[Boxing]: Oscar Valdez vs Emmanuel Navarette - Aug 12 - page 3.

Baofeng

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1655

As per the voting,

Seems that the members are looking for a upset win here? Although the votes are just a small sample size, it was 7 votes on who will win this fight. And surprisingly, the odds maker is putting Valdez as the favorite, but here in our community, Navarette getting the most votes, by KO and by Decision.

cryptomaniac_xxx

hero member

Activity: 1344

Merit: 540

Quote from: Casdinyard on August 05, 2023, 06:24:24 PM

Valdez has proven time and time again why he is a capable fighter, some even say he's the next to step into Pacquiao's path which is a lot for a boxer that hasn't had anything going for him until recently. Not discrediting Navarette here and I know he's going to give us a good fight but I believe that Oscar could win this by a massive upset and a massive knock-out. He's been methodical in his every play and he's able to get back up his feet and defeat his opponent without question numerous times even before that massive victory prior to this fight. Navarette has done the same but I just felt like Oscar's got this in the bag despite the odds not being in his favor. We'll just have to see how this fight goes when it all resolves I guess. But oscar's getting this W no doubt.

I'm so sorry but Valdez and Pacquiao should not be in the same sentence. Their path are not even comparable.

So going back to the fight, both have their strengths, I love the style of Navarette of going all out in an offensive manner and he has his stamina build in this kind of fights. On Valdez side, he is more of a technical but can switch to a brawler if he wanted to, just like in the Berchelt fight.

Valdez can adjust for sure, but I think Navarette will stay on his style of brawler and be on the offense every time.

Dave1

hero member

Activity: 1344

Merit: 538

Quote from: Casdinyard on August 05, 2023, 06:24:24 PM

Valdez has proven time and time again why he is a capable fighter, some even say he's the next to step into Pacquiao's path which is a lot for a boxer that hasn't had anything going for him until recently.

If there is a boxer than can follow Manny Pacquiao, I think it could be Inoue. And even Manny has given Inoue his blessings as they met in Japan.

Quote from: Casdinyard on August 05, 2023, 06:24:24 PM

Not discrediting Navarette here and I know he's going to give us a good fight but I believe that Oscar could win this by a massive upset and a massive knock-out. He's been methodical in his every play and he's able to get back up his feet and defeat his opponent without question numerous times even before that massive victory prior to this fight. Navarette has done the same but I just felt like Oscar's got this in the bag despite the odds not being in his favor. We'll just have to see how this fight goes when it all resolves I guess. But oscar's getting this W no doubt.

If Valdez win, then it's not called a upset mate, he is the favorite in this fight. But the odds makers are putting this fight to go distance. So meaning there might be knockdown/s along the way, but there will be no knockout. But I'm not discounting that perhaps Oscar will used his left hook as his weapons to knockout Navarette as Emmanuel doesn't believed in defense and will just try to bully his opponents.

Casdinyard

hero member

Activity: 2100

Merit: 887

Leading Crypto Sports Betting and Casino Platform

Valdez has proven time and time again why he is a capable fighter, some even say he's the next to step into Pacquiao's path which is a lot for a boxer that hasn't had anything going for him until recently. Not discrediting Navarette here and I know he's going to give us a good fight but I believe that Oscar could win this by a massive upset and a massive knock-out. He's been methodical in his every play and he's able to get back up his feet and defeat his opponent without question numerous times even before that massive victory prior to this fight. Navarette has done the same but I just felt like Oscar's got this in the bag despite the odds not being in his favor. We'll just have to see how this fight goes when it all resolves I guess. But oscar's getting this W no doubt.

Baofeng

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1655

^ The latest odds for Valdez is indeed 1.58.

Perhaps what was shown was the early released of the odds and that's why it seems that Valdez is a big favorite. Nevertheless Navarette backers is trying to close the gap weeks before the fight.

And it's good that we have a lot options now, like the exact rounds. But I would wait for the round range as our chances to win is good, unless you wanted to target the huge odds for exact rounds, but it's going to be very difficult to predict.

Kemarit

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1353

Quote from: bisdak40 on August 05, 2023, 07:36:08 AM

Quote from: coin-investor on August 05, 2023, 06:08:13 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on August 05, 2023, 04:59:15 AM

I agree, Valdez looks amateur against Stevenson, and it just shows how good Shakur is at his level. But the did win a comeback again and won in the judges card. And so he is given a shot again his fellow Mexican Navarette who looks bad on the other hand and almost got knockout by an unknown fighter.

But I guess he has a big heart and believe in himself that he can make a bounce back after tasting the canvass in that fight. And won by a technical knockout over Liam in round 9. And for me this is a fight of the year candidate.

I'm sure it is, it's been a long time since we've seen a rivalry like that of Morales and Barrera, I hope the hype lived up to that they have the same style both aggressive and love to move forward, they don't care being hit as long as they can hit, but compared to Barrera - Morales who hate each other in their rivalry both fighters has respect to each other, let's see in their weigh in and the actual fight, if the fight is close and the two fighters do their things we can see a rematch.

This could be an explosive fight and either boxer would kiss the canvass if hit with those heavy bombs. This is one of the fights that is hard to predict who will win but I'm more inclined to back Oscar Valdez as I think he has more power of the two but we might see an upset here too because Navarrete has more experience than Valdez.

Bookies predicts that this fight would go the distance but i think otherwise.

Initially I thought that Valdez is like 1.5x favorite, but it seems that the odds has moved a lot as we get closer to the fight. I haven't put my bet yet, but if this fight favors Oscar as per bookies then most likely it will be the case that he will win.

And for those bettors, this odd is still big, as they are willing to like bet in the thousands of dollars, so still it's going to be a big win for them.

But for us, this is not the case, and so it's better to look for options here.

Ziskinberg

hero member

Activity: 2926

Merit: 636

For campaign management look for Little Mouse!

Quote from: btc_angela on August 05, 2023, 04:59:15 AM

Quote from: Ziskinberg on August 03, 2023, 08:54:48 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on August 03, 2023, 07:29:33 AM

Initially though, I thought that Navarette will give Valdez a good fight, specially as a champion and he is the underdog. But looking at his previous fight against Liam Wilson, I think Oscar is much smarter and technically sound as Liam is. So I wouldn't be surprised if this fight will not go to the distance and someone will have to taste the canvass here.

Valdez will make sure he wins this fight as he came from an embarrassing loss. He needs to rise in prominence again as an exciting boxer, and that means he has to win by KO. Oscar Valdez looked really bad against Shakur Stevenson as he was dominated in most of the rounds, if not the entire fight. Now, he has a chance to redeem himself, and he will not waste this opportunity.

Just like everyone is thinking, perhaps Oscar Valdez could win via KO.

I agree, Valdez looks amateur against Stevenson, and it just shows how good Shakur is at his level. But the did win a comeback again and won in the judges card. And so he is given a shot again his fellow Mexican Navarette who looks bad on the other hand and almost got knockout by an unknown fighter.

But I guess he has a big heart and believe in himself that he can make a bounce back after tasting the canvass in that fight. And won by a technical knockout over Liam in round 9. And for me this is a fight of the year candidate.

This fight is for Valdez to redeem himself. Although he won his previous fight, I guess Emanuel Navarrete was way better compared to the boxer he defeated in his last match, who only had 16 wins and 4 losses prior to the fight. On the other hand, Emanuel Navarrete has 37 wins, with 31 of them coming from KO, and he suffered his only loss back in 2012.

Quote from: bisdak40 on August 05, 2023, 07:36:08 AM

This could be an explosive fight and either boxer would kiss the canvass if hit with those heavy bombs. This is one of the fights that is hard to predict who will win but I'm more inclined to back Oscar Valdez as I think he has more power of the two but we might see an upset here too because Navarrete has more experience than Valdez.

Bookies predicts that this fight would go the distance but i think otherwise.

I think I'll go against the bookies this time, or the public, to be exact. Both boxers have a high KO rate, so I don't understand why bookies were thinking it will go the distance. If their reason is that both boxers have not experienced a KO yet, then how can we explain the Spence vs. Crawford fight where both boxers were even undefeated before the fight?

bisdak40

hero member

Activity: 2072

Merit: 542

Quote from: coin-investor on August 05, 2023, 06:08:13 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on August 05, 2023, 04:59:15 AM

I agree, Valdez looks amateur against Stevenson, and it just shows how good Shakur is at his level. But the did win a comeback again and won in the judges card. And so he is given a shot again his fellow Mexican Navarette who looks bad on the other hand and almost got knockout by an unknown fighter.

But I guess he has a big heart and believe in himself that he can make a bounce back after tasting the canvass in that fight. And won by a technical knockout over Liam in round 9. And for me this is a fight of the year candidate.

I'm sure it is, it's been a long time since we've seen a rivalry like that of Morales and Barrera, I hope the hype lived up to that they have the same style both aggressive and love to move forward, they don't care being hit as long as they can hit, but compared to Barrera - Morales who hate each other in their rivalry both fighters has respect to each other, let's see in their weigh in and the actual fight, if the fight is close and the two fighters do their things we can see a rematch.

This could be an explosive fight and either boxer would kiss the canvass if hit with those heavy bombs. This is one of the fights that is hard to predict who will win but I'm more inclined to back Oscar Valdez as I think he has more power of the two but we might see an upset here too because Navarrete has more experience than Valdez.

Bookies predicts that this fight would go the distance but i think otherwise.

coin-investor

hero member

Activity: 2884

Merit: 581

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: btc_angela on August 05, 2023, 04:59:15 AM

I agree, Valdez looks amateur against Stevenson, and it just shows how good Shakur is at his level. But the did win a comeback again and won in the judges card. And so he is given a shot again his fellow Mexican Navarette who looks bad on the other hand and almost got knockout by an unknown fighter.

But I guess he has a big heart and believe in himself that he can make a bounce back after tasting the canvass in that fight. And won by a technical knockout over Liam in round 9. And for me this is a fight of the year candidate.

I'm sure it is, it's been a long time since we've seen a rivalry like that of Morales and Barrera, I hope the hype lived up to that they have the same style both aggressive and love to move forward, they don't care being hit as long as they can hit, but compared to Barrera - Morales who hate each other in their rivalry both fighters has respect to each other, let's see in their weigh in and the actual fight, if the fight is close and the two fighters do their things we can see a rematch.

btc_angela

hero member

Activity: 2632

Merit: 546

Quote from: Ziskinberg on August 03, 2023, 08:54:48 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on August 03, 2023, 07:29:33 AM

Initially though, I thought that Navarette will give Valdez a good fight, specially as a champion and he is the underdog. But looking at his previous fight against Liam Wilson, I think Oscar is much smarter and technically sound as Liam is. So I wouldn't be surprised if this fight will not go to the distance and someone will have to taste the canvass here.

Valdez will make sure he wins this fight as he came from an embarrassing loss. He needs to rise in prominence again as an exciting boxer, and that means he has to win by KO. Oscar Valdez looked really bad against Shakur Stevenson as he was dominated in most of the rounds, if not the entire fight. Now, he has a chance to redeem himself, and he will not waste this opportunity.

Just like everyone is thinking, perhaps Oscar Valdez could win via KO.

I agree, Valdez looks amateur against Stevenson, and it just shows how good Shakur is at his level. But the did win a comeback again and won in the judges card. And so he is given a shot again his fellow Mexican Navarette who looks bad on the other hand and almost got knockout by an unknown fighter.

But I guess he has a big heart and believe in himself that he can make a bounce back after tasting the canvass in that fight. And won by a technical knockout over Liam in round 9. And for me this is a fight of the year candidate.

Yaunfitda

hero member

Activity: 2870

Merit: 594

Quote from: Westinhome on August 04, 2023, 10:14:07 AM

Quote from: Ziskinberg on August 03, 2023, 08:54:48 AM

Valdez will make sure he wins this fight as he came from an embarrassing loss. He needs to rise in prominence again as an exciting boxer, and that means he has to win by KO. Oscar Valdez looked really bad against Shakur Stevenson as he was dominated in most of the rounds, if not the entire fight. Now, he has a chance to redeem himself, and he will not waste this opportunity.

Just like everyone is thinking, perhaps Oscar Valdez could win via KO.

Valdez is the most popular answer for this game,because he need to prove himself in the game.He had many loss in the recent days,

Just to correct you, his recent lost is to Shakur Stevenson only. After that he bounce back with a win against a tough Adam Lopez and win in a decision.

Quote from: Westinhome on August 04, 2023, 10:14:07 AM

So he need a chance to prove himself.But he had only one chance of winning this match and show his power in the boxing ring.He probably preferred to win by knockout to avoid of points pressure at the end.So most of the boxing fans are waiting for the knockout match from Oscar Valdez,because Valdez had the good punching power compared to the Emmanuel Navarette.Emmanuel had some good win in the recent days,but don’t know how he handle big player like Valdez.

As compare to Navarette who almost lost to Liam, he goes down in the fight and we think that there will be an upset. But he comes back and won the fight. But this time, he is a underdog against Oscar Valdez. So as others says, when the fight is between 2 Mexicans, it's bound to be a great and entertaining fight and there could be knockout or knockouts a long the way.

Bananington

sr. member

Activity: 1428

Merit: 344

Quote from: Baofeng on July 05, 2023, 01:03:13 PM

I haven't seen a discussion about this fight, so here it goes. This are two Mexican warriors so I expect that this is a great war.

The last fight of Navarette, we thought that we will see a upset, he was knock down by Liam Wilson. But he evetually got off the canvass and win the war and won the belt. We all know that Shakur beat the hell of out of Oscar Valdez, but he did make a comeback. So he is a hunt for another belt.

Valdez is a slight advantage as per sport bookies at 1.5x, Navaratte, at 2.2x. For sure we will be treated by another great fight, and maybe it could go down as a version of Morales vs Barrera

https://www.boxingscene.com/emanuel-navarrete-vs-oscar-valdez-official-august-12-glendale-arizona--175195

It's about time we experience some good all-mexican war between these champions Oscar Valdez and Emmanuel Navarrete.
Navarrete got a scare from Liam in their last fight and he didn't expect the knocking he got and am sure his eyes has opened so much so that we see him training harder than before for the oncoming fixture.
Everyone also wants to win and that's why Valdez is going to rain fury on him if he's not the least on point.

Again, it is a fight between a Three-division world champion Emanuel “Vaquero” Navarrete and a Two-division world champion Oscar Valdez, with the contested WBO junior lightweight world title on the line.
Am going to put my bets on Emmanuel, although I expect his ass to be whopper until he can either win by K.O or judges decision.

Jawhead999

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1179

Quote from: Westinhome on August 04, 2023, 10:14:07 AM

Valdez is the most popular answer for this game,because he need to prove himself in the game.He had many loss in the recent days,So he need a chance to prove himself.But he had only one chance of winning this match and show his power in the boxing ring.He probably preferred to win by knockout to avoid of points pressure at the end.So most of the boxing fans are waiting for the knockout match from Oscar Valdez,because Valdez had the good punching power compared to the Emmanuel Navarette.Emmanuel had some good win in the recent days,but don’t know how he handle big player like Valdez.

Of course Valdez has a name, but Navarette looks better compared to Valdez. Navarette mostly win via KO even he fought with strong opponents. Both of Valdez and Navarette are Mexican, usually Mexican boxers have a tough chin, this would be interesting and might goes to distance.

I'm rooting for Navarette here, I think Valdez isn't in his prime anymore.

Ziskinberg

hero member

Activity: 2926

Merit: 636

For campaign management look for Little Mouse!

Quote from: Kemarit on August 03, 2023, 09:34:29 AM

Quote from: Ziskinberg on August 03, 2023, 08:54:48 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on August 03, 2023, 07:29:33 AM

Initially though, I thought that Navarette will give Valdez a good fight, specially as a champion and he is the underdog. But looking at his previous fight against Liam Wilson, I think Oscar is much smarter and technically sound as Liam is. So I wouldn't be surprised if this fight will not go to the distance and someone will have to taste the canvass here.

Valdez will make sure he wins this fight as he came from an embarrassing loss. He needs to rise in prominence again as an exciting boxer, and that means he has to win by KO. Oscar Valdez looked really bad against Shakur Stevenson as he was dominated in most of the rounds, if not the entire fight. Now, he has a chance to redeem himself, and he will not waste this opportunity.

It's a very difficult match up for him against a defensive Shakur, for me it's like Floyd vs Marquez minus the knock down. It was a total beating. However, I think Valdez really learn his lessons on that fight and that's why he is the favorite here as sports bookies knows that he can bounce back and Navarette doesn't look good in his last outing.

Well, obviously, he is the favorite as he has the better record. Shakur is undefeated and was a heavy favorite during their fight. As expected, Shakur really knows how to play the game right, using his technical skills in boxing. He may be considered boring, but he is winning, and that's what matters to him. If, in case, a rematch happens in the future, I'm sure the outcome will not change, and it will still be an easy win for Shakur.

Now, going back to this fight, by looking at every factor, Valdez has the edge, so he better have a convincing win.

Quote from: Kemarit on August 03, 2023, 09:34:29 AM

Quote from: Ziskinberg on August 03, 2023, 08:54:48 AM

Just like everyone is thinking, perhaps Oscar Valdez could win via KO.

Or the fight not going to the distance here. It's going to be as good as how it is hype, nevertheless, Valdez could win here.

It would be nice if that would happen, as even though it's short, if the outcome is a KO, it's always satisfying to watch, especially if it's not an upset win.

Westinhome

hero member

Activity: 1582

Merit: 514

Quote from: Ziskinberg on August 03, 2023, 08:54:48 AM

Valdez will make sure he wins this fight as he came from an embarrassing loss. He needs to rise in prominence again as an exciting boxer, and that means he has to win by KO. Oscar Valdez looked really bad against Shakur Stevenson as he was dominated in most of the rounds, if not the entire fight. Now, he has a chance to redeem himself, and he will not waste this opportunity.

Just like everyone is thinking, perhaps Oscar Valdez could win via KO.

Valdez is the most popular answer for this game,because he need to prove himself in the game.He had many loss in the recent days,So he need a chance to prove himself.But he had only one chance of winning this match and show his power in the boxing ring.He probably preferred to win by knockout to avoid of points pressure at the end.So most of the boxing fans are waiting for the knockout match from Oscar Valdez,because Valdez had the good punching power compared to the Emmanuel Navarette.Emmanuel had some good win in the recent days,but don’t know how he handle big player like Valdez.

Kemarit

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1353

Quote from: Ziskinberg on August 03, 2023, 08:54:48 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on August 03, 2023, 07:29:33 AM

Initially though, I thought that Navarette will give Valdez a good fight, specially as a champion and he is the underdog. But looking at his previous fight against Liam Wilson, I think Oscar is much smarter and technically sound as Liam is. So I wouldn't be surprised if this fight will not go to the distance and someone will have to taste the canvass here.

Valdez will make sure he wins this fight as he came from an embarrassing loss. He needs to rise in prominence again as an exciting boxer, and that means he has to win by KO. Oscar Valdez looked really bad against Shakur Stevenson as he was dominated in most of the rounds, if not the entire fight. Now, he has a chance to redeem himself, and he will not waste this opportunity.

It's a very difficult match up for him against a defensive Shakur, for me it's like Floyd vs Marquez minus the knock down. It was a total beating. However, I think Valdez really learn his lessons on that fight and that's why he is the favorite here as sports bookies knows that he can bounce back and Navarette doesn't look good in his last outing.

Quote from: Ziskinberg on August 03, 2023, 08:54:48 AM

Just like everyone is thinking, perhaps Oscar Valdez could win via KO.

Or the fight not going to the distance here. It's going to be as good as how it is hype, nevertheless, Valdez could win here.

Ziskinberg

hero member

Activity: 2926

Merit: 636

For campaign management look for Little Mouse!

Quote from: btc_angela on August 03, 2023, 07:29:33 AM

Initially though, I thought that Navarette will give Valdez a good fight, specially as a champion and he is the underdog. But looking at his previous fight against Liam Wilson, I think Oscar is much smarter and technically sound as Liam is. So I wouldn't be surprised if this fight will not go to the distance and someone will have to taste the canvass here.

Valdez will make sure he wins this fight as he came from an embarrassing loss. He needs to rise in prominence again as an exciting boxer, and that means he has to win by KO. Oscar Valdez looked really bad against Shakur Stevenson as he was dominated in most of the rounds, if not the entire fight. Now, he has a chance to redeem himself, and he will not waste this opportunity.

Just like everyone is thinking, perhaps Oscar Valdez could win via KO.

btc_angela

hero member

Activity: 2632

Merit: 546

Quote from: Kelvinid on July 25, 2023, 06:29:47 AM

Quote from: Yaunfitda on July 25, 2023, 05:31:07 AM

Quote from: Baofeng on July 24, 2023, 07:14:12 PM

I know that there are 3 great fights this week.

However, next month, this is going to be one of the most anticipated much. And as you guys says, 2 Mexican in the ring? that's going to be as entertaining fight that we can see.

So far the odds are still Valdez the favourite at 1.57 and then Navarette not that far at 2.26.

Maybe we can see some changes later in the odds are the fight gets close and those fans putting their bets in.

I do agree, everyone is still caught with the big fights at the end of the month and most likely they forget this fight. Anyways, still almost 3 weeks from now so maybe odds are going to change or there could be swing odds.

But with almost all the posters going for Valdez here, so I wouldn't be surprised if he would pull a big win here. And it's going to be very exciting fight and hopefully it will be a fight that we all anticipated, back and forth war between the two Mexican warriors.

We are now focused on the Inoue vs. Fulton fight, but when that fight is over, for sure, this fight will gain a lot of attention. This fight is going to be exciting because both boxers are known for being aggressive and will be looking for a knockout. Although I believe Valdez is going to be the favorite here, he isn't undefeated anymore, so I think that might change things a bit and give Navarrete the confidence to beat Valdez.

Anyway, this is a 50-50 chances for me.

Fight week has been completed, we have seen the mega-fight already. So it's time for the WBO junior lightweight belt to be put in the line by Oscar Navarette. Again, all out Mexican war here.

Initially though, I thought that Navarette will give Valdez a good fight, specially as a champion and he is the underdog. But looking at his previous fight against Liam Wilson, I think Oscar is much smarter and technically sound as Liam is. So I wouldn't be surprised if this fight will not go to the distance and someone will have to taste the canvass here.

Kelvinid

sr. member

Activity: 2800

Merit: 344

when lambo...

Quote from: Yaunfitda on July 25, 2023, 05:31:07 AM

Quote from: Baofeng on July 24, 2023, 07:14:12 PM

I know that there are 3 great fights this week.

However, next month, this is going to be one of the most anticipated much. And as you guys says, 2 Mexican in the ring? that's going to be as entertaining fight that we can see.

So far the odds are still Valdez the favourite at 1.57 and then Navarette not that far at 2.26.

Maybe we can see some changes later in the odds are the fight gets close and those fans putting their bets in.

I do agree, everyone is still caught with the big fights at the end of the month and most likely they forget this fight. Anyways, still almost 3 weeks from now so maybe odds are going to change or there could be swing odds.

But with almost all the posters going for Valdez here, so I wouldn't be surprised if he would pull a big win here. And it's going to be very exciting fight and hopefully it will be a fight that we all anticipated, back and forth war between the two Mexican warriors.

We are now focused on the Inoue vs. Fulton fight, but when that fight is over, for sure, this fight will gain a lot of attention. This fight is going to be exciting because both boxers are known for being aggressive and will be looking for a knockout. Although I believe Valdez is going to be the favorite here, he isn't undefeated anymore, so I think that might change things a bit and give Navarrete the confidence to beat Valdez.

Anyway, this is a 50-50 chances for me.

Yaunfitda

hero member

Activity: 2870

Merit: 594

Quote from: Baofeng on July 24, 2023, 07:14:12 PM

I know that there are 3 great fights this week.

However, next month, this is going to be one of the most anticipated much. And as you guys says, 2 Mexican in the ring? that's going to be as entertaining fight that we can see.

So far the odds are still Valdez the favourite at 1.57 and then Navarette not that far at 2.26.

Maybe we can see some changes later in the odds are the fight gets close and those fans putting their bets in.

I do agree, everyone is still caught with the big fights at the end of the month and most likely they forget this fight. Anyways, still almost 3 weeks from now so maybe odds are going to change or there could be swing odds.

But with almost all the posters going for Valdez here, so I wouldn't be surprised if he would pull a big win here. And it's going to be very exciting fight and hopefully it will be a fight that we all anticipated, back and forth war between the two Mexican warriors.

Topic: [Boxing]: Oscar Valdez vs Emmanuel Navarette - Aug 12 - page 3. (Read 492 times)