Topic: BTC-E.com will be back - page 2. (Read 3798 times)

BTC-E.com will be back

I'd agree that we shouldn't get our hopes up too much. Collapsing businesses/services often give these kind of updates before eventually disappearing. It also wasn't the most encouraging update (purses seized, next update to detail how much was lost).

But everything points to Vinnik not being an owner or even significant admin.

I told us btc-e would be back again

Annnnd you're talking about BTCe which was seized for fraud?

Now lets go back to my first post you responded to which you conveniently clipped from this tree.


At what point did I say that a normal exchange doesn't have assets to trade back? I said the only time that FIAT only counts as FIAT is when it leaves the system, meaning the FIAT that was originally deposited whatever form that might be could now otherwise be gold bullion somewhere in a neo nazi bunker. For all intents and purposes, it really doesn't matter. I never saw FIAT out of BTCe nor did a lot of other people. It may not even exist in the first place and still doesn't matter once again unless people try to move it out of the system. That's how Mt Gox survived so long in the negative... And Cryptsy.

You don't follow your thoughts to the end. Yes, of course they don't have the equivalent amount of fiat for bitcoins in their bank accounts but if you trade for fiat, they had the exact amount of fiat in their bank accounts because someone deposited it. There will be never be virtual fiat because people like you and me creating the sell and buy orders of fiat. No sell order for fiat, then you cannot buy fiat.

Example of obligation: https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/ia-2176.htm

I'm not mixing banks with exchanges. I'm pointing out that they're similar to banks and 'seizing' an exchange is basically very similar to seizing a bank. Most people don't think about a place they store money at as an 'exchange'. But in the case with BTCe it was very much that way due to the ability to move between FIAT and BTC very easily.

They aren't obligated to 'hold' FIAT. Just like banks in real life are only required to have only so much cash on hand... or do you think they just keep all the money deposited there in a vault?

If you do think they're 'obligated' to hold it, point me to a source that requires them to do just that.

Yes... yes it could... or be deposited there at some point... transferred there (such as with BTC)... have assets to back it up... or otherwise have something 'show' for it. And no, they aren't required to have FIAT specifically for you to trade TO FIAT, only when you MOVE FIAT out of the system. And that for instance they could make up for simply by transferring BTC to another exchange and receiving money to an account or waiting for more FIAT to be deposited to the exchange.

You can finger point all you want, but pretty sure you guys have no idea how this sorta thing works. It's not zero sum. There are plenty of ways of creating 'virtual' FIAT other then JUST having someone deposit it there. Like the amount of BTC you can sell on BTCe (or other exchanges) isn't limited to the amount of FIAT they have on hand... it only is when it's removed from the system and you can already see examples where they're short (such as with Cryptsy before they folded and Coinbase on busy weeks when it takes 7+ days to get your deposit).

It is quite obvious you don't understand how exchanges work.  You are mixing up banks with exchanges as well, it is not the same.

But yes, probably some shady exchange would use the fiat which is deposited for something else than actually holding which they are obligated to.

However, for a fiat <-> crypto trade to happen, there absolutely must be fiat deposited to the system. It cannot be just created, or well, it could, but this is would be a clear fraud by the exchange then and we are talking about legit business, right.

You cannot sell your crypto coins into fiat if there is nobody wanting to sell their fiat. And how do they sell their fiat? Either they deposited and created an order or they sold their coins to another guy who deposited fiat before and created a fiat sell order, and so on.

Maybe it is easier for you to understand if you look at how stocks are bought and sold (regularly, not talking about margin trading).

Pretty sure you don't know how banks and exchanges work. It's a number, the only time they're required to have actual FIAT is when you make a withdrawl to a bank account. Banks for instance can spend your money (that's half the reason it's profitable) and since the bank runs are required to have a certain amount of currency on hand at all times. You can have a number in a bank and absolutely no cash associated with it.

Pretty sure I also specified an exchange... but you know if you want to think I meant removing USD Euros I guess...


Nah... No it's not. That's just something that makes you feel good inside. Even banks in real life only do that up to a certain extent.

And yup, as I mentioned earlier that's pretty much what they already did... It's just USD/Euro were MARKETS and not actual gold knox backed FIAT. You can call Crypto markets USD and Euro, it doesn't mean there is a real dollar or euro there. It's all numbers.

I know this is a 'mind blown' sorta deal, but your money in real life works the same way.



Like I mentioned if they're actually rather shady and this is legal action - they'll be back as they're very professional. If this was legal action and they're complying it's probably all getting seized, not that we should have our assets seized.

Look at it this way. The feds seized a bank. When have you ever heard of a bank getting seized in real life because one of the owners was being fraudulent? You can't. Because you're essentially taking someone elses money. Even if some of it was dirty, there are plenty of people (myself included) with clean money on the exchange. Kinda the shitty part of living in the wild west of cryptos. Government (who knows almost nothing a about crypto) can essentially have a LEGAL bank heist and then not give two shits about whose money they're taking.

This sorta thing wouldn't fly if it was a physical location locals have their money at.

So if this is legal and the owner was doing something illegal, I agree with what they're doing. But since they're essentially just stealing from plenty of legitimate and completely ordinary people I really fucking hope BTCE comes back.

I've seen similar designs on torrent site takedown notices in years past. Maybe it's designed by the Shadowserver guys (the sinkhole where BTC-E is now pointing to), as opposed to some other takedown notices you might see. It does look a lot less professional than the Pokerstars/Full Tilt takedown. I remember those looked legit.

If they returned and I got even a chunk of my funds back, I would be ecstatic. It would be life-changing. But I doubt it.

I am very sad.$250000

I don't know if they come back, but this incident with the crap MS paint job is bullshit.

Gut feeling says they will return.

Well, it's generally expected that the exchange is supposed to be solvent, that is, every Dollar or Euro or Bitcoin in a customer account should be backed by the exchange. Sure, when I sell to dollars, I often don't want to withdraw to a bank account... but many do. BTC-E could try to pull a Poloniex/Bitfinex move and essentially not have fiat banking, and just offer USD-Tether markets. But now that it's clear that the feds intend to shut them down (not just take a $110mm fine and let them operate with new AML procedures), it just doesn't make sense. I really hate to say it, but what makes the most sense for the owners is to simply disappear....

Btc-e is never back again, owner is problem about law
and btc-e domain this now notice line, same with liberty reserve, case problem law in USA, because several member from USA

Easy, because if you hadn't got the funds on it, you couldn't place the order.

And if you would exchange in crypto currency, well, very simple, then you are exchanging crypto currency that (in this moment) have nothing to do with fiat, f. ex. you are exchanging an apple for an egg.

Exchange fiat <-> crypto only possibly if there is fiat in the system. The exchange is not converting your coins into fiat but displaying buy/sell orders from people. How do you buy fiat by selling bitcoin on an exchange if there is no fiat sell order?

And also, you cannot "cash out" USD in EUR, you have to exchange it the same way. Nobody wants to sell EUR, e.g. no EUR sell order, then you cannot buy EUR with your USDs.

(Edited a lot, to fix buy/sell mistypes) 

...why?

As far as the exchange is concerned it only needs real 'FIAT' when it's transferred out to a bank account. Lets say I buy BTC in USD and then decide I want to cashout in Euros, how do you think that works? It would be a net loss to your 'zero sum' system. How they actually get real FIAT could be a combination of different things including exchanging BTC on other exchanges for FIAT.

Same could be said about me transferring BTC into BTCe and then pulling it out in USD. There is no way exchanges could function if their rates were based purely on how much FIAT they have on hand. People don't need to buy BTC with FIAT in order to use an exchange.

Why do you think Coinbase takes so long for withdrawls sometimes? They don't have a fort knox of gold on hand... or in our case USD.

You know how an exchange works, yes? For every buy order, there is fiat in the system. It is not some "internal" fiat, it is real money somebody put in the exchange.

I know it maybe wishful thinking, but, perhaps the BTC-e opps were smart enough to have back ups in case they got shut down.

when I dealth with them, it was always flawless and they had a really robust operation.

They don't seem like the kind of operation that did not have contingencies.

The question now is, even if they have some coins are they at all motivated to put up any kind of facility to let you get your coins back?

Yup... Pretty sure almost all of the volume was between their internal FIAT and BTC/LTC/ETC. IE if the FIAT never leaves the exchange it never is actually 'USD'. So you can have an exchange with another virtual currency which is FIAT, which was the case with BTCe.

Moving USD out of BTCe was a huge PITA, which is why I doubt it was never actually done or very rarely.


It's independent from market fluctuations. You can have a FIAT which is essentially just another crypto.

I 'held' FIAT on BTCe because of low rates to buy/sell (like .15%) and because it was generally a time proven exchange. I never moved USD off the exchange, only BTC.

Trading BTC/USD on Coinbase to your wallet is insanely expensive, it's like the same price as exchange to your bank account.

Because traders in a falling market want something they can shift to for wealth preservation. I do it all the time, but I don't deposit or withdrawal $USD. Most of the trade in an exchange like BTC-e is not in and out, it's just trade between currency pairs in their database, not wallets and bank accounts. Think of it as a casino, most of the trade volume is casino chips at the tables, not fiat in and out of the enterprise. The same chip might change hands a dozen times a day. BTC-e had some chips called USD doesn't mean they were USD.

But if there is no way for USD or EUR to exit the exchange, why will people want to hold it? That's the problem. The only option, then, is to cut the EUR markets and transition the USD markets to USDT. Maybe that's possible, but I'm not sure Bitfinex's parent company (who owns Tether) will want to deal with backing BTC-E at this point.