Topic: Brace yourselves, CBDCs one Step Closer (Read 701 times)

If a new anonymous cryptocurrency should surface, one thing Bitcoin users have been exposed to is the fact that Bitcoin has provided a more trusted service and has proven to be stable compared to other crypto. The competition would be there of course.
With CBDC however, it is just digital money of what you have in your bank account. I don't see how its operation is supposed to be anonymous in anyway, but with it getting more revised, Bitcoin is not going to be as decentralized and transactions would be easily pinned.
The goal is to track laundering, other neferous activity and with more decentralized technology being in place, it is only matter of time before this is achieved. Monero  as said would have to convince with trusted service over a duration before other users plunge in.

For those under estimating how much of a threat CBDC's are, even more so than paper based currencies -- understand that most banking is done digitally. It would not be difficult for a token based system to be introduced forcing private banks to adopt the central banks currencies. And of course, citizens wouldn't be left with alternative options. The entire point of CBDC's is to give central banks even more power in regulating the economy. It's much easier to generate new digital tokens than it is to modify a country's balance sheet in case it wants new currency.

Money that cannot be censored has already been invented - this is Monero (XMR).  Monero is the complete opposite of CBDC. 

CBDC is centralized money, Monero is decentralized money.  CBDCs are completely devoid of the anonymity feature.  Monero is one of the most anonymous and confidential money protocols.  CBDC was created as an element of a digital concentration camp, Monero was created as an effective tool to overcome prohibitions in the financial sector. 

After the widespread implementation of the CBDC system, it may turn out that Bitcoin is not anonymous and confidential enough to function in parallel with the new financial system. 

Then a more anonymous cryptocurrency may come to the forefront, whose users will be better protected than Bitcoin users.

But will they? How sure are you? As far as my world view goes, people don't care about their privacy as much as they should. I think there is a reasonable doubt that people will prioritize politicians likewise.

Most likely? Is this the most likely scenario in your opinion? 

Here's a fun fact: PayPal, the most popular and used financial institution as we speak, switched to authoritarian last year, and people didn't give a shit.

No, because in a CBDC world without cash, what can you use to pay Mr. Heroine Dealer? Plus it's just a mere example, an extreme one, showing the fact that Bitcoin will be the last taken path to transact freely in a CBDC world. That must have some value in such a world, no?


That's simply not true anymore. It's slowly becoming more and more intrusive.


I will respect your opinion, but let's just agree to disagree.

I think you are directly playing to opponent's hands with arguments like that. Like only usage for confidential small transactions would be heroin. There are people who need confidentiality because they just don't want someone to see what they are buying or are embarrassed about their purchases.

Thing is, there won't be a full proof AML surveillance system because people need privacy and there are other forces in play then just people who want full 24h surveillance. People in democratic countries will be still electing people who see privacy as human right.

FATF travel rule for money will just be more difficult for criminals, but it won't eradicate money laundering. It will just make it more difficult. So most likely platform for CBDC will be privacy preserving because the majority of people will demand it. Only way i can see this happening to use ZK based platform as everything needs to be confidential but auditable at the same time.

BTC with LN (CLN/BOLT12 privacy extensions) and Monero/XMR...

The solution?

The "Real World" of CBDC/digital account is what's making Bitcoin have real value, which also gives logic to the HODL = never converting your Bitcoin back to the fiat system. With Bitcoin, you are self-sovereign, they can't censor your transactions, and they can't take away your wealth from you.

Like you said, but to illustrate more, let's pretend that it's a CBDC World with NO cash/paper-money. How can you buy Heroine from Mr. Drug Dealer? It's a risk because your identity is tied in your every transaction in CBDC, plus a central entity can censor the transaction AND lock you out of your account because you made an illegal transaction. I am very confident Bitcoin will have value, REAL VALUE in such a world.

With digital money accounts, they can literally cut you off from the real world within a blink of an eye . They can impose a modern form of coercive detention on you without putting you into prison. What happens if you have a dispute at court and they obviously want some answers from you, answers that might incriminate yourself and it's not even true. Perhaps they can put you under pressure by blocking certain or all functions of your digital money account. in fact, if cash doesn't exist anymore they could cut off every lifeline that let's you participate in real life. I think it is going to end in a surveillance and oppression disaster. It doesn't even have to happen the obvious way.

Not many people are aware of how the Pegasus spyware has already gotten out of control. Even when they claimed to not use it at all or, if they use it, only in more or less specific cases and not in an arbitrarily prevalent way, it now got out of control. Of course it did because governments cannot resist. Even if they initially had good intentions (which I don't believe), they just can't resist.

And CBDCs are a surveillance and control junky's dream technology! They can create mobility profiles, spending profiles, mental and physical health profiles, etc. That's a horror scenario for the future and it plays into the hands of big corporations. Good luck getting reasonable insurance rates when they know more about you than you know about yourself as you have no idea what score they apply to you based on the data they own and put together about you.

If only someone invented a form of money that can't be censored.

 

In a world where CBDC's adoption grows more and more, I'm sure that the growth of people who value their freedom to transact will grow more and more too. There's just one path towards that and all of them lead to Bitcoin. We are indeed early, because if everyone knew what was going on, Bitcoin would have already surged to six digits.

I really love Bitcoin... 

However, I have to acknowledge the fact that great efforts are currently being made to ensure that the famous principle (1 BTC = 1 BTC) cannot be applied. 

One of the main properties of good money is the fungibility of coins (one coin = another coin).  However, Bitcoins are currently not fungible.  A new coin just mined by a miner is worth more than a "dirty" bitcoin that was previously misused. 

Some users even got into the habit of regularly checking their Bitcoins for trustworthiness, figuring out whether they belong to white, gray or black (criminal).  This is not very good ....

It is consoling that, in addition to Bitcoin, there is also such an anonymous and confidential cryptocurrency as Monero (XMR). 

Monero is a true digital cash currency of the 21st century!

A bit contradictory, isn't it?

Nobody can devalue BTC in the long term...

In my opinion, cash is the best money for people who value their freedom. 

Previously, cash was made from gold and silver.  Since gold and silver are precious metals, no tyrant in the world has ever had the opportunity to devalue your money.  Yes, he could kill you and take your money, but he couldn't devalue it. 

Then the money began to be issued in paper form, and then it was announced that banknotes were no longer backed by gold and could not be exchanged in the Central Bank for gold bars.  This has allowed governments to devalue your money through inflation. 

However, you still had the opportunity to make money transactions anonymously and confidentially.  You could make payments to any person and buy any (even prohibited) goods, works and services. 

The freedom of people was further limited with the beginning of the mass use of plastic bank cards.  Banks began to monitor the money transactions of their customers and block their accounts in case of suspicion of committing some kind of prohibited activity. 

The introduction of the CBDC symbolizes the complete loss of freedom of monetary circulation.  CBDC is, in fact, a digital money concentration camp in which the money does not belong to you, and your right to use it can be revoked at any time.

I think it will be sooner than we think. The people in government know how to manipulate and implement usage of things and if they want mainstream adoption in a couple of years sooner than we think, there is a strategy to achieving it. If the government reduce the amount of physical money in circulation and encourage people to switch to CBDC's for transactions, it will be a difficult change for people to adapt to easily but in a short time people will get along. CBDC's have their own advantages, the only thing is that they are controlled by the government, mainstream adoption of CBDC will increase awareness people have about another digital form of currency which is cryptocurrency.

The "step closer" is actually here. I believe the United Kingdom WILL take the step INSIDE the CBDC world. They're probably in "Stage One" with Britcoin.


Perhaps some of you readers don't understand that "1984" reference. It's the title of a novel about a dystopian future when everyone is monitored, languaged is simplified and manipulated, and all information goes through a centralized entity called "Big Brother".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

I have to say cash is not freedom, neither bank cards obviously, and nor CBDC will be. None of them are the real "freedom" that we need. Bitcoin is sort of there, it's not fully there but it is decentralized so it is by far the best one out there so far, and it will stay like that until something better comes along.

Freedom is not given to us but we need to take it, nobody would give up their billionaire life and government overwatch just because they should, they give it up because you force them to. And in order to do that we need something even better than bitcoin, but it is at least better than anything in the fiat world, and that's something.

Evolution is not necessarily a movement from bad systems to good ones. 

Evolution is a process of struggle and development of various systems, in which the most adapted to given specific external conditions win.  The CBDC has a very good chance of winning this fight, as they have the support of almost all governments and their Central Banks. 

The CBDC system is opposed by commercial banks, large corporations and cypherpunks.

CBDC is the natural evolution of money? they fantasize, since long ago every medium of exchange was determined by the people and the government never issued it but over time, the government tried to control the medium of exchange and monopolized it and there was even a government in a country that printed money as they pleased.

the natural evolution of money is cryptocurrency and bitcoin is the leader, those who reject cryptocurrency reject the evolution of money and CBDC is just a tool for the government to control their citizens more and more.

@cryptosize, first of all, learn how to resize an image because this way you do it is not appropriate for the forum (the page loads more slowly, some users have very slow and limited internet traffic).

Secondly, who is this woman and why would anyone believe her? Money doesn't just disappear from the bank account, and maybe "Sandy" should be a little more careful with whom she shares her card and how much she spends.

It will be more interesting if these banks will also notice the cryptos and realize their worth in case they haven't yet but I think this one is rare. If there are ones that they will embrace first, it would also be the currency which are closer to them. This is of course the CBDCs. It's impossible that they will miss it since the government and other banks, are also recommending it to them.

Don't worry; people in the forum already know that CBDCs are a far from a real crypto and we will never support it. Only the people who thinks that CBDCs are beneficial are the people who are not into cryptos. These people will never learn.