Brave, the so called "privacy" browser now requires KYC!

kovrita

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Quote from: BrewMaster on July 31, 2019, 01:05:33 PM

i just found out about it but apparently this has been the plan for some time now. it seems like it was first for publishers to gather BAT tokens and now it is to be enforcd for anybody who wants to use the wallet (Brave Rewards).
...

it is worth noting that KYC is not requires if you use it as a browser but the question rises, why would you want to use it after this and when there are good browsers like Firefox available ~~which is the original code of this project~~?

This is where the whole industry seems to be going:
Corporation this, Venture Capital that..., KYC this, IRS Letters that...

BrewMaster

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Quote from: malevolent on August 01, 2019, 10:16:52 PM

Isn't his reputation in the tech industry already tarnished due to his political beliefs and activities? Asking for KYC won't ruin someone's reputation in the cryptocurrency space, at least not in 2019, but it definitely leaves a sour taste in the mouth, when they could have relocated to a friendlier jurisdiction.

i don't think there will ever be any problems with asking for KYC in cryptocurrency space. we all know and understand the centralized services are subjected to regulations.
the reputation is ruined when they start claiming to be decentralized (like decentralized exchanges that are centralized, eg. Binance DEX) or talk about privacy (like this case) and then their actions are the exact opposite of their claims.

bL4nkcode

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Limited in number. Limitless in potential.

I'm using brave but never tried to withdraw those bat, and never make an account for uphold, so no, didn't hear this thing till now. Time to relocate I guess.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: malevolent on August 03, 2019, 07:04:36 PM

Authorities in certain *cough* jurisdictions may still one day decide to pull tricks that anyone who contributes in any way to the development of Bisq or its infrastructure

True, but they could also one day do the same thing to bitcoin developers or even anyone they find mining or running a full node. Bitcoin of course wouldn't end or shutdown, it would be continued by people both fighting those laws and in the hundreds of other jurisdictions where those laws don't apply.

Quote from: malevolent on August 03, 2019, 07:04:36 PM

Google probably knows its average user better than all their loved ones put together.

I would say that's a certainty. Would you give your loved ones unrestricted access to your emails? Would you want your loved ones looking at your search or browsing history? Would you show them a complete history of everything you've ever bought online? Every site you've ever visited? Your location in real time, at all times? Would you want them knowing what kind of porn you watch? Google knows all this and more, if you use their products.

pawanjain

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Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 02:45:42 PM

lol I think crypto-related projects are evolving backward. Even google-chrome doesn't require you to do any KYC or that sort of thing to use the browser. You can always configure your cookie settings and make sure your data is protected. Good times with brave. Had to uninstall it after the update.

LOL I think you must be a noob to think that your data is protected after using chrome. Once you use chrome, Google owns your shit.
There is nothing you can do except a few tweaks so that google can steal less data of yours but there is no turning back from it.
Google pretty much tracks everything about you if you keep using it.

May be google is tracking this thread right now since we have used the term 'Google' so often in this thread. Oh, there goes it one more time. Grin

malevolent

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 02, 2019, 11:58:45 AM

Or decentralized exchanges like Bisq, which do not require KYC because they do not touch your coins at any time. Furthermore, because of their decentralized structure, it is near impossible for a government to shut them down - it would be akin to them trying to shutdown bitcoin itself. I admit they have a large problem right now with low liquidity and poor speed of trades, but hopefully as they become more popular in the future both of these things will improve.

Authorities in certain *cough* jurisdictions may still one day decide to pull tricks that anyone who contributes in any way to the development of Bisq or its infrastructure, i.e. seeing for example how Etherdelta's owner had to pay a big fine, can face responsibility.

Quote from: LTU_btc on August 03, 2019, 05:52:19 PM

Why Chrome would need KYC when Google already knows everything about us. If you're using Google products, cookies settings won't help you to hide from being spied. Google knows where you been yesterday or month ago, what are your interests and etc. It's much bigger thing thsn all these KYC.

Google probably knows its average user better than all their loved ones put together.

TryNinja

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Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 02:45:42 PM

lol I think crypto-related projects are evolving backward. Even google-chrome doesn't require you to do any KYC or that sort of thing to use the browser.

Why would they? What KYC has to do with using a browser? The only reason Brave is asking for KYC is because they deal with money and cryptocurrencies, and that's required just like any other exchange. Also, this comparison doesn't many any sense. Brave doesn't require KYC to use the browser, only to do some stuff with their BAT token.

Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 02:45:42 PM

You can always configure your cookie settings and make sure your data is protected. Good times with brave. Had to uninstall it after the update.

You clearly didn't do your research to see what is this about.

LTU_btc

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Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 02:45:42 PM

lol I think crypto-related projects are evolving backward. Even google-chrome doesn't require you to do any KYC or that sort of thing to use the browser.

Why Chrome would need KYC when Google already knows everything about us. If you're using Google products, cookies settings won't help you to hide from being spied. Google knows where you been yesterday or month ago, what are your interests and etc. It's much bigger thing thsn all these KYC.

buwaytress

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Don't know if it's true or not but if so, then you already know immediately to stop using this browser. I hate to say it, but if they're going to implement this, then they should know foremost this is their reputation down the drain. Tells you all you need to know about these for-profit projects that pretend to want to support some crypto or cypherpunk ideal -- it all starts out with dreamy fantansies and ends with your wallet and govt ID plastered all over their screen.

Shame because I actually tried out Brave and it wasn't too shabby.

You really want privacy, stick to Bitcoin, and wait for the privacy upgrades to happen, meanwhile, mix and coinjoin.

mk4

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Quote from: genericlime on August 03, 2019, 03:50:07 AM

Crypto projects are all trying to get regulated because retail consumers think regulated = safe. But that's not the case. Crypto is about taking back our freedom and privacy. Its a shame even DEXs like IDEX are doing KYC now.

It's just the simple fact that they're not decentralized, especially these "decentralized" exchanges. If they were actually decentralized, then the government wouldn't even be able to force anyone KYC because who would they send their warnings to in the first place? The fact that there's one company working on IDEX(Aurora Labs S.A.) working on it is enough evidence that it's nowhere decentralized.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 02:45:42 PM

Even google-chrome doesn't require you to do any KYC or that sort of thing to use the browser.

They don't need to. If you use Chrome, then Alphabet Inc. already have a complete log of everything you do online, every site you visit, every purchase you make, every communication you make. KYC is irrelevant to them when they know it all already.

Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 02:45:42 PM

You can always configure your cookie settings and make sure your data is protected.

You are completely fooling yourself if you think that changing settings from within Chrome will stop Chrome from spying on you and logging your data. The same is true for all Google products. Even when you explicitly tell Chrome or Google to stop spying on you, they keep doing it. All that changes is you don't get to see the "history" that they have stored on you anymore. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/google-location-data-privacy-android-sundar-pichai-a8490636.html

genericlime

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Crypto projects are all trying to get regulated because retail consumers think regulated = safe. But that's not the case. Crypto is about taking back our freedom and privacy. Its a shame even DEXs like IDEX are doing KYC now.

Patatas

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lol I think crypto-related projects are evolving backward. Even google-chrome doesn't require you to do any KYC or that sort of thing to use the browser. You can always configure your cookie settings and make sure your data is protected. Good times with brave. Had to uninstall it after the update.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: BitHodler on August 02, 2019, 06:38:10 AM

What will happen is that the last standing non KYC exchanges will be shit exchanges such as Yobit.

Or decentralized exchanges like Bisq, which do not require KYC because they do not touch your coins at any time. Furthermore, because of their decentralized structure, it is near impossible for a government to shut them down - it would be akin to them trying to shutdown bitcoin itself. I admit they have a large problem right now with low liquidity and poor speed of trades, but hopefully as they become more popular in the future both of these things will improve.

There will always be a place for exchanges with full KYC procedures, because there will always be a demand from day traders for near instant trading with high liquidity.

Quote from: BitHodler on August 02, 2019, 06:38:10 AM

As for Brave, I have used it for a while just for the sake of trying it out, but outside the earning feature it doesn't provide much utility over what some other browsers/extensions offer.

Agreed. I used it for some things, but Firefox with the right settings and extensions is superior in terms of speed, security, and privacy.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Brave is a trusted company with a good reputation

I'm by no means saying Brave is a scam, but giving someone access to your documents just because they are a "trusted company" is a pretty slippery slope. Quadriga was a "trusted company", until they exit scammed with millions. Many people considered Bitconnect a "trust company", until they did the same. Hell, Charles Ponzi was "trusted" by many individuals. Every scam that has successfully scammed people out of their money or information was initially "trusted" by someone.

BitHodler

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 02, 2019, 05:52:59 AM

As I said, there are plenty of exchanges and services which don't require KYC as long as you don't touch fiat. Brave could have been another one with a bit of work on their part. Instead they chose to compromise the privacy of some of their users.

For now there are still exchanges that don't require KYC, but it's going downhill where each week or month one announces that they no longer provide that type of service due to regulatory concerns.

What will happen is that the last standing non KYC exchanges will be shit exchanges such as Yobit. The logical path for other exchanges is to become compliant and cover the risk of potentially being penalized.

As for Brave, I have used it for a while just for the sake of trying it out, but outside the earning feature it doesn't provide much utility over what some other browsers/extensions offer. Won't lose a second sleep over this.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: ABCbits on August 01, 2019, 02:43:38 PM

Only because someone else "pay" for all of us in form of donation, source-code contributor, tester, host mirror server (such as mirror of linux software repository) and run node (such as Tor relay)

True, but it's not like you are being forced in to either paying or giving up your privacy. Thanks to the work of other generous individuals, you can keep your privacy intact without having to spend a penny.

Quote from: pugman on August 01, 2019, 06:18:53 PM

if a company wants to integrate crypto payments whilst operating or having its users living in a country that requires KYC, they have to abide by their terms regardless of what they focus point of the company is.

That's fine, and if they want to go to the KYC route, that's fine too. But they can't then push themselves as a privacy browser and use the headline "You are not a product" on their landing page.

Quote from: mk4 on August 01, 2019, 10:01:53 PM

I think it's mostly due to the locations of these services. KuCoin, Huobi, Binance, outside of the United States, whereas Brave is.

Fair enough, but as malevolent says, it's quite disappointing they have just taken the easiest route for themselves at the expense of their user base. As I said, there are plenty of exchanges and services which don't require KYC as long as you don't touch fiat. Brave could have been another one with a bit of work on their part. Instead they chose to compromise the privacy of some of their users.

Freewallet

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Quote from: bitmover on August 01, 2019, 01:06:27 PM

That uphold wallet is just another custodial service like Freewallet and so many out there, which will freeze your funds whenever they want, making your funds hostage until you give them more docs, or more information or whatever.

Hi bitmover,

As we can see from our previous dialogue, we could never agree on the point deeming our actions as arbitrary.
Since our brand name is mentioned in this message, we've decided to stress it again.

As always, we are always here to assist our customers in all issues that can arise in this regard or in any other matter.

malevolent

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Quote from: mk4 on August 01, 2019, 11:30:35 PM

No idea about that. I don't think his opinions should be used against him in the tech industry though(depends hugely on how bad his opinions are though).

In 2014 he got kicked out of Mozilla for donating to political cause against same-sex marriage several years earlier.

Quote from: mk4 on August 01, 2019, 11:30:35 PM

Quote from: malevolent on August 01, 2019, 10:16:52 PM

Asking for KYC won't ruin someone's reputation in the cryptocurrency space, at least not in 2019, but it definitely leaves a sour taste in the mouth, when they could have relocated to a friendlier jurisdiction.

No I wasn't talking about the KYC. I was speaking more of that he wouldn't want his reputation tarnished if ever the government whoops their ass because they didn't follow regulations. And yea, I think they should've relocated instead too. The US is pretty tight. Maybe not in Malta, but probably a country like Japan perhaps.

I just brought that up as something that doesn't exactly reflect very well on him, as the whole Brave browser and BAT project gave out a very different impression when they were first announced.

mk4

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Quote from: malevolent on August 01, 2019, 10:16:52 PM

Isn't his reputation in the tech industry already tarnished due to his political beliefs and activities?

No idea about that. I don't think his opinions should be used against him in the tech industry though(depends hugely on how bad his opinions are though).

Quote from: malevolent on August 01, 2019, 10:16:52 PM

Asking for KYC won't ruin someone's reputation in the cryptocurrency space, at least not in 2019, but it definitely leaves a sour taste in the mouth, when they could have relocated to a friendlier jurisdiction.

No I wasn't talking about the KYC. I was speaking more of that he wouldn't want his reputation tarnished if ever the government whoops their ass because they didn't follow regulations. And yea, I think they should've relocated instead too. The US is pretty tight. Maybe not in Malta, but probably a country like Japan perhaps.

malevolent

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Quote from: mk4 on August 01, 2019, 10:01:53 PM

I think it's mostly due to the locations of these services. KuCoin, Huobi, Binance, outside of the United States, whereas Brave is. Also, they gotta make sure they're tightly following regulations. I mean, they have Brendan Eich himself as the founder and CEO. They definitely wouldn't want to ruin the reputation of such a big name not only in the crypto space, but also in the tech industry in general. Just my guesses though.

Isn't his reputation in the tech industry already tarnished due to his political beliefs and activities? Asking for KYC won't ruin someone's reputation in the cryptocurrency space, at least not in 2019, but it definitely leaves a sour taste in the mouth, when they could have relocated to a friendlier jurisdiction.

Topic: Brave, the so called "privacy" browser now requires KYC! (Read 646 times)