What the heck is the point in having 8 digits if you can't use them?
You can't use them right now. Try spending a 1satoshi input, you'll need to pay a 0.0005BTC tx fee to send it.
So what if you have to pay 0.0005? At least you can still do it.
Topic: Boycott 0.8.2 - page 15. (Read 18974 times)
You can't use them right now. Try spending a 1satoshi input, you'll need to pay a 0.0005BTC tx fee to send it.
So what if you have to pay 0.0005? At least you can still do it.
This is bullshit.
If you do this, you kill any credibility Bitcoin has.
It's not Gavin's place to DICTATE what transactions should be allowed and what transactions should not be allowed.
The beautiful mathematical design of Bitcoin just makes sense. This does NOT make sense in the same theoretical, effortless way. This is arbitrary.
Gavin, if you can't come up with an actual decent, good system for transaction fees that makes sense and solves this problems as a mere CONSEQUENCE, instead of enforcing it in a ridiculous, absolutely not thoughtful way, then you don't deserve to be the main developer behind Bitcoin and you should GET THE FUCK OUT of the way.
I'm so unbelievably angry right now that the main person responsible for the progress of the Bitcoin software is even considering this. If there ever was a time where we needed Satoshi, this is it.
Mark my words, if you implement this, it's the beginning of the end, the end of something beautiful. You do NOT have the right to make such a decision!
If you do this, you kill any credibility Bitcoin has.
It's not Gavin's place to DICTATE what transactions should be allowed and what transactions should not be allowed.
The beautiful mathematical design of Bitcoin just makes sense. This does NOT make sense in the same theoretical, effortless way. This is arbitrary.
Gavin, if you can't come up with an actual decent, good system for transaction fees that makes sense and solves this problems as a mere CONSEQUENCE, instead of enforcing it in a ridiculous, absolutely not thoughtful way, then you don't deserve to be the main developer behind Bitcoin and you should GET THE FUCK OUT of the way.
I'm so unbelievably angry right now that the main person responsible for the progress of the Bitcoin software is even considering this. If there ever was a time where we needed Satoshi, this is it.
Mark my words, if you implement this, it's the beginning of the end, the end of something beautiful. You do NOT have the right to make such a decision!
So effin what. I'm still free to do it. Someone should not tell me how much I can or can't spend. "Let's protect the stupid." Sorry that is the system we are already living in. This is why I've moved to bitcoin/litecoin. If bitcoin protocol adopts this then it becomes the very thing it's said it's against and is meaningless.
And you're still free to do that, just add the 5000x more (1/10th what you otherwise needed as fee) to the actual output value. Not only does it cost less marginally than litecoin's multiply the fee by the number of dust outputs, but the recipient isn't saddled with a bunch of inputs that cost them more to spend then they yield in coin.The real problem with blocking "dust" transactions is that it makes it more difficult to develop colored coin infrastructure using bitcoin.
No it doesn't— just use larger (but still 'subcent') colored coins... at least then when someone loses interest in some color (or the color becomes worthless) there is some economic incentive to go remove them from perpetual fast storage by sweeping them up.I don't give a shit. This is regulation of bitcoin. End of story.
No one should be told how much they can or can't spend. This is against everything I've understood of Bitcoin.
Uh. Bitcoin has _always_ had restrictions, without any restrictions it wouldn't be worthwhile— it would be over the first time some anti-social jackass types "while true; do bitcoind sendtoaddress `bitcoind getnewaddress` 0.0000001 ; done". No one should be forced to carry around megabytes of random people's non-finanicial data storage just because they want to be a Bitcoin node, no one should receive payments that cost more to redeem than they are worth, Bitcoin wouldn't be practically decentralized today if some evil visa-operative could run my above shell script and have made the blockchain 200gbytes in size, etc. The opposite of control isn't no control.No one should be told how much they can or can't spend. This is against everything I've understood of Bitcoin.
So effin what. I'm still free to do it.
And you still are, its no problem to remove the patch, but the actual purpose of the patch is to make SatoshiDice stop filling the blockchain with dust (I'm going to come right out and say it).
I don't give a shit. This is regulation of bitcoin. End of story.
No one should be told how much they can or can't spend. This is against everything I've understood of Bitcoin.
The real problem with blocking "dust" transactions is that it makes it more difficult to develop colored coin infrastructure using bitcoin. And to me, that is the most powerful application of decentralized payment networks. Imposing a barrier to developing that killer app on btc means that it will be developed first, or at least much more fluently, on another network or alt chain. I don't really think it's necessary to boycott btc client upgrades though. The market will sort out whether this is the killer app that I predict, or whether bitcoin is best used as a store of value as opposed to a payment network.
So effin what. I'm still free to do it.
And you still are, its no problem to remove the patch, but the actual purpose of the patch is to make SatoshiDice stop filling the blockchain with dust (I'm going to come right out and say it).
What the heck is the point in having 8 digits if you can't use them?
You can't use them right now. Try spending a 1satoshi input, you'll need to pay a 0.0005BTC tx fee to send it.
So effin what. I'm still free to do it. Someone should not tell me how much I can or can't spend. "Let's protect the stupid." Sorry that is the system we are already living in. This is why I've moved to bitcoin/litecoin. If bitcoin protocol adopts this then it becomes the very thing it's said it's against and is meaningless.
Once BTC price rises enough we will of course remove this patch and revise the tx fee rules to allow these transactions to be spent.
Don't even need to— it's set based on the fee value that gets treated as zero for priority purposes. So presumably miners will lower that amount (no recompile is required) if the value of Bitcoin increases, so even absent new versions with revised defaults we're not stuck with it entirely.What the heck is the point in having 8 digits if you can't use them?
We might as well move to 4 digits. Fuck this.
The earlier versions of the software in the days of Satoshi only used two digits, in fact. We might as well move to 4 digits. Fuck this.
I think you guys are missing the point here.
The tx fee structure we currently use, plain sucks. It's been revised a couple of times as the BTC price rose over the years. These dust tx's cost more to spend than they are worth, they're essentially useless right now.
Once BTC price rises enough we will of course remove this patch and revise the tx fee rules to allow these transactions to be spent.
The tx fee structure we currently use, plain sucks. It's been revised a couple of times as the BTC price rose over the years. These dust tx's cost more to spend than they are worth, they're essentially useless right now.
Once BTC price rises enough we will of course remove this patch and revise the tx fee rules to allow these transactions to be spent.
This. And I think it is still configurable for miners (might require a recompile though).
What the heck is the point in having 8 digits if you can't use them?
You can't use them right now. Try spending a 1satoshi input, you'll need to pay a 0.0005BTC tx fee to send it.
Do not download the 0.8.2 client and do not mine at pools that use 0.8.2.
What the heck is the point in having 8 digits if you can't use them?
We might as well move to 4 digits. Fuck this.
What the heck is the point in having 8 digits if you can't use them?
We might as well move to 4 digits. Fuck this.
I think you guys are missing the point here.
The tx fee structure we currently use, plain sucks. It's been revised a couple of times as the BTC price rose over the years. These dust tx's cost more to spend than they are worth, they're essentially useless right now.
Once BTC price rises enough we will of course remove this patch and revise the tx fee rules to allow these transactions to be spent.
The tx fee structure we currently use, plain sucks. It's been revised a couple of times as the BTC price rose over the years. These dust tx's cost more to spend than they are worth, they're essentially useless right now.
Once BTC price rises enough we will of course remove this patch and revise the tx fee rules to allow these transactions to be spent.
Its 0.007$... thats ONE cent..
Today. What about tomorrow or the next. The whole idea of bitcoin is we don't have someone telling us how we can or can't spend our coins. This all changes when GAVIN decides so. This is not decentralization. This is a dictator telling us what we can and can't do with our money. This goes against everything I was told bitcoin stood for. This will collapse the entire notion of what bitcoin says it is as a whole if this happens.
Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding. If I have a wallet with 3.000005 BTC, then I will not be able to send 3 BTC? What will the client do in this case? I suppose it could just add the amount to the transaction fee instead of returning it as change.
Yes, assuming you mean "with a single input of value 3.000005"* that is the current (since 0.3.19?) behavior.*(if instead your wallet had, say two inputs of respective values 3 and .000005 it would just use the first exactly)
To understand what gmaxwell said, I find this explanation of fees helpful.
There has always been a limit and that 0.00000001BTC.. So why not increase the limit while the prices go up? Those under one cent transactions only fill up the blockchain
Satoshi dice is a business, that uses the blockchain, while you don't agree they are doing nothing wrong, and they are being punished and censored because stupid devs can't fix figure out a correct way to handle the blockchain. They have to censor.
Huh? this has little to nothing to do with SD. AFAIR they no longer create _very_ small outputs at the level implicated here. This is about changing the fundamentals of bitcoin. Transactions should not be limited..... PERIOD. This goes against everything bitcoin has said it stood for.
You been drinking the Gavin juice too much. If I want to send a 0.00000001 BTC to someone, I can't under 0.8.2. If I want to do that in 0.8.1, the fees are high but that still means I CAN DO IT. Do you now see the censorship.
You can still do it, but instead of having to pay 50,000 times the amount in fees— you have to find a miner willing to do it or mine the block yourself (with p2pool if you want to pool).... this is no worse than all the other kinds non-standard transactions that I listed, which you happily ignored. Instead of paying an enormous amount in fees, you can instead just add that to the amount you are paying. It's silly to force you to give funds away from miners as a proxy for trying to get you to not create outputs that aren't worth spending.I ignored them cause they don't make any sense in this argument. The whitepapers say I should be able to spend 0.00000001 BTC I can't if I upgrade who cares about fees. It is censorship, and you and Gavin should be ashamed. KILLING BITCOIN as usual that is what the foundation did, and now that is what the dev team is doing. Amazing... Now I have to find a miner great. What is next on the todo list, make it so only approved business get their transactions handled first.
cough cough just get rid of satoshi dice cough cough
Satoshi dice is a business, that uses the blockchain, while you don't agree they are doing nothing wrong, and they are being punished and censored because stupid devs can't fix figure out a correct way to handle the blockchain. They have to censor.
I dont get the problem... I dont see why you wanna send uBTC 54 or lower... Its 0.007$... thats ONE cent.. It only spams the blockchain... I dont get the problem...
Huh? this has little to nothing to do with SD. AFAIR they no longer create very small outputs.
You, sir, have the patience of a saint.Satoshi dice is a business, that uses the blockchain, while you don't agree they are doing nothing wrong, and they are being punished and censored because stupid devs can't fix figure out a correct way to handle the blockchain. They have to censor.
Huh? this has little to nothing to do with SD. AFAIR they no longer create _very_ small outputs at the level implicated here. Jump to: