Bot trading domination: Time to panic? - page 2.

rijaljun

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Quote from: Karmakid on January 22, 2020, 07:01:07 AM

There is nothing to panic about the bots dominating the market because as long as you know how to read the candlestick chart and you know how to read the patterns and interpret them into a decision making factor then you will be all good in the field. Bots are created because they have strategy in their mind and that is what you should also do, you should have a strategy in your mind and execute it manually so you will be more skillful than them.

Knowledge isn't the only problem in this regard, but also time. You can't outrun bot speed in term of trade execution. But I agree that no need to panic cause human is smarter and wiser than bots.

Karmakid

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There is nothing to panic about the bots dominating the market because as long as you know how to read the candlestick chart and you know how to read the patterns and interpret them into a decision making factor then you will be all good in the field. Bots are created because they have strategy in their mind and that is what you should also do, you should have a strategy in your mind and execute it manually so you will be more skillful than them.

drachman

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Quote from: redsun114 on January 18, 2020, 10:08:59 AM

Unless bots provide a steady profitable income to everyone that uses it, there is no "domination" of bots, I can honestly go head to head with a bot and make money, bots are programmed to do same thing over and over again and they have patterns, humans can beat patterns every single time, you just lose when you are learning at worst but in the end you learn how they operate and try to go around those patterns and beat it, if a person plays the same exact way on chess every single time, you will eventually beat them as well.

Long story short bots are not AI right now, they can't make up their own minds, they are basically programmed by the developers to do same thing repeatedly and that is not good enough, that will not end up dominating anything until AI comes along and starts to make changes by itself.

Bots have limitations, as you say they do not really posses intelligence or the ability to adapt to the different circumstances of the market and while they will not beat an expert trader, they do not need to do it, they only need to beat the average trader and if their set of instructions are good enough I am sure they can do exactly that and generate profits for those running the bot, however I think people are exaggerating about the domination of bots since most people do not have the money, the ability or the confidence to run a bot.

redsun114

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Unless bots provide a steady profitable income to everyone that uses it, there is no "domination" of bots, I can honestly go head to head with a bot and make money, bots are programmed to do same thing over and over again and they have patterns, humans can beat patterns every single time, you just lose when you are learning at worst but in the end you learn how they operate and try to go around those patterns and beat it, if a person plays the same exact way on chess every single time, you will eventually beat them as well.

Long story short bots are not AI right now, they can't make up their own minds, they are basically programmed by the developers to do same thing repeatedly and that is not good enough, that will not end up dominating anything until AI comes along and starts to make changes by itself.

adroitful_one

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Quote from: drachman on January 16, 2020, 11:44:25 PM

Quote from: the rise on January 10, 2020, 08:43:04 AM

bot trading is useless in a downtrend and only ends with one stop loss order, you are right about that, I have not found a more sensitive setting in this condition, at least to minimize the possibility of a profit of 1%. Overall. The manual process is still better for the desired profit, because instinct is always developing in seeing the best opportunities. Bot domination will not bring big changes because it still has weaknesses that must continue to be customized.

You can obtain profits during a downtrend as well if you short the market and if that is not possible at least you can get out of the market and protect your capital, I do not know why people think that bot trading is ineffective when it is obvious some of the bigger investment firms are using bots and they have done so for decades, as long as you have a profitable strategy and the ability to code you could create a bot that could trade for you and it will do a better job than you since the bot has no doubts and it does not get tired unlike a human.

It's been my experience with all of the different bots I have played with, they all seem to buy in at the right time but hold the coin too long during downtrends. Most of them work pretty well during uptrends when the price is moving up. But for whatever reason, they just have a hard time figuring out when to sell and expect the coin to keep going up. That's not likely to happen during a down trend. I'm sure there's a couple of them out there that can handle this a little better, but I haven't found a good one for it yet.

MI6

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Quote from: drachman on January 16, 2020, 11:44:25 PM

Quote from: the rise on January 10, 2020, 08:43:04 AM

bot trading is useless in a downtrend and only ends with one stop loss order, you are right about that, I have not found a more sensitive setting in this condition, at least to minimize the possibility of a profit of 1%. Overall. The manual process is still better for the desired profit, because instinct is always developing in seeing the best opportunities. Bot domination will not bring big changes because it still has weaknesses that must continue to be customized.

You can obtain profits during a downtrend as well if you short the market and if that is not possible at least you can get out of the market and protect your capital, I do not know why people think that bot trading is ineffective when it is obvious some of the bigger investment firms are using bots and they have done so for decades, as long as you have a profitable strategy and the ability to code you could create a bot that could trade for you and it will do a better job than you since the bot has no doubts and it does not get tired unlike a human.

Bot created by their owner, like what i read somewhere bot can be profitable if it's owner set it right to it's condition. I think bot user will have their own strategy in any condition of market, like what they will do in bull trend, downtrend or maybe when market is stable. If me whenever i see bot, i think i will change to another pair in case i talk about bitcoin-altcoin trading pair because there are still a lot of altcoin to trade.

drachman

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Quote from: the rise on January 10, 2020, 08:43:04 AM

bot trading is useless in a downtrend and only ends with one stop loss order, you are right about that, I have not found a more sensitive setting in this condition, at least to minimize the possibility of a profit of 1%. Overall. The manual process is still better for the desired profit, because instinct is always developing in seeing the best opportunities. Bot domination will not bring big changes because it still has weaknesses that must continue to be customized.

You can obtain profits during a downtrend as well if you short the market and if that is not possible at least you can get out of the market and protect your capital, I do not know why people think that bot trading is ineffective when it is obvious some of the bigger investment firms are using bots and they have done so for decades, as long as you have a profitable strategy and the ability to code you could create a bot that could trade for you and it will do a better job than you since the bot has no doubts and it does not get tired unlike a human.

DevilSlayer

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Quote from: Hallmader on January 10, 2020, 05:32:07 AM

Quote from: teosanru on January 09, 2020, 11:34:52 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 09, 2020, 05:56:23 AM

Quote from: Soots on January 08, 2020, 11:15:18 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 08, 2020, 09:34:55 AM

Quote from: boris singer on January 08, 2020, 03:25:24 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 07, 2020, 11:40:29 PM

The subject of this thread is kind of absurd. It is somehow like "the market is dumping: time to panic?" I mean, why panic? Is that even an option? What now if the trading platforms are dominated by bots? Is that something new around here? That has been the reality even before. Furthermore, they are not as brilliant as a trader who does the trading manually. In fact we can manipulate trading bots more than they can manipulate us.

perhaps of concern is the effect of increasing the use of bots with more accurate algorithms. in fact the bot currently still has a weak point and cannot respond to all conditions automatically, it is still limited to tools that cannot handle strong swings, if the bot is not proven to interfere with other stock market activities that are clearly quieter than the crypto market, then there is no need to panic.

Not only are bots failing during swings, they also lack the capability to analyze. They are used according to the limits set by the owner which means that bots are doing what the owner thinks is the best move. The problem is that the market is highly unpredictable. Not even bots plus the owner can predict what happens next in the crypto market.

Bots are preprogrammed to create predictions, always rely on your specific decision. Making a good moves is dependent on how you initiate a smarter trades, when market starts to increase a potential gains. Doing it physically is much better than virtual strategies.

I have always agreed to this. Doing it manually is much better. There are those experts in the use of bots. Well, they must have found the best ways to handle a bot. And they are full time traders. They know better how everything works. As for me, however, it seems bots are too limited I cannot make the best out of them. When bots try to compete with my order, I let them be. It is a waste of time to fight it out with them.

I think instead of flexibility trading generally requires a lot of discipline which is really difficult to maintain along side human emotions which is why bots are growing. Doing manually may give you chance of changing your strategy but truth is 80% of times you lose because of not sticking to your strategy.

I would have to agree with this. I admit that in terms of sticking it out with the strategy, humans are weak. Bots are much better. Sometimes the analysis is good, the figures are already set, but when the pump finally came and the green candle is rising, the 5% target suddenly changes into 10%. And that is where many are lost.

Humans are still better than bots, I do not trust bots anyway. I only rely on my analysis and not the analysis by the bots. There are now a lot of studies saying that it is better if we will rely on ourselves than on bots. The winning rate is more high if I will follow my own thoughts and ideas. I know that many traders are prefer to trade manually than to use trading bots.

nicolas1979

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Bot created from history chart, market habit and management risk. All data regulated to decide which strategy setting that fit with trader need. Technology grow up fast and as trader we benefited with that, even I must say bot could be wrong. No need to panic, we only need to study bot function and use it for trading purposes. So far I know some people works and success with bot but of course they using hard money management to avoid lost because bot wrong calculation. Don't reject the technology, use it with wise.

the rise

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bot trading is useless in a downtrend and only ends with one stop loss order, you are right about that, I have not found a more sensitive setting in this condition, at least to minimize the possibility of a profit of 1%. Overall. The manual process is still better for the desired profit, because instinct is always developing in seeing the best opportunities. Bot domination will not bring big changes because it still has weaknesses that must continue to be customized.

AniviaBtc

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Quote from: Hallmader on January 10, 2020, 05:32:07 AM

Quote from: teosanru on January 09, 2020, 11:34:52 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 09, 2020, 05:56:23 AM

Quote from: Soots on January 08, 2020, 11:15:18 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 08, 2020, 09:34:55 AM

Quote from: boris singer on January 08, 2020, 03:25:24 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 07, 2020, 11:40:29 PM

The subject of this thread is kind of absurd. It is somehow like "the market is dumping: time to panic?" I mean, why panic? Is that even an option? What now if the trading platforms are dominated by bots? Is that something new around here? That has been the reality even before. Furthermore, they are not as brilliant as a trader who does the trading manually. In fact we can manipulate trading bots more than they can manipulate us.

perhaps of concern is the effect of increasing the use of bots with more accurate algorithms. in fact the bot currently still has a weak point and cannot respond to all conditions automatically, it is still limited to tools that cannot handle strong swings, if the bot is not proven to interfere with other stock market activities that are clearly quieter than the crypto market, then there is no need to panic.

Not only are bots failing during swings, they also lack the capability to analyze. They are used according to the limits set by the owner which means that bots are doing what the owner thinks is the best move. The problem is that the market is highly unpredictable. Not even bots plus the owner can predict what happens next in the crypto market.

Bots are preprogrammed to create predictions, always rely on your specific decision. Making a good moves is dependent on how you initiate a smarter trades, when market starts to increase a potential gains. Doing it physically is much better than virtual strategies.

I have always agreed to this. Doing it manually is much better. There are those experts in the use of bots. Well, they must have found the best ways to handle a bot. And they are full time traders. They know better how everything works. As for me, however, it seems bots are too limited I cannot make the best out of them. When bots try to compete with my order, I let them be. It is a waste of time to fight it out with them.

I think instead of flexibility trading generally requires a lot of discipline which is really difficult to maintain along side human emotions which is why bots are growing. Doing manually may give you chance of changing your strategy but truth is 80% of times you lose because of not sticking to your strategy.

I would have to agree with this. I admit that in terms of sticking it out with the strategy, humans are weak. Bots are much better. Sometimes the analysis is good, the figures are already set, but when the pump finally came and the green candle is rising, the 5% target suddenly changes into 10%. And that is where many are lost.

But humans are more complex and very flexible. He can make his own decisions that will be good for him. Bots are automated and it will just continue to so it even if it is already not good for the users. The user himself can still manipulate the market although it is not consistent. But the thing is about making good decision for the benefit of himself.

Linkkoin

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Quote from: wxxyrqa on January 09, 2020, 03:15:21 PM

Quote from: pajak666 on January 09, 2020, 01:29:30 PM

Quote from: Linkkoin on January 09, 2020, 12:08:40 PM

What about quantum computers in the prediction of the market events? There are rumours that the biggest banks already are creating departments dedicated to analyzing and predicting the market.

This is years to come and well.. computers are tools. Its's people who use tools however they like or more importantly can. When quantum computing comes to reality for trading it would be way better to be among the people who know how to use them. Don't treat it like a bad thing, we need to understand that it is simply technology changing and it is only our own problem if we refuse to use it because we don't wanna learn something different.

Each cryptocurrency user is wary of this, especially when it comes to a quantum computer and its capabilities. Based on this, the most important question about the security of cryptocurrency sounds. In addition, if we talk about the real possibilities of trading bots, then with the increase in software capabilities, which allows smart programs to replace the human mind for market analysis and choose more suitable moments for transactions, then with the gradual improvement of the technical characteristics of such programs, the use of trading bots can be global and this should not be scary, as a person begins to use High Technologies everywhere to facilitate his work.

Not actually quantum resistance of cryptography, but rather the fact, that quantum computer (we have spoken with IBM employees responsible for quantum computers and they confirmed that) have enormous potential for big data processing and forecasting effects of something over a time (they mentioned explicitly climate change, weather or effects of experiments to save costs) - therefore quantum computer-based bots in the next 20 years can potentially be very effective trading tools.
On the beginning, of course, available just to the biggest players due to the fact, that quantum computers to operate require very specific conditions and adaptations of whole buildings so far.

zeze18

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Quote from: outatime1 on January 09, 2020, 07:25:34 PM

Doesn't bot trading just react to market signals that predict market psychology?

It seems that the bots are using algorithms that look at predictable market signals like Fibonacci levels that humans will view as resistance and support levels. So basically we have the power to know what the bots will do, right?

Yeah i think bots won't do something better than human pro trader's analysis, the bots will detect market movement and taking few profits and cutlosses when the price is down, it's just luck for a bot that could gather much profits. When the market is in downtrend i'm sure any bots won't make any profits. So i think there's nothing to afraid.

Hallmader

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Quote from: teosanru on January 09, 2020, 11:34:52 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 09, 2020, 05:56:23 AM

Quote from: Soots on January 08, 2020, 11:15:18 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 08, 2020, 09:34:55 AM

Quote from: boris singer on January 08, 2020, 03:25:24 AM

Quote from: Hallmader on January 07, 2020, 11:40:29 PM

The subject of this thread is kind of absurd. It is somehow like "the market is dumping: time to panic?" I mean, why panic? Is that even an option? What now if the trading platforms are dominated by bots? Is that something new around here? That has been the reality even before. Furthermore, they are not as brilliant as a trader who does the trading manually. In fact we can manipulate trading bots more than they can manipulate us.

perhaps of concern is the effect of increasing the use of bots with more accurate algorithms. in fact the bot currently still has a weak point and cannot respond to all conditions automatically, it is still limited to tools that cannot handle strong swings, if the bot is not proven to interfere with other stock market activities that are clearly quieter than the crypto market, then there is no need to panic.

Not only are bots failing during swings, they also lack the capability to analyze. They are used according to the limits set by the owner which means that bots are doing what the owner thinks is the best move. The problem is that the market is highly unpredictable. Not even bots plus the owner can predict what happens next in the crypto market.

Bots are preprogrammed to create predictions, always rely on your specific decision. Making a good moves is dependent on how you initiate a smarter trades, when market starts to increase a potential gains. Doing it physically is much better than virtual strategies.

I have always agreed to this. Doing it manually is much better. There are those experts in the use of bots. Well, they must have found the best ways to handle a bot. And they are full time traders. They know better how everything works. As for me, however, it seems bots are too limited I cannot make the best out of them. When bots try to compete with my order, I let them be. It is a waste of time to fight it out with them.

I think instead of flexibility trading generally requires a lot of discipline which is really difficult to maintain along side human emotions which is why bots are growing. Doing manually may give you chance of changing your strategy but truth is 80% of times you lose because of not sticking to your strategy.

I would have to agree with this. I admit that in terms of sticking it out with the strategy, humans are weak. Bots are much better. Sometimes the analysis is good, the figures are already set, but when the pump finally came and the green candle is rising, the 5% target suddenly changes into 10%. And that is where many are lost.

outatime1

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Doesn't bot trading just react to market signals that predict market psychology?

It seems that the bots are using algorithms that look at predictable market signals like Fibonacci levels that humans will view as resistance and support levels. So basically we have the power to know what the bots will do, right?

nydiacaskey01

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I don't see anything wrong with using Bots and if there will be more Bots users this year. All I can see is that traders just want to trade without being mindful of their feeling or emotions. When I started using a bot, bot traded just like what I asked him to do, unlike when I trade, when I see theres a chance that profits will be higher, I dont sell and hold but after a few minutes of waiting, price dropped, there goes yous profits down the drain because of following your emotions instead of what is the original plan.

its-a-me-mario

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Bots have dominated Wall Street for years now and I wouldn't call most of Wall Street manipulated or out of control. There's still plenty of retail traders on the NYSE and other exchanges. More bots brings more competition and liquidity across the market as a whole, I'd say that's a good thing.

wxxyrqa

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Quote from: pajak666 on January 09, 2020, 01:29:30 PM

Quote from: Linkkoin on January 09, 2020, 12:08:40 PM

What about quantum computers in the prediction of the market events? There are rumours that the biggest banks already are creating departments dedicated to analyzing and predicting the market.

This is years to come and well.. computers are tools. Its's people who use tools however they like or more importantly can. When quantum computing comes to reality for trading it would be way better to be among the people who know how to use them. Don't treat it like a bad thing, we need to understand that it is simply technology changing and it is only our own problem if we refuse to use it because we don't wanna learn something different.

Each cryptocurrency user is wary of this, especially when it comes to a quantum computer and its capabilities. Based on this, the most important question about the security of cryptocurrency sounds. In addition, if we talk about the real possibilities of trading bots, then with the increase in software capabilities, which allows smart programs to replace the human mind for market analysis and choose more suitable moments for transactions, then with the gradual improvement of the technical characteristics of such programs, the use of trading bots can be global and this should not be scary, as a person begins to use High Technologies everywhere to facilitate his work.

pajak666

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Quote from: Linkkoin on January 09, 2020, 12:08:40 PM

What about quantum computers in the prediction of the market events? There are rumours that the biggest banks already are creating departments dedicated to analyzing and predicting the market.

This is years to come and well.. computers are tools. Its's people who use tools however they like or more importantly can. When quantum computing comes to reality for trading it would be way better to be among the people who know how to use them. Don't treat it like a bad thing, we need to understand that it is simply technology changing and it is only our own problem if we refuse to use it because we don't wanna learn something different.

senne

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You can't escape it. Automating trading through bots isn't something new. Though some exchanges are taking preventive steps and usually ban an account which excessively tries to manipulate the market by placing number of buy and sell orders. But you can't escape them entirely. In this era of technology th problem is going to intensify only. Exchanges might take some major steps but then again not all gonna do that.

Topic: Bot trading domination: Time to panic? - page 2. (Read 632 times)