Topic: btc-arbs.com - Update: dead HYIP, Refund progress: BTC-arbs still doing refunds - page 165. (Read 276958 times)

Is it possible to track incuming and outgoing transactions realted to the deposit-address which has been created by btc-arbs once you started a deposit-procedere?


I am going to collect some facts to show why that could be ponzi.

-> I wanted to start deposit of 500$ via bank wire. That was on  03-30-2014. I clicked on bank wire, got message "We will contact ya within 24 hours with further information" (or similar message, cant remember). No answer till today.
-> No correct caclulations. I have "earned" more coins than calculated. Not much more, but theres a deviation. (Other user reports correct working calculations) And i really did correct calculations.
-> No presence on social networks or forums.
-> Squishy, vague answers when you ask "are you ponzi, explain why not" on support-site.
-> Some little issues with percentage table on results-site, percentage on wrong day.
-> Possible issues with 2FA. (To be verfied)
-> An issue with wrong withdrawal, but turned out well after a new try.
-> No reports on VIP-partys in Geneva
-> Anonymous whois
-> Neither logical explanation for necessity of 10 employees nor how to pay them
-> No marketing, rather sitting in the background.
-> Some vague statements on future plans or tasks requested by community
-> Questionable meetings with leaders of bitcoin industry (lol)
-> Bear a likeness to another ponzi site.
-> "Bank wire" appears only on deposit-site, not on mainpage.

Another good point Sunny1! This withdraw anytime thing is a new gimmick in the HYIP industry that started late last year.

Here is an example of the ramifications of this. I was involved in another BTC Arbitrage HYIP called Bitcoinrain (AKA Mercado Bitcoin) from 2012-2013. Everything was going great, then one day the admin claimed the web site was hacked. Thousands of BTC were lost.

As it turns out, the "hack" mysteriously happened after one member tried to withdraw 1,200 BTC. Everything is documented here:

http://bitcoinscammers.com/mercadobitcoin-com-br/

So I personally don't consider a no lock in period a good thing at all - quite the opposite actually.

Agree with you, much more legitimate!

And the lock-in period is what all legitimate investment firms are doing. How can any have any financial security needed for medium or long-term planning?

But to withdraw all deposits after one day is a new trend in the HYIP arena. That can also be researched on the famous blog mentioned earlier: money-news-online.com/blog

   Hey I have as much right to my opinion as you do to yours!

I did look seriously at Bitcoin Trader and got very bad vibes from it.  
  * Not allowing people to get money back in less than 120 day.  That is seriously shady.
  * Converting everything in to shares, is at best poor management at worst deceptive.
  * I personally seen scams where mining is presented as part of the operation.   In fact that seems too common in bitcoin.
  * Bernie Madoff was a public figure that didn't hide, didn't stop him from running a scam.  

I'm trying to be objective, that is why I don't even offer referrals.   If you didn't care, then you wouldn't offer it.   Likely you have very little at risk and just want referrals to make a little bit without risk.    

My trust level of Btc-arbs isn't that high, but is higher than that of Bitcoin Trader. 

Great info, thanks for that.

Not at all, I couldn't care less if you sign up to Bitcoin Trader or not. Like I said, I've been involved in these things for a long time and I know what to look for so I am just pointed out the facts. If someone found my info useful and would like to join up under me then great. If not, no skin off my back.

Just don't post that BTC Arbs looks more legitimate than Bitcoin Trader because that is certainly untrue.

Not if you want to withdraw in bitcoin.

I find this one of the biggest showstoppers for bitcoin trader site.

As far as I'm concerned, it is hard to take the opinion of anyone that posts referral links.   You have tainted motives.

 

Have to strongly disagree with you on this one - I've played traditional HYIPs (aka ponzis) for years and btc-arbs definitely has a much higher chance of being a straight up ponzi than Bitcoin Trader. Why?

1) Bitcoin Trader started off as invite only and to this day they do not advertise on any of the HYIP-related forums. Btc Arbs on the other hand advertises on the biggest HYIP blog of them all - MNO:

http://money-news-online.com/blog/2014/02/18/18022014-btcarbs-review-daily-news-hyip-industry/

You will notice even the reviewer on MNO says not to listen to the statements about doing BTC arbitrage as it is commonplace in the HYIP industry to pretend to conduct some real business activity (forex trading is often used).

A true HYIP/Ponzi requires constant money coming in - Btc Arbs is clearly more reliant on new funds coming in than Bitcoin Trader.

In fact, there has been talk that Bitcoin Trader will eventually have to stop new deposits (as arbitrage trading has limitations as to how much money you can realistically move around).

2) Bitcoin Trader has posted losing (i.e. negative return) days. I don't believe Btc Arbs has ever posted a losing day.

3) Mining. The fact that Bitcoin Trader is also involved in mining adds to their legitimacy and provides a safety net of sorts as they have other sources of income (i.e. not only reliant on new money coming in).

4) Fiat conversion. Another safety net for Bitcoin Trader. You make a deposit and it is calculated in USD. Your returns are in USD. This provides stability. Btc Arbs is only dealing in BTC, so they are susceptible to the wild price fluctuations of BTC. For example, say you deposited a large amount of BTC a few weeks back. If they convert it now to supply fiat to their trading activities, they would be getting a considerable amount less would they not?

5) The owner of Bitcoin Trader does not hide his identity and if you have a 20k or greater deposit you can actually meet with him in person and discuss other opportunities with him. The odds are high that he is a legitimate Bitcoin entrepreneur, while nothing is known at all about BTC Arbs' owner.

I spent a good deal of time researching both of these programs and I ended up going with Bitcoin Trader only. I check this thread periodically to see if any new info has surfaced that increases the chances of Btc Arbs being legit as I would love to diversify and put some money with them as well. As of now, I don't feel confident in doing so.

Hope this helps anyone who is considering these two programs. If anyone does decide to join Bitcoin Trader, please use my referral link:

https://bitcoin-trader.biz/

No need to be sorry, just my gut feelings which could be wrong.   I was just put off by share concept and the fact that they also do mining, just doesn't make sense to me.   

I haven't actually done basically any research myself yet, just heard about it.  "They are significantly more trustworthy" was probably an overstatement.  Sorry about that!

No ... Turning over your money for 120 days requires a lot more trust and leaves them a lot more room to just take off at some point.   Anyway I looked at the bitcointrader.biz several times, but personal it feels more like a scam to me than btc-arbs.com does and that is saying a lot.   

So because they demand more trust, they're less likely to be a scam? Wait, or, more likely? I'm confused.

bitcointrader.biz demands a great deal more trust as once you deposit you can't pull out for 120 days.   To me that makes it much more likely to be a scam.  

What makes you say that bitcoin-trader.biz is more trustworthy?

I'm out for now.  Too many weird things recently.  If they prove their legitimacy, I'll get back in, but now they're just too sketchy for me.  I might look into bitcoin-trader.biz (they do arbitrage too, and are significantly more trustworthy) when the price of bitcoin goes back up.

I do still have one referrer in BTC Arbs, so I'll still be making some money. 

Another thing: one of my withdrawals was "cancelled by admin" because I "provided an invalid address".  I don't think I messed the address up because I think I copied the address straight from MultiBit, but I could have made a mistake.  I did immediately send a withdrawal request to get all my money out, and that went through fine.  This happen to anyone else?

Now this is hard to believe. It's fairly easy for a domain owner to register for mail addresses that are handled by google. Which provides spam handling etc.... There are other services like Trend Micros that do spam filtering. For limited service 1 domain with a few addresses google is free. Trend Micros is not free but not that expensive either.

Thank you. Please keep me updated.  It's very frustrating and feels as if it's an additional gamble holding the account with no one to communicate with. Hopefully it's not my loss their gain.

Let me know what you hear.

Thanks
c13

Did so!

EDIT: It cleared now!

no, but the bonus will result in a little more payout, which gives acct # 3 more payout, and so on... this is how some scams work.