Both PoW and PoS algos are scams. Here's why.

Captain-Cryptory

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 20, 2020, 06:53:52 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 08, 2020, 02:42:27 PM

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS. Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Are you aware that the main objective of any algo, either POW or POS or any other is to prevent 51% attack? And only the one-single metric could be appropriate for convicting them in "scamming" i.e. how effectively the given algo does so. Everything else is a pure rubbish.

Only thing that prevents 51% attack on Bitcoin is the cots of performing that attack

Lol, PoW/PoS have been implemented into mining protocols for that very reason i.e. to make 51% attack economically unprofitable at the current state of the network. To be precised their overall mission is to prevent the net from Sybil attack, 51% is a particular case,only.

Inkdull

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Activity: 238

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Believe in what you want to belief in, POS and POW Algorithm is why many coins are still alive today either through profitable mining or staking, the reason why we even make transactions easily is through these Algorithms, I don't understand anything other than this.

Kemarit

legendary

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LOL, I saw the OP's post questioning Bitcoin and it's decentralization, miners etc. Now it's PoW and PoS algos are scam? Is fiat also a scam?

If that is your argument, then we might as well say that everything is really scam and everyone should move out because we are deemed to loss money here. I think there is more narrative from the OP spreading this FUD around this community.

FreeStreamer

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 15

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 08, 2020, 02:42:27 PM

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS. Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Are you aware that the main objective of any algo, either POW or POS or any other is to prevent 51% attack? And only the one-single metric could be appropriate for convicting them in "scamming" i.e. how effectively the given algo does so. Everything else is a pure rubbish.

The algo does not prevent that attack. That algo is the only algo which is susceptible to the 51% attack. Only thing that prevents 51% attack on Bitcoin is the cots of performing that attack, because Bitcoin is so large, but because Bitcoin doesn't really scale, it's really slow and expensive.

Thomas-s

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Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network

Quote from: ATSgrowth on July 19, 2020, 04:35:40 PM

Proof of Work algorithm is currently the most safest consensus what we have. I do not understand the hype around Proof of Stake - have you thought about the problem of PoS consensus? When you find out a bug in a protocol, you can easily destroy the whole history of the blockchain in few seconds!

but POW has already been hacked by 51% attack many times and we all have seen how the double spending of coins happened. there is nothing really safety in the cryptocurrency. hackers will always find problem areas in the blockchain and algorithms

wozzek23

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In my eyes, OP is just counting posts and nothing more. I'm not seeing they are providing any valid points to support what is they are trying to argue here.

Bitcoin mining must be billion dollars worth of industry right now hence when if it is a scam, I am sure there cannot be these many people will be working on that. So, when something is existing with us for years and it is serving all its purposes then it is completely meaningless to call it a scam.

POW and POS cannot be scam for any reasons. If they are scam then people definitely will not risk their hard earned money on it. They are just algorithm so the chances for being scam is very very less as far as I am concerned.

FreeStreamer

member

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Merit: 15

Quote from: pixie85 on July 19, 2020, 03:42:24 PM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 19, 2020, 01:48:48 PM

It's a very valid argument to say that all people just talk about their gains and never about losses and they bullshit about the gains. So I don't believe people when they say that. Sure you might have been among those who who bough low and sold high, but my point is that, that is not a a real user case. It's no real utility to simply have virtual object that fluctuates in value. The Proof-of-Work algorithm just validates the transactions in peer-to-peer network, without the need of a 3rd party middle man as validator. This is indeed a great innovation, but it's just a system.

I'm completely open about my investments and bought at many different levels in 2016 and 2017, most of it below 3000 dollars but some at 5 and 6 as well. I still have these coins so no selling for profit on my part. Holding something that makes me feel safe while being profitable is more than enough for me. I'm not going to chase profit around trading for a few dollars of profit every day. It's a waste of time.

You think those who bought early are not to be believed because those are the lucky few. Did I get it right? Bitcoin remained below 6000 dollars for more than 8 years. That's enough time to be among the lucky few. You underestimate hiw many people on this forum still hold Bitcoins bought for less tha 1000 USD. I can tell you it's a lot.

PayPal also only works as a middleman. A transaction validator. It does something a 1 person acting as escrow could do and its shares are worth 150 EUR a piece. Does it create any value?

Quote

The system itself does not create any value. It's just a tool.

A computer program or a domain also don't create value but have value.

Ok that's very nice. Congratulations champ. I'm just saying that 2017 wont happen again. It's impossible with so many other projects surging right now.

FreeStreamer

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 15

Quote from: ATSgrowth on July 19, 2020, 04:35:40 PM

Proof of Work algorithm is currently the most safest consensus what we have. I do not understand the hype around Proof of Stake - have you thought about the problem of PoS consensus? When you find out a bug in a protocol, you can easily destroy the whole history of the blockchain in few seconds!

Proof-of-Work is what makes a system independent and P2P unless it's hijacked and rigged like Bitcoin is. Bitcoin was the first and it had these design flaws such as increasing blocksize and transparent ledger that caused the scattered miners and devs to merger into a corporation. For example Monero has a dynamic blocksize and stealth ledger, and anonymous devs, which prevents the hijacking of the network.

ATSgrowth

full member

Activity: 924

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homt.net

Proof of Work algorithm is currently the most safest consensus what we have. I do not understand the hype around Proof of Stake - have you thought about the problem of PoS consensus? When you find out a bug in a protocol, you can easily destroy the whole history of the blockchain in few seconds!

pixie85

hero member

Activity: 2184

Merit: 531

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 19, 2020, 01:48:48 PM

It's a very valid argument to say that all people just talk about their gains and never about losses and they bullshit about the gains. So I don't believe people when they say that. Sure you might have been among those who who bough low and sold high, but my point is that, that is not a a real user case. It's no real utility to simply have virtual object that fluctuates in value. The Proof-of-Work algorithm just validates the transactions in peer-to-peer network, without the need of a 3rd party middle man as validator. This is indeed a great innovation, but it's just a system.

I'm completely open about my investments and bought at many different levels in 2016 and 2017, most of it below 3000 dollars but some at 5 and 6 as well. I still have these coins so no selling for profit on my part. Holding something that makes me feel safe while being profitable is more than enough for me. I'm not going to chase profit around trading for a few dollars of profit every day. It's a waste of time.

You think those who bought early are not to be believed because those are the lucky few. Did I get it right? Bitcoin remained below 6000 dollars for more than 8 years. That's enough time to be among the lucky few. You underestimate hiw many people on this forum still hold Bitcoins bought for less tha 1000 USD. I can tell you it's a lot.

PayPal also only works as a middleman. A transaction validator. It does something a 1 person acting as escrow could do and its shares are worth 150 EUR a piece. Does it create any value?

Quote

The system itself does not create any value. It's just a tool.

A computer program or a domain also don't create value but have value.

FreeStreamer

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 15

Quote from: pixie85 on July 18, 2020, 04:40:29 PM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 14, 2020, 03:40:08 PM

Yeah I know everyone has just made a lot of money in Las Vegas too, an nobody has lost any money. I know.

In the absence of valid arguments all you're left with is sarcasm, I know.

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 17, 2020, 03:03:53 PM

Bitcoin is a new innovation. It's a secure P2P electronic payment system, but the network itself does not create any value. That's my point.

How an Internet network would create value, I'm curious. Is adding a few lines of code in the database creating value or not?

It's a very valid argument to say that all people just talk about their gains and never about losses and they bullshit about the gains. So I don't believe people when they say that. Sure you might have been among those who who bough low and sold high, but my point is that, that is not a a real user case. It's no real utility to simply have virtual object that fluctuates in value. The Proof-of-Work algorithm just validates the transactions in peer-to-peer network, without the need of a 3rd party middle man as validator. This is indeed a great innovation, but it's just a system. The system itself does not create any value. It's just a tool.

pixie85

hero member

Activity: 2184

Merit: 531

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 14, 2020, 03:40:08 PM

Yeah I know everyone has just made a lot of money in Las Vegas too, an nobody has lost any money. I know.

In the absence of valid arguments all you're left with is sarcasm, I know.

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 17, 2020, 03:03:53 PM

Bitcoin is a new innovation. It's a secure P2P electronic payment system, but the network itself does not create any value. That's my point.

How an Internet network would create value, I'm curious. Is adding a few lines of code in the database creating value or not?

FreeStreamer

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 15

Quote from: miklesm on July 17, 2020, 08:09:51 AM

In both of these ways of proof you need something (physycal or crypto resources) to participate in the Network build which is the way to protect blockchain from malicious users and make it unprofitable to try to scam the Network.

Bitcoin is a new innovation. It's a secure P2P electronic payment system, but the network itself does not create any value. That's my point.

miklesm

member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 10

In both of these ways of proof you need something (physycal or crypto resources) to participate in the Network build which is the way to protect blockchain from malicious users and make it unprofitable to try to scam the Network.

FreeStreamer

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 15

Quote from: Mister.Satan on July 16, 2020, 11:40:29 AM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 16, 2020, 07:14:53 AM

Quote from: justdimin on July 15, 2020, 09:55:34 AM

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Food, energy and minerals are not backed with money. They are commodities with self value that can be bartered any time without money.

So to you, anything that does have a self value is not a scam while anything that backed under fiat and nothing else is a scam? That's very simple thinking, akin to black and white and nothing else. Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

You obviously think there is some magic money machine that can create money from nothing, right? There is not. Any such machine would be just forgery.

FreeStreamer

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 15

Quote from: Mister.Satan on July 16, 2020, 11:40:29 AM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 16, 2020, 07:14:53 AM

Quote from: justdimin on July 15, 2020, 09:55:34 AM

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Food, energy and minerals are not backed with money. They are commodities with self value that can be bartered any time without money.

So to you, anything that does have a self value is not a scam while anything that backed under fiat and nothing else is a scam? That's very simple thinking, akin to black and white and nothing else. Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

Not only to me. It's an economic fact. It is very simple. It's not an investment if it does not have self value. It's a liability.

Mister.Satan

member

Activity: 163

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 16, 2020, 07:14:53 AM

Quote from: justdimin on July 15, 2020, 09:55:34 AM

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Food, energy and minerals are not backed with money. They are commodities with self value that can be bartered any time without money.

So to you, anything that does have a self value is not a scam while anything that backed under fiat and nothing else is a scam? That's very simple thinking, akin to black and white and nothing else. Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

H1N1

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Activity: 812

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 08, 2020, 02:42:27 PM

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS. Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

If it is backed by fiat money, then why you say it is scam ? If it is backed by the fiat, then it is real isn't it ?
I think crypto is not a money from thin air, it is from people's money as well. Peoples buy the coin with their money, use the coin for things, creating demands and the coin will be more valuable, other peoples mining it with their miner (which they bought with their money as well).
We want to move from using fiat money to crypto by convert our fiat money to cryptocurrency, either it is from buying or mining.

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: justdimin on July 15, 2020, 09:55:34 AM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 08, 2020, 02:42:27 PM

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS.

Are you sure on what you're talking about? Because, I'm not getting what exactly you are trying to emphasize here; probably you have not finished the as it seems only half of what you have thought has been presented here and the rest are yet to be added, it seems so. Am I right?

First you must learn what a scam and what is a system and any system does not need to be profitable but it must serve why it was designed/created and this is what those mining algorithms are doing. Regardless of profitable or not, people are mining cryptos for their own reasons and they are managing somehow to run it till date. (One common assumption is, they are saving mining rewards and selling for greater profits after some period of holding).

Quote

Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Food, energy and minerals are not backed with money. They are commodities with self value that can be bartered any time without money.

justdimin

hero member

Activity: 3220

Merit: 678

www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 08, 2020, 02:42:27 PM

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS.

Are you sure on what you're talking about? Because, I'm not getting what exactly you are trying to emphasize here; probably you have not finished the as it seems only half of what you have thought has been presented here and the rest are yet to be added, it seems so. Am I right?

First you must learn what a scam and what is a system and any system does not need to be profitable but it must serve why it was designed/created and this is what those mining algorithms are doing. Regardless of profitable or not, people are mining cryptos for their own reasons and they are managing somehow to run it till date. (One common assumption is, they are saving mining rewards and selling for greater profits after some period of holding).

Quote

Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Topic: Both PoW and PoS algos are scams. Here's why. (Read 495 times)