Topic: Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan - page 21. (Read 100053 times)
January 18, 2013, 11:33:29 AM
Oh, I didn't realize anyone thought this was a REAL die picture! I thought it was understood from the start that it was just a drawing/CAD file of some sort. Yeah, no argument on that from me! They don't have the chips yet, how could they expect to take a picture of one?
January 18, 2013, 06:16:32 AM
Info still needed:
-- Full company info of BFL
---- Exactly company name
---- State of incorporation
-- Full company info of BFL
---- Exactly company name
---- State of incorporation
http://opencorporates.com/companies/us_wy/2011-000606261
BF Labs Inc.
Company Number 2011-000606261
Status Active
Incorporation Date 2 August 2011 (over 1 year ago)
Company Type Profit Corporation
Jurisdiction Wyoming (US)
Registered Address 5830 E 2nd St Casper, WY 82609 USA United States
Registry Page https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?FilingNum=2011-000606261
http://www.butterflylabs.com/contact/
Address: PO Box 413671
Kansas City, Missouri 64141-3761
United States of America
Telephone: 913-271-6744
(M-F 9-5 CST/CDT) Voicemail: 816 226 6966
Fax: 816 226 6966
e-mail: [email protected]
Skype: butterflylabs
January 18, 2013, 04:06:45 AM
VSS in this case quite probably means Voltage Supply and the picture probably has something to do with how voltage is distributed to the logic meaning that the picture is about as uninteresting as it possibly can be made to be. Not that it matters though, they are all totally uninteresting except you can count the number of pins and see any RAM blocks in there. In this case it looks there are no RAM blocks at all.
If hardcore-fs wonders about why the VSS text is on there, take a look at your first example picture. It also has some weird text written on it such as "RAM" and "FLASH" that sure does not exist if you look visually at the physical die. Same thing with the VSS.
If hardcore-fs wonders about why the VSS text is on there, take a look at your first example picture. It also has some weird text written on it such as "RAM" and "FLASH" that sure does not exist if you look visually at the physical die. Same thing with the VSS.
January 18, 2013, 04:01:38 AM
What the fuck does vss suppose to mean?
1. WELL DONE!!! at least someone is paying attention.......
show me ANY die that has Vss written down the center data bus....... maybe on something 5-15 years old you might find text by the bonding pad... hell you *MAY* even find text on the security mask....
Here is the rub.... what would be the resolution of the edges of any text on a 65nm die (certainly not the same as a 1980's video game)?
(an example on older tech...yep its not A mining chip.. but it is a silicon die)
http://flylogic.net/chippics/atmega169p/atmega169p_large.jpg
http://flylogic.net/chippics/atmega169p/logo_large.jpg
Take a look at the bottom left corner to see WHAT text looks like on a die... now compare it to the image of the die being shown around......
2. Finally... exactly how much 'black' is shown on the above sample images?
Only where the chip is broken top left bottom left..
January 18, 2013, 03:57:33 AM
You missed one......
where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
`where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
That's a very bold statement.
If this is true then prove it, and you will have all the proof you need that BFL is a scam.
Fine go grab the full size image, so that it does not 'disappear'.
What am I looking at here? Is this the 65nm chip?
This doesn't look like any sort of production die to me. This, rather, looks like a graphical representation only. The edges of the die give it away...they are just too neat--something you would see from a cad drawing, etc. Also I can't make out any bond pads either, although the picture isn't detailed enough to see those clearly--however I should be able to see the rows of bond pads.
So, my conclusion is that this isn't a picture of a production die nor does it say in the BFL post that it is.
What are my qualifications for saying this? As being involved professionally in the semiconductor industry for the last thirteen years and inspected many thousands of die under a microscope I hope I can tell the difference between a production die and a graphical representation of one. :-)
January 18, 2013, 03:44:05 AM
The die picture sure is not a photograph taken with a camera, but it still could be something that could be described as a picture of a die. That looks like a printout from a CAD program describing some subset of the layers on the chip. It does not even try to be photorealistic. These pictures typically have all the contents of the layer present as vector graphics and it is a matter of the printer used how thick all the millions of lines in the picture happen to be shown. The colours are just what the CAD program was configured to show different things with. In all ASICs that have been produced in the last 2 decades the typical information content on any layer far exceeds the capabilities of any normal display technique of a photograph so it all comes out as a mess like we have in here. You could say the die is too densely routed for the picture because that is true. That is true for ALL asics, not just BFL asic. The last pictures that are made like this and I enjoyed looking at were from the 1970's. This is a picture of some die.
January 18, 2013, 03:21:21 AM
Still waiting for you to take me up on my bet.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
Jump in my mrb thread and I'll do 20 coins with you after we make terms and use Cassius escrow system
January 18, 2013, 02:21:00 AM
I do have a gentlemen's agreement (one-sided bet) with Josh. When BFL delivers, I will donate $200 USD to a charity of his choice. If they don't delivery, he owes me nothing. That's how I opted to bet on an outcome.
A gentlemen and a scholar!
January 18, 2013, 12:48:17 AM
What the fuck does vss suppose to mean?
January 17, 2013, 11:02:11 PM
The only reasonable conclusion is, despite claiming that BFL is a 100% scam, he doesn't truly believe it.
I believe BFL is only a 49% scam as of now. I only lost 49% of the bitcoins I paid for an ASIC. The more you hesitate for a refund the more you lose! It might take a while until it becomes a 99% scam. But some people will still be happy for it is not a 100%?!@ PG - Yes, that is BFL's claimed 65nm ASIC chip.
January 17, 2013, 10:31:25 PM
You missed one......
where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
`where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
That's a very bold statement.
If this is true then prove it, and you will have all the proof you need that BFL is a scam.
Fine go grab the full size image, so that it does not 'disappear'.
What am I looking at here? Is this the 65nm chip?
January 17, 2013, 09:37:24 PM
You missed one......
where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
`where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
That's a very bold statement.
If this is true then prove it, and you will have all the proof you need that BFL is a scam.
Fine go grab the full size image, so that it does not 'disappear'.
January 17, 2013, 09:29:10 PM
Still waiting for you to take me up on my bet.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
Translation: I want to make money off of anything possible. Bet me! Bet me!
LOL!
The only reasonable conclusion is, despite claiming that BFL is a 100% scam, he doesn't truly believe it.
No one has to prove a damn thing by betting. I don't have to prove anything to you nor does Micon.
January 17, 2013, 08:57:54 PM
You missed one......
where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
`where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
That's a very bold statement.
If this is true then prove it, and you will have all the proof you need that BFL is a scam.
January 17, 2013, 07:43:00 PM
The only reasonable conclusion is, despite claiming that BFL is a 100% scam, he doesn't truly believe it.
I believe BFL is only a 49% scam as of now. I only lost 49% of the bitcoins I paid for an ASIC. The more you hesitate for a refund the more you lose! It might take a while until it becomes a 99% scam. But some people will still be happy for it is not a 100%?! January 17, 2013, 07:38:22 PM
Still waiting for you to take me up on my bet.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
Translation: I want to make money off of anything possible. Bet me! Bet me!
LOL!
The only reasonable conclusion is, despite claiming that BFL is a 100% scam, he doesn't truly believe it.
I believe Bryan does believe it and that his Bitcoin heart is in the right place, as was too my heart when I've previous went a huntin' ghost in the machines: Zhou Tong; Tom Williams; Sonny Vliesides; etc. I've stumbled a many a times.
I do have a gentlemen's agreement (one-sided bet) with Josh. When BFL delivers, I will donate $200 USD to a charity of his choice. If they don't delivery, he owes me nothing. That's how I opted to bet on an outcome.
With the except of a little humor at BFL's expense, I've self-imposed a truce unless something nefarious transpires. Currently, I'm leaning toward them delivering. What or when, I don't know.
Full Disclosure (I've mention this before): I may (and have) PM individuals from time to time stuff related to BFL with instructions to not state its source. To date, I've only exercised that option three or four times, but provided nothing groundbreaking.
Personally, if Josh and I were to have dinner together, I believe that we would enjoy each other's company.
~Bruno K~
January 17, 2013, 07:00:15 PM
Still waiting for you to take me up on my bet.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
Translation: I want to make money off of anything possible. Bet me! Bet me!
LOL!
The only reasonable conclusion is, despite claiming that BFL is a 100% scam, he doesn't truly believe it.
January 17, 2013, 06:55:13 PM
Still waiting for you to take me up on my bet.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
Translation: I want to make money off of anything possible. Bet me! Bet me!
LOL!
January 17, 2013, 06:19:40 PM
You missed one......
where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
Please do tell more. How is it not a die picture? What controlling infrastructure should we be looking for?where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
Now If I do that... how can we ask questions about the answers we get back, without some plausible bullshit answer being formulated...
January 17, 2013, 06:12:08 PM
You missed one......
where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
Please do tell more. How is it not a die picture? What controlling infrastructure should we be looking for?where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html
Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.
Now If I do that... how can we ask questions about the answers we get back, without some plausible bullshit answer being formulated...
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