford it. The market is still there and the opportunity to own bitcoin has never gone away so there is no need to mortgage assets while we can sell them.
Not only the interest that needs to be paid but also the borrowed amount. I think it's also possible to pay for the interest first? I heard it last time, when our neighbour borrow a cash but I heard they pay the interest first. Maybe that can work better so that the next time you pay it will now look smaller and you are motivated to pay it on time.The only way that your collateral could disappear is when you fail to pay the loan or also called as default. If you bought your bitcoins on a price which is lower than your selling price then its fine to sell it and get some profits but we can always sell whenever there is a good pump. That way we will never run out of cash and there is no need to borrow money anymore.
This is viable if you have other source of income that can support to pay your debt whatever is the market's situation. But I won't do this strategy and I know how it feels hard to sell your bitcoin when you're in need.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
Yet, borrowing and using your bitcoin as collateral or you're asking for a loan so that you'll save your bitcoin is going to add your responsibility because of the interest that you'll get.
On the otherhand, it's okay to sell and have it saved on a stablecoin and wait until the price drops so you can buy again.
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