breaking the satoshi's - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

DaveF

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Quote from: cafter on April 07, 2023, 12:44:53 PM

Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 07, 2023, 10:05:18 AM

It's worth to note that in 2011, that limit was 0.01 BTC, because then, that was about the same as today's ~500 sats.

means after some years this amount will decrease more? (i don't have knowledge that deep)

Not without a fork. But, as has been said the odds of needing it without a lot of things changing are fairly small.
And it's probably so far in the future none of us are going to be alive to care about it.

The other issue of needing amounts that small is still going to be altcoins.
For some reason people like using them. Not going to get into a debate about it here, but if you really need to send an amount that small the you are and the other person probably have some LTC or DOGE or whatever.

-Dave

cafter

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 07, 2023, 10:05:18 AM

It's worth to note that in 2011, that limit was 0.01 BTC, because then, that was about the same as today's ~500 sats.

means after some years this amount will decrease more? (i don't have knowledge that deep)

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 07, 2023, 10:05:18 AM

The dust limit for segwit outputs is only 294 satoshi.

Thanks for correcting me, I always thought it was 546, because chain spamming was happening with 546 sats worth of outputs in the not far past. Pretty strange to spam the blockchain with legacy now that I'm rethinking about it.

Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 07, 2023, 10:05:18 AM

This is the default setting and nodes are free to accept smaller outputs with changing DUST_RELAY_TX_FEE.

Exactly. And it's more than obvious that if the value rises a lot, most will switch to something lower (or download an upgraded client which will have altered value for those who won't). It's worth to note that in 2011, that limit was 0.01 BTC, because then, that was about the same as today's ~500 sats.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on April 07, 2023, 09:32:22 AM

It's neither possible (unless you pay a miner) to send 500 sats at the moment on-chain, because the overwhelming majority of nodes will not propagate a transaction which creates output worth less than 546 sats.

Just to be more accurate:
The 546 satoshi is the dust limit for non-segwit outputs. The dust limit for segwit outputs is only 294 satoshi.

This is the default setting and nodes are free to accept smaller outputs with changing DUST_RELAY_TX_FEE.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: cafter on April 07, 2023, 06:15:01 AM

if the bitcoin price rose very much that one satoshi's price became $1 and a person need to send $0.50 to another person

They could send them milli-sats. They're not exactly like sats, they don't exist in the main chain, but it's a very real concept off-chain; in fact, micro-transactions should be done off-chain at best. It's neither possible (unless you pay a miner) to send 500 sats at the moment on-chain, because the overwhelming majority of nodes will not propagate a transaction which creates output worth less than 546 sats.

Also note that for 1 sat to reach parity with the dollar, the dollar must be very devalued as well; so devalued, that you won't be able to buy even a chewing gum with $1. So, there might not be a point at making such transaction, just as there is no point in transferring a cent.

Zaguru12

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Just like what hosseinimr99 said it could be changed through hard fork, but let’s take a look at it on the transaction fee area. Should bitcoin actually reach the maximum supply limit (21million bitcoin=100 quadrillion satoshi) and mining stopped. Wouldn’t the transaction fee to send a bitcoin or some satoshi be increased. Moreover the transaction fee is measured in satoshi/bytes should one needs to send half of a satoshi wouldn’t the transaction fee be way less than the sending amount because having a transaction fee greater than the sending value isn’t that much logical. Should the transaction be less than a satoshi then it would take hours for it to get a confirmation and should it be abandoned it could possibly be reversed backed to the senders wallet. So logical as it is now I doubt it could be possible to send half a satoshi.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: cafter on April 07, 2023, 07:26:33 AM

it's possible that the protocol could be updated to allow for more decimal places, which will allow for smaller transactions?

The 8 decimal places we have for each bitcoin now is more than enough. But if we want to have more than 8 decimal places for each bitcoin, we have to change the consensus rules through a hard fork.
According to consensus rules, the amount field in a bitcoin transaction must be an integer between 0 and 2100000000000000. (Note that in the bitcoin protocol, we deal with satoshis, not BTC. So, 1 = 1 sat)

Knight Hider

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Quote from: cafter on April 07, 2023, 06:15:01 AM

if the bitcoin price rose very much that one satoshi's price became $1 and a person need to send $0.50 to another person,

how would he send half of satoshi?

It won't be needed. When Bitcoin is worth $100,000,000, $0.50 is worth nothing. You don't send $0.005 now, and you won't sent half of satoshi then.

--Knight Hider

cafter

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Quote from: ABCbits on April 07, 2023, 07:14:12 AM

Quote from: cafter on April 07, 2023, 06:15:01 AM

my question is that is it possible to send half satoshi?

At current moment it's impossible. In addition, sending less than few hundred satoshi (vary by address type) is considered as dust output and other node won't broadcast your transaction. However it's possible with either soft/hard fork to add smaller unit/more precision. And as workaround, it's already possible to do so on Lightning Network. Although the amount will be rounded down when you close channel.

it's possible that the protocol could be updated to allow for more decimal places, which will allow for smaller transactions?

ABCbits

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Quote from: cafter on April 07, 2023, 06:15:01 AM

my question is that is it possible to send half satoshi?

At current moment it's impossible. In addition, sending less than few hundred satoshi (vary by address type) is considered as dust output and other node won't broadcast your transaction. However it's possible with either soft/hard fork to add smaller unit/more precision. And as workaround, it's already possible to do so on Lightning Network. Although the amount will be rounded down when you close channel.

cafter

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just assume,

if the bitcoin price rose very much that one satoshi's price became $1 and a person need to send $0.50 to another person,

how would he send half of satoshi?

is it possible to break satoshi in parts or any other solution?

it's just an assumption so don't reply me with hate and don't tell me that at that time the $1 will worth 0.01 cents. my question is that is it possible to send half satoshi?

Topic: breaking the satoshi's - page 2. (Read 621 times)