BTC-E price difference | Bitcointalksearch.org

mainpmf

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Quote from: pawel7777 on January 05, 2017, 05:33:17 PM

Quote from: mainpmf on January 05, 2017, 01:01:24 PM

Quote from: pawel7777 on January 04, 2017, 05:08:02 PM

SHOW ME YOUR MATH. I dare you. Do a simulation. You send BTC1 to btc-e then what? You can even ignore the fees to keep it simple. Fuck, you can even assume Bitstamp price going to $1 million and use any starting difference you want, If that's any easier for you.

The price on btc-e doesn't matter when you deposit btc but have to buy it back later. The only way you could make profit in this case is when the price goes down (on btc-e) after you sold, so you can buy back more btc. But this has nothing to do with arbitrage.

ok.

Btce is at 1000 and Bitstamp at 1050
You send 1BTC so Bitstamp so you get 1050 then you buy 1BTC at btce.

You won 50$. Easy life.

You can do it the other way around. You send 1000$ to btce. You buy 1BTC. You send it to bitstamp. You sell it and get 1050. You won 50$

All I'm saying is that it's complicated to actually profit from that because you need large funds available and also to have a price gap high enough to cover fees. That's where the difficulty is.

Thanks for explaining how arbitrage works but we all know that. You failed to notice (or just didn't bother to read) that my and BitHodler's posts relate not to arbitrage in general, but to use of bitcoins as an alternative to fiat btc-e deposits, which won't work for arbitrage (and BitHodler has already clarified on that).

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Ok ok, my apologies! I absolutely didn't understand the first post in fact! For me BitHodler's post was meant to explain a use of arbitrage while getting fiat out of there!
Well that makes much more sense now. I have to admit I didn't understand why you were asking me to "do the maths" as it was pretty obvious to see the point of arbitrage (which is basically to get some profit from price differences).

Well I still maintain that arbitrage is freaking difficult!
For the rest it seems that I wasn't discussing on the right subject so obviously I was a bit out of track.

pawel7777

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Quote from: mainpmf on January 05, 2017, 01:01:24 PM

Quote from: pawel7777 on January 04, 2017, 05:08:02 PM

SHOW ME YOUR MATH. I dare you. Do a simulation. You send BTC1 to btc-e then what? You can even ignore the fees to keep it simple. Fuck, you can even assume Bitstamp price going to $1 million and use any starting difference you want, If that's any easier for you.

The price on btc-e doesn't matter when you deposit btc but have to buy it back later. The only way you could make profit in this case is when the price goes down (on btc-e) after you sold, so you can buy back more btc. But this has nothing to do with arbitrage.

ok.

Btce is at 1000 and Bitstamp at 1050
You send 1BTC so Bitstamp so you get 1050 then you buy 1BTC at btce.

You won 50$. Easy life.

You can do it the other way around. You send 1000$ to btce. You buy 1BTC. You send it to bitstamp. You sell it and get 1050. You won 50$

All I'm saying is that it's complicated to actually profit from that because you need large funds available and also to have a price gap high enough to cover fees. That's where the difficulty is.

Thanks for explaining how arbitrage works but we all know that. You failed to notice (or just didn't bother to read) that my and BitHodler's posts relate not to arbitrage in general, but to use of bitcoins as an alternative to fiat btc-e deposits, which won't work for arbitrage (and BitHodler has already clarified on that).

ridery99

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Quote from: Bitcoinismoney on January 04, 2017, 02:44:53 AM

Is there a reason why the price on BTC-E is so much lower than the other exchanges? It's currently trading at $1018 while Bitstamp is $1054. The Chinese exchanges are even higher. Couldn't someone just buy on BTC-E and sell on Bitstamp? I'm assuming I'm missing something so if someone could explain this to me it would be much appreciated!

You should go arb that thing

mainpmf

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Quote from: pawel7777 on January 04, 2017, 05:08:02 PM

Quote from: mainpmf on January 04, 2017, 02:50:34 PM

...
Hmm... nice try but that's not exactly what he described is it? :3

I mean in your scenario both sites have the same basic price but bitstamp price rises faster! So of course it would be stupid to use btc e and not bitstamp. But what he describes and where arbitrage trader earn money is in the same situation but with and already existing difference! Consider that bitstamp is at 1020 when btc e is at 1000 and then keep the same price rise as before then you'll see it's more profitable to do the arbitrage.

SHOW ME YOUR MATH. I dare you. Do a simulation. You send BTC1 to btc-e then what? You can even ignore the fees to keep it simple. Fuck, you can even assume Bitstamp price going to $1 million and use any starting difference you want, If that's any easier for you.

The price on btc-e doesn't matter when you deposit btc but have to buy it back later. The only way you could make profit in this case is when the price goes down (on btc-e) after you sold, so you can buy back more btc. But this has nothing to do with arbitrage.

ok.

Btce is at 1000 and Bitstamp at 1050
You send 1BTC so Bitstamp so you get 1050 then you buy 1BTC at btce.

You won 50$. Easy life.

You can do it the other way around. You send 1000$ to btce. You buy 1BTC. You send it to bitstamp. You sell it and get 1050. You won 50$

All I'm saying is that it's complicated to actually profit from that because you need large funds available and also to have a price gap high enough to cover fees. That's where the difficulty is.

BitHodler

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Quote from: pawel7777 on January 04, 2017, 05:08:02 PM

The price on btc-e doesn't matter when you deposit btc but have to buy it back later. The only way you could make profit in this case is when the price goes down (on btc-e) after you sold, so you can buy back more btc. But this has nothing to do with arbitrage.

You are definitely right here. I should have included more details at the time I was writing that post. That should have made things more clear.

Today there was such an opportunity as well. I sold at $1046 on BTC-E today, and bought back at $1015 at the time a huge red candle was forming. All that in a very short time. I then sold these coins at $1100 at Bitstamp.

It was meant as an example of how to get fiat in your BTC-E account as well. I didn't state that it had anything to do with arbitrage trading. Hope that clears things up.

pawel7777

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Quote from: mainpmf on January 04, 2017, 02:50:34 PM

...
Hmm... nice try but that's not exactly what he described is it? :3

I mean in your scenario both sites have the same basic price but bitstamp price rises faster! So of course it would be stupid to use btc e and not bitstamp. But what he describes and where arbitrage trader earn money is in the same situation but with and already existing difference! Consider that bitstamp is at 1020 when btc e is at 1000 and then keep the same price rise as before then you'll see it's more profitable to do the arbitrage.

SHOW ME YOUR MATH. I dare you. Do a simulation. You send BTC1 to btc-e then what? You can even ignore the fees to keep it simple. Fuck, you can even assume Bitstamp price going to $1 million and use any starting difference you want, If that's any easier for you.

The price on btc-e doesn't matter when you deposit btc but have to buy it back later. The only way you could make profit in this case is when the price goes down (on btc-e) after you sold, so you can buy back more btc. But this has nothing to do with arbitrage.

lite

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Quote from: Bitcoinismoney on January 04, 2017, 02:44:53 AM

Is there a reason why the price on BTC-E is so much lower than the other exchanges? It's currently trading at $1018 while Bitstamp is $1054. The Chinese exchanges are even higher. Couldn't someone just buy on BTC-E and sell on Bitstamp? I'm assuming I'm missing something so if someone could explain this to me it would be much appreciated!

Arbitraging between btc-e and bitstamp/bitfinex could only be possible if you could get your money quickly in/out of your bank account, it would probably take 2-3 days to deposit/withdraw money into your bank account.(you should also take a look into fees) if the price drops by then you won't be able to take advantage of the price difference. Roll Eyes

mainpmf

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Quote from: pawel7777 on January 04, 2017, 10:38:34 AM

Quote from: BitHodler on January 04, 2017, 08:27:57 AM

Quote from: boyshx on January 04, 2017, 08:16:49 AM

it's very difficult to buy there, specially if you are american.

It's indeed quite a difficult thing to get fiat there, but not impossible.

I do this - At the time the price of BTC-E matches the price of other exchanges, I deposit coins there and sell them then for USD. That's the easiest way of getting fiat there without any hassle.

And when the price of BTC-E is like $30 behind other exchanges, I buy Bitcoin and cash it out to Kraken or Bitstamp and sell it there. Easy profits.

^^^ things that never happened

I hope you're joking, but something tells me you were not. So let's break it down with an example:

1- When price on both sites is say at $1,000 - you're sending BTC1 to btc-e and sell it for $ (and pay 0.2% fee - you got $998 balance left) then you wait...
2- Price goes up to say $1,051 on Bitstamp, but on btc-e is only at $1,020 - so you're buying btc with that $998 - net of fees that's ~BTC0.976 and sending to Bitstamp
3- (ignoring Bitstamp fees) you sell and get ~$1,026!

Pro-tip: by skipping btc-e and sending that BTC1 directly to Bitstamp you'd be $25 richer. But at least now you can say "look mum! I'm an arbitrage trader!"

Hmm... nice try but that's not exactly what he described is it? :3

I mean in your scenario both sites have the same basic price but bitstamp price rises faster! So of course it would be stupid to use btc e and not bitstamp. But what he describes and where arbitrage trader earn money is in the same situation but with and already existing difference! Consider that bitstamp is at 1020 when btc e is at 1000 and then keep the same price rise as before then you'll see it's more profitable to do the arbitrage.

But you're right in pointing at fees! They'll get most of your profit, I'm not sure it's really possible to do arbitrage trades if you're not extremely experimented!

pawel7777

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Quote from: BitHodler on January 04, 2017, 08:27:57 AM

Quote from: boyshx on January 04, 2017, 08:16:49 AM

it's very difficult to buy there, specially if you are american.

It's indeed quite a difficult thing to get fiat there, but not impossible.

I do this - At the time the price of BTC-E matches the price of other exchanges, I deposit coins there and sell them then for USD. That's the easiest way of getting fiat there without any hassle.

And when the price of BTC-E is like $30 behind other exchanges, I buy Bitcoin and cash it out to Kraken or Bitstamp and sell it there. Easy profits.

^^^ things that never happened

I hope you're joking, but something tells me you were not. So let's break it down with an example:

1- When price on both sites is say at $1,000 - you're sending BTC1 to btc-e and sell it for $ (and pay 0.2% fee - you got $998 balance left) then you wait...
2- Price goes up to say $1,051 on Bitstamp, but on btc-e is only at $1,020 - so you're buying btc with that $998 - net of fees that's ~BTC0.976 and sending to Bitstamp
3- (ignoring Bitstamp fees) you sell and get ~$1,026!

Pro-tip: by skipping btc-e and sending that BTC1 directly to Bitstamp you'd be $25 richer. But at least now you can say "look mum! I'm an arbitrage trader!"

mainpmf

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Quote from: kwukduck on January 04, 2017, 09:35:23 AM

Because it's a russian scam site.
It's hard to get money on your account and even harder (if not impossible) to get any coins or money out of it.

Wut???
I had the best user services experience with them! They're professional as fuck!
I had a problem with some money which disappeared from my account because of a parameter problem (completely my fault here, an option I used but forgot I did) and they helped me tracing my money so I could find it again! When I had a login problem because I lost my phone (so no longer 2FA) they had a simple but secure process making it easy for me to get my account back!

I highly recommend them from a quality point of view!

kwukduck

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Because it's a russian scam site.
It's hard to get money on your account and even harder (if not impossible) to get any coins or money out of it.

mainpmf

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Yeah I don't know why there is this difference. It's always the case without any appearant reason.
But the fact is that you can't really profit from that. There is indeed a difference but it's a tiny one! To buy in a site and sell in the other you have to take all the transactiond tome into account, the variation of price during this moment and the fee when buying and selling everything...

Really I'm not sure it's worth it most of the time. Maybe you can have occasions with a huge price gap allowing you to do that and get a profit from it. But it will seldome be the case and you have a bit of risk still.

Vitnasant

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Quote from: GMPoison on January 04, 2017, 03:35:36 AM

Bitcoin is cheaper on BTC-E because getting cash in and out of the exchange is more difficult. I was confused by this at first too. Take note of the price now on BTC-E and on Coinbase. Then check back later on BTC-E and you'll notice it has caught up.

I heard the theory before.

BitHodler

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Quote from: boyshx on January 04, 2017, 08:16:49 AM

it's very difficult to buy there, specially if you are american.

It's indeed quite a difficult thing to get fiat there, but not impossible.

I do this - At the time the price of BTC-E matches the price of other exchanges, I deposit coins there and sell them then for USD. That's the easiest way of getting fiat there without any hassle.

And when the price of BTC-E is like $30 behind other exchanges, I buy Bitcoin and cash it out to Kraken or Bitstamp and sell it there. Easy profits.

Fatov

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Always btc-e is lower, then bitstamp, bitfinex is higher and huobi higher than all

clarkgeneral86

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I thought this was common knowledge.
It's basic arbitrage, different exchanges have different prices because of the fees they charge and how difficult it is to move dollars in and out of them.

boyshx

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it's very difficult to buy there, specially if you are american.

pawel7777

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Quote from: Soros Shorts on January 04, 2017, 04:47:01 AM

Quote from: Bitcoinismoney on January 04, 2017, 02:44:53 AM

Is there a reason why the price on BTC-E is so much lower than the other exchanges? It's currently trading at $1018 while Bitstamp is $1054. The Chinese exchanges are even higher. Couldn't someone just buy on BTC-E and sell on Bitstamp? I'm assuming I'm missing something so if someone could explain this to me it would be much appreciated!

Have you actually tried depositing USD into your BTC-E account? Just try do it and you will understand the reason why. It is either very costly or very inconvenient to do, depending on where you live and what transfer options you have.. On the other hand selling BTC and withdrawing USD is relatively easier.

Don't know about convenience, but wire transfers are surely not cheap. https://btc-e.com/fees

Quote

Deposit fee Withdraw fee
International wire transfer 0.5%, min $20 fee 1%, min $100 fee

There are some cheaper options, such as OK pay and other (I've never heard about before), but these may be charging their own fees.

@OP, on top of that you have to take into account the exchange fees on both BTC-E/Bitstamp (think it's 0.2% on both) and consider rather low BTC/USD volume on BTC-E.

Xester

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BTC-E as an exchanger is available only in selected countries. And the demand on bitcoins by those countries dictates the price of bitcoin in BTC-E. It is not something to be wondered upon, it is very normal. If you go to cryptocompare, a site that enables you to see the difference in buy and sell orders in all exchangers, then you will see that in every exchanger there is a different in price depending on the market price trend.

Soros Shorts

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Quote from: Bitcoinismoney on January 04, 2017, 02:44:53 AM

Is there a reason why the price on BTC-E is so much lower than the other exchanges? It's currently trading at $1018 while Bitstamp is $1054. The Chinese exchanges are even higher. Couldn't someone just buy on BTC-E and sell on Bitstamp? I'm assuming I'm missing something so if someone could explain this to me it would be much appreciated!

Have you actually tried depositing USD into your BTC-E account? Just try do it and you will understand the reason why. It is either very costly or very inconvenient to do, depending on where you live and what transfer options you have.. On the other hand selling BTC and withdrawing USD is relatively easier.

Topic: BTC-E price difference (Read 2212 times)