Topic: BTC endgame = Mega Miner controlling everything, BTC is not "trustless" - page 3. (Read 5404 times)

Good point. Can the bots be made good enough to do the job on really difficult captchas?

For example, the captcha could be made with parts of the captcha string located all over the captcha screen. There would be guiding numbers that suggest which captcha symbol would have to be typed next, the one in this block of the screen or the one in that block. The guiding numbers would change, randomly, each time a symbol was typed. This in addition to goofy looking symbols that bots would have a hard time reading or recognizing.

There is no Javascript here. We are open to anything that we can program. The devs would have a team designing new kinds of captcha types for the next version of CaptchaCoin. Users who felt that they had been discriminated against by fellow users, would be ready to point out flaws. Complicated captchas would slow down the whole process of typing in the symbols. This would keep CaptchaCoin inflation from rising too fast.

CaptchaCoin is an idea. If it's not practical, it will fall by the wayside. But don't be surprised...

They do have bots that solve captchas at a pretty reliable rate.

Well, technically the number could be anything. Could be 99.9999% of miners have to agree and "blah" happens...

I don't really see the point of it being 50% or higher to begin with, it would be much harder to exact a higher percentage attack, like say a 71% attack(at least right now it would be almost impossible). If people are serious about BTC staying around it needs to have a super majority agree on it like 70% to 80%, no more 50% agreement on things is what I say.

In the end there won't be a BTC Guild and a "blah blah" Guild. It will be a few really powerful Super Miner Guilds left, then you would really need to set the bar higher. Only guess what? if there is 3 miners left lets say who are mega size. For example.

Miner A has 65%
Miner B has 30%
Miner C has 5%

So in this example of the near future or a few years away future, Miner A is control now. Guess what? Everyone agrees to raise the threshold to 71% now, but guess what? Miner A does not accept the change so it does not go through.

What happens if Miner B and C accept the change? Chaos. Now two miners are in control.

Miner B now has about 85% of total miner power
Miner C now has 15% of total miner power.

Miner B controls the network now instead of Miner A, threshold is again voted to be raised to a 91% attack is now needed to double spend...

See how the problem just keeps going with stupid things like this? It needs to be changed to a higher number NOW before the Miners become a more powerful oligopoly.


Miners don't always have to act in the best interests of anyone... Look at MTGOX and other countless examples. Hacking can easily ruin miners too, why not?

Perhaps, a little. The idea in CaptchaCoin is to bypass the mining machines altogether, and use people labor instead. Now, I wouldn't join a mining pool with captchaCoin, unless I were a slow typist. But we'd ALL be slow typists in a pool, because fast typists would make more coins typing on their own.

This is a PEOPLE JOB, not a machine-used mining gimmick. All it does is to free up employment for multitudes of BitcoinTalkers who don't have anything better to do than sit around and wait for Bitcoin to do something big. With CaptchaCoin, they can sit around and earn money by working, all the while keeping an eye on what is happening to Bitcoin.

While you are guaranteed to doublespend with 51%, you can sometimes successfully doublespend even with less % hashrate (under 50%), the less you have, the lower the chance though

There are plenty of threads that reference this, I am not paid to help you find information. I will let you find it yourself, knowledge is power.

You will end up with either Hashcash or Bitcoin depending on the algorithm used to create the Captchas.

Lets see here, change the variable. Wow shockingly hard to comprehend right?

I am not sure, are you like new here and just bought your account from someone else to talk down to people about basic things? Just curious.

The creation of the captchas would, of course, be built into the program. There would always be those few who would believe in it, just as every altcoin has its believers. So, once created, it would grow at least for awhile. I'd do it just for fun, but I am not that big of a programmer.

Somebody, with additional ideas just might think of and add the thing that would make CaptchaCoin have the flair that would grab the whole Bitcoin community, and later, the world.

Why 70%?  I would turn it up to 110% myself.

Although I see some problems there, it's worth discussing.

But not here, you should create another thread.

But is it possible to recognize a block mined by a P2Pool?

That's the first step before even start to discuss anything about this.

I'm writing this off the top, so you are going to be able to find all kinds of flaws in this idea, but here goes.

How about a new crypto called CaptchaCoin, that starts out with zero coins in it. There is no mining as we know it. Rather, the mining end is set up like a captcha, yet a captcha with extremely random settings, so that it is as close to TRUE random as possible.

It would work like this:
1. You launch the CaptchaCoin program on your computer;
2. You go to the CAPTCHA screen in the program;
3. You type in the long captcha that you read on the screen;
4. If you typed it correctly, when you hit ENTER, you get a coin;
5. A new captch pops up on your screen, and you start typing again;
6. Coins are loaded into the non-Bitcoin blockchain, in Bitcoin fashion, added to your CaptchaCoin address, upon Internet connection.

If you want to become rich, you need to learn how to type faster, and how to talk friends and family into working with you on the captcha project. Your kids can type while you are at work, and you give them a percentage.

100% inflation is automatically built in, because the more coins are captcha/created, the less all of them are worth. The more people who work the program, the less your coins are worth. Because of this, you need to trade your coins off frequently/regularly for gold, or land, or cars, or fiat, or whatever, just so there won't be loss due to the built-in inflation.

This kind of coin would cause everyone in the world to be in competition with everyone else. Competition makes for popularity and fame. Might even be able to make audio captchas for the deaf. Because it is easy to mine, there would be no end to the numbers of people who would want to join in. Yet the captchas could be built in such a way that it would absolutely take a human to analyze them. Government couldn't stop it in any way, because people would run right around ALL governmental authority, one way or another.

There would be no advantage to storing (hoarding) the coins. Their value would drop continually if you didn't trade them for real products of one sort or other. Bitcoin wouldn't die, at least not right away. So, CaptchaCoins could be traded for bitcoins.

Soon fiat would be entirely out of business. Trade would abound because of the inflation factor. The whole world picture would change.

Now, some of you thinkers and gurus, take this idea and work out the flaws, and program it into reality. But do it fast, because if you don't, somebody else will beat you to it.



EDIT: Hey, it took Satoshi years to develop Bitcoin into a working operation. He needed the help of the devs. Something like CaptchaCoin won't happen overnight, even though it could be built much faster than Bitcoin, because we have the Bitcoin pattern to follow.

The problem isn't the mining pools, it is user error. It is a special case where high risk behavior pushes the technology too far. It was entirely preventable if gamblers were willing to wait for additional confirmations.

You were given the answer to this by kendog77 just a few posts ago. It's not a variable in the code, it is an inviolable law of mathematics - 50% is half, so any more than 50% (we shorthand it as 51%) is more than half.

If one has the majority of the hashing power, then probabilistically, one will solve the majority of blocks. I.e. One will solve more blocks than the rest of the network combined.

If one is guaranteed to solve more blocks than the rest of the network combined, one may generate a blockchain which is longer than any other blockchain.

One may:
- spend a certain coin on the 'public' chain, then;
- create  transaction 'spending' the same coin in a transaction not broadcast to the network, then;
- mine privately using that second transaction instead of the first.
When one's chain is longer than the public chain (again, more than half the hash power guarantees this will happen eventually), one releases the private chain. As the previously private chain is longer than the initial chain, the entire network 'snaps' to your new longer chain - with the second spending of that coin.

The new longer chain has not the first spending of that coin, but rather the second spend of that coin.

The net effect is that the recipient of the first 'spend' of the coin has that coin ripped from his wallet, and you get double value for that coin - you have been on the buying end of two transactions involving the same coin.

IOW, it is '51%' because that is more than half.

For someone generating so much heat on this issue, it is kind of funny that this illumination is needed.

If a pool having 51% + has negative aspect on the price, why would the pool to continue to operate in such a manor ? it sounds counter productive.

Can u plz give us a few examples of double spends that GHash.IO has made in recent past ?

I am rarely ever on here reading anything, yet I have read posts that show it was over 51%. They are not that hard to find. Due diligence sir. I am not paid to educate you, unless you want to send me some BTC then I will.

The issue with doing this is that you are acting like a government, propping up others and giving other an incentive but not giving all the incentive. BTC isn't supposed to act like that.