BTC: Large upward move is emminent - page 2.

wxa7115

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

There are great signs that BTC will experience a large boost very shortly.

If you have been watching the recent financial markets you are certainly aware of the large downtrend in the Dow Jones. Just a comparison: one percentage point drop in the dow jones corresponds to a loss of about 70bn in market capitalization. And over the last few days, the Dow is down by 10%.

And in the meantime, BTC has been ... going up.

Until now, serious investors were happy riding the upward trend in the normal financial markets. With the recent downturn, investors will be looking for alternative assets to invest in. BTC in particular and crypto-markets in particular will be noticed as uncorrelated to the normal financial markets and thus as an interesting asset class for diversification purposes.

Particularly if the Dow contains dropping while BTC remaining flat or increasing, more and more traditional investors will move their money into the crypto markets. When this happens the new money will significantly push up the price of BTC.

Great times ahead!

While we will be getting bigger investments in the future I doubt this will be a reason, after all, if that turns out to be true what do you think wall street investors are going to think of the market of cryptocurrencies that recently went down about 60% in value? Only those willing to take the risk will consider bitcoin and other alts in the top, most wall street investors will decide, at least for now, to pass on the opportunity thinking the risks are too great.

Lock00Live

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I think the value of the current bitcoin is just a wave in the chart so technical analysis. Bitcoin may fall back to $ 5k to give altcoin the opportunity to grow so if you invest, I recommend not investing in bitcoin at this time. You can sell USDT to wait for lower bitcoin to buy back then use the bitcoin bought to buy on the good altcoin. I am using this way to invest in times of volatile market.

BitHodler

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Quote from: Bolt Brownie on February 10, 2018, 01:49:13 PM

But I think that before regulations gets done, and bitcoin ETFs arrive, we will not be seeing institutional investors putting money into bitcoin.

Institutions are already active on GDAX and Gemini (could be on other exchanges as well, but can't say anything about that myself). It mainly depends on where the institutions are located in terms of them being allowed to enter legally.

It then depends on how an exchange has licensed itself in various aspects. If everything is in line according to the law in a specific country or state, which is the case for GDAX and Gemini, then they can enter at free will.

From there the institutions themselves have to look at how an investment such as Bitcoin fits in their relatively low risk profile portfolio. I would assume that they allocate only an extremely small amount to be invested in Bitcoin.

We all know that Bitcoin in general isn't a low risk asset to invest in at all, especially for those who don't care about Bitcoin itself, but just look to benefit from its massive upwards potential.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 10, 2018, 12:49:46 PM

Quote from: Hell-raiser on February 10, 2018, 12:12:48 PM

Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 04:08:00 PM

Quote from: Hell-raiser on February 09, 2018, 03:52:12 PM

...
This will likely turn out to be just an instance of wishful thinking. If markets continue to crash, crypto will get affected too and in the negative way obviously. The recent Bitcoin crash from $9,000 to $6,000 may have been caused by the same forces which put other markets under fire so it will suffer as well. People will run for dollars as well as bonds and likely for gold too. Bitcoin is just too speculative to be used as a safe haven in this case.

Well, yes. There is of course a modicum of wishful thinking in it. However, I did not notice a positive correlation between stock market and crypto markets. If there is a correlation at all, it might even be negative, thus supporting the diversification argument (there are not enough severe downturns in the stock market yet to show the relationship with high statistical significance)

The correlation you are talking about would be hard to find, even if there was one. Bitcoin and crypto in general are pretty volatile on their own. A couple of whales can easily send Bitcoin spiraling down despite stock markets surging and vice versa. Also, I can see reasons why there in fact may be positive correlation between stock market and crypto markets, at least in respect to rising somewhat in parallel, but I don't see why there should be negative correlation, supporting the so-called diversification argument. Bitcoin is risky as hell, and other crypros are even riskier than that.

Statistical correlation just requires the time series. Correlation does not mean causation, of course.

If people move out of the stock market into bond markets, then that means that when stocks go down and bonds go up, leading to negative correlation. If one makes the assumption that a similar (although very much smaller) effect takes place between stocks and crytos that would explain a negative correlation.

And btw, the diversification argument just requires a low maybe 0 correlation, not a negative one.

Zero correlation means there is no correlation, which is unlikely because people who are engaged in cryptoinvestments are more often than not investing in stock, bond, and currency markets too, though the opposite is not necessarily true. That said, it is not just statistical relationship, it should be a causal relationship due to underlying factors involved. If people look into crypto as a safe haven, that would be a causal relationship since one thing, here it is a stock market crash, is responsible for another, in this case running into cryptoassets.

aardvark15

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I agree that as the stock market drops, investors will be looking for a safer investment like gold and possibly Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. I think the cryptocurrency crash and the stock market correction at the same time is more of a coincidence because both had reached high values at the same time. I think the cryptocurrency correction will be quicker as people are still learning about Bitcoin and beginning to invest.

Bolt Brownie

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That could be true but I don't think it will happen right now. Simply because it's still not easy for institutional investors to come into crypto. There is no way they will use exchanges that don't offer them the tools they like, and don't seem reliable, in terms of security and internet connection. We cope with the lag we normally face during peak times, and we never keep to much money in exchanges because we know they can be hacked.

Not saying that your suggestion is wrong, and I actually agree with it. But I think that before regulations gets done, and bitcoin ETFs arrive, we will not be seeing institutional investors putting money into bitcoin.

joebrook

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

There are great signs that BTC will experience a large boost very shortly.

If you have been watching the recent financial markets you are certainly aware of the large downtrend in the Dow Jones. Just a comparison: one percentage point drop in the dow jones corresponds to a loss of about 70bn in market capitalization. And over the last few days, the Dow is down by 10%.

And in the meantime, BTC has been ... going up.

Until now, serious investors were happy riding the upward trend in the normal financial markets. With the recent downturn, investors will be looking for alternative assets to invest in. BTC in particular and crypto-markets in particular will be noticed as uncorrelated to the normal financial markets and thus as an interesting asset class for diversification purposes.

Particularly if the Dow contains dropping while BTC remaining flat or increasing, more and more traditional investors will move their money into the crypto markets. When this happens the new money will significantly push up the price of BTC.

Great times ahead!

So the current stock market plummeting is very good for Bitcoin because some of the investors there are going dump them and exchange them for Bitcoins and when that happens our market is going to go even higher once more.

pvk444

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Quote from: malikusama on February 10, 2018, 12:13:58 PM

I object, investors of stock market are of different mentality and psyche, they still don't trust cryptos for big investment because of high uncertainty and high volatility.
So you can't relate uptrend and downtrend of Dow with the crypto market, may be there are few number of investors who are shifting towards the digital currencies but still the ratio is too low.

Trust is of course the challenge here. The fact that these markets are unrelated are actually good. In an expected down-market investors are reshuffling their asset allocations in their portfolio to increase their diversification. Particularly in a down turn economy and low interest scenario, investors are looking at alternative assets, including for instance art.

My original point was meant to say that a short time ago, investors didn't even know of cryptos as a potential alternative asset class. Since even mainstream media started to talk about cryptos, investors take notice.

Yes, the volatility and the related trust issue is a problem at present. So I am not expecting masses of traditional investors flocking to crypto. But I still believe, that even if just a very small percent start using cryptos for diversifying their portfolios, it could mean a huge increase for BTC.

Now, the market down turn might not be significant enough or prolonged enough, and the economic environment is not that bad either, to notice anything. But who know?

pvk444

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Quote from: Hell-raiser on February 10, 2018, 12:12:48 PM

Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 04:08:00 PM

Quote from: Hell-raiser on February 09, 2018, 03:52:12 PM

...
This will likely turn out to be just an instance of wishful thinking. If markets continue to crash, crypto will get affected too and in the negative way obviously. The recent Bitcoin crash from $9,000 to $6,000 may have been caused by the same forces which put other markets under fire so it will suffer as well. People will run for dollars as well as bonds and likely for gold too. Bitcoin is just too speculative to be used as a safe haven in this case.

Well, yes. There is of course a modicum of wishful thinking in it. However, I did not notice a positive correlation between stock market and crypto markets. If there is a correlation at all, it might even be negative, thus supporting the diversification argument (there are not enough severe downturns in the stock market yet to show the relationship with high statistical significance)

The correlation you are talking about would be hard to find, even if there was one. Bitcoin and crypto in general are pretty volatile on their own. A couple of whales can easily send Bitcoin spiraling down despite stock markets surging and vice versa. Also, I can see reasons why there in fact may be positive correlation between stock market and crypto markets, at least in respect to rising somewhat in parallel, but I don't see why there should be negative correlation, supporting the so-called diversification argument. Bitcoin is risky as hell, and other crypros are even riskier than that.

Statistical correlation just requires the time series. Correlation does not mean causation, of course.

If people move out of the stock market into bond markets, then that means that when stocks go down and bonds go up, leading to negative correlation. If one makes the assumption that a similar (although very much smaller) effect takes place between stocks and crytos that would explain a negative correlation.

And btw, the diversification argument just requires a low maybe 0 correlation, not a negative one.

jmlona

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 03:19:30 PM

Quote from: jmlona on February 09, 2018, 03:09:53 PM

Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

There are great signs that BTC will experience a large boost very shortly.

If you have been watching the recent financial markets you are certainly aware of the large downtrend in the Dow Jones. Just a comparison: one percentage point drop in the dow jones corresponds to a loss of about 70bn in market capitalization. And over the last few days, the Dow is down by 10%.

And in the meantime, BTC has been ... going up.

Until now, serious investors were happy riding the upward trend in the normal financial markets. With the recent downturn, investors will be looking for alternative assets to invest in. BTC in particular and crypto-markets in particular will be noticed as uncorrelated to the normal financial markets and thus as an interesting asset class for diversification purposes.

Particularly if the Dow contains dropping while BTC remaining flat or increasing, more and more traditional investors will move their money into the crypto markets. When this happens the new money will significantly push up the price of BTC.

Great times ahead!

I'm sure some money will flow out of the stock markets and in to the crypto market but I doubt it will be all that much. Lots of money is flowing out of the Dow and other similar indexes or stocks in general and in to safer assets such as government bonds, this is because it's expected that the FED will increase interest rates more than was initially anticipated in the next year.

Two years ago, I would have agreed with you. Crypto's in general and BTC in particular became however massivly more popular (or at least more widely known) over the last 24 months. Thus, many more investors have at least some awareness of the crypto market. Now, that the Dow is going down investors are more incentivized to look at alternatives. I am not saying the usual stock - bond movements will be replaced by a stock - crypto movement (would be great, but I'm not that naive). But cryptos offer now a real choice.

I just don't see that it will be a significant portion. I don't feel also like the money will flow following a big crash, the logic doesn't add up. Most money in stocks is from experienced traders and they'll know the age-old advice to buy low and sell high. Of course the Dow could fall further but to me it doesn't seem like the best of times to sell and get out. I think if money is going to flow in to crypto from stocks it will be irrespective of any such crash.

malikusama

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I object, investors of stock market are of different mentality and psyche, they still don't trust cryptos for big investment because of high uncertainty and high volatility.
So you can't relate uptrend and downtrend of Dow with the crypto market, may be there are few number of investors who are shifting towards the digital currencies but still the ratio is too low.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 04:08:00 PM

Quote from: Hell-raiser on February 09, 2018, 03:52:12 PM

...
This will likely turn out to be just an instance of wishful thinking. If markets continue to crash, crypto will get affected too and in the negative way obviously. The recent Bitcoin crash from $9,000 to $6,000 may have been caused by the same forces which put other markets under fire so it will suffer as well. People will run for dollars as well as bonds and likely for gold too. Bitcoin is just too speculative to be used as a safe haven in this case.

Well, yes. There is of course a modicum of wishful thinking in it. However, I did not notice a positive correlation between stock market and crypto markets. If there is a correlation at all, it might even be negative, thus supporting the diversification argument (there are not enough severe downturns in the stock market yet to show the relationship with high statistical significance)

The correlation you are talking about would be hard to find, even if there was one. Bitcoin and crypto in general are pretty volatile on their own. A couple of whales can easily send Bitcoin spiraling down despite stock markets surging and vice versa. Also, I can see reasons why there in fact may be positive correlation between stock market and crypto markets, at least in respect to rising somewhat in parallel, but I don't see why there should be negative correlation, supporting the so-called diversification argument. Bitcoin is risky as hell, and other crypros are even riskier than that.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

If you have been watching the recent financial markets you are certainly aware of the large downtrend in the Dow Jones. Just a comparison: one percentage point drop in the dow jones corresponds to a loss of about 70bn in market capitalization. And over the last few days, the Dow is down by 10%.

I haven't seen anyone try to explain why the DOW is dropping.

With a price correction that massive, one might suspect there is an important and potentially pivotal reasoning behind it. Possibly resistance was too high and there wasn't enough support. Possibly concerns over the health of china's economy on its recent report triggered a panic sell off. Moody's threatening to downgrade US credit, due to concerns over the deficit, could also have played a role. Maybe I have a tendency to needlessly complicate things but it seems to me that there could be enough concern for the DOW decline to be possibly be justified.

I would be very interested to see someone respond to these points as it seems to me that people avoid addressing potential reasons for the DOW's latest drop. No need to avoid the topic, it should be educational and everyone should learn something. I'll definitely learn something even if every point I tried to make about it is 100% wrong.

magneto

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

There are great signs that BTC will experience a large boost very shortly.

If you have been watching the recent financial markets you are certainly aware of the large downtrend in the Dow Jones. Just a comparison: one percentage point drop in the dow jones corresponds to a loss of about 70bn in market capitalization. And over the last few days, the Dow is down by 10%.

And in the meantime, BTC has been ... going up.

Until now, serious investors were happy riding the upward trend in the normal financial markets. With the recent downturn, investors will be looking for alternative assets to invest in. BTC in particular and crypto-markets in particular will be noticed as uncorrelated to the normal financial markets and thus as an interesting asset class for diversification purposes.

Particularly if the Dow contains dropping while BTC remaining flat or increasing, more and more traditional investors will move their money into the crypto markets. When this happens the new money will significantly push up the price of BTC.

Great times ahead!

It makes no sense for people to cash out their stocks and then invest in BTC, when their stocks are dropping and bitcoin's rallying already. It's just a stupid decision to make in my opinion, only a stock chaser does that sort of things.

I wouldn't be this complacent about the current price yet. It's going up for sure, and I do think that it will continue to go up to $10k+, but all time high is going to be hard to come by at the moment.

We may see bitcoin plummet after a last bounce, obviously I hope that it's not the case and we do settle somewhere above $10k since I am long with bitcoin. But markets are unpredictable as hell. Nobody would have predicted this current drop.

Beerwizzard

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

If you have been watching the recent financial markets you are certainly aware of the large downtrend in the Dow Jones. Just a comparison: one percentage point drop in the dow jones corresponds to a loss of about 70bn in market capitalization. And over the last few days, the Dow is down by 10%.

And 1$ drop of BTC is about 16,85$ mln loss for the BTC market cap which is stoll pretty much for such a small market but this numbers don't show anything.

Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

And in the meantime, BTC has been ... going up.

It have nothing in common with the Dow drop.

Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

Until now, serious investors were happy riding the upward trend in the normal financial markets. With the recent downturn, investors will be looking for alternative assets to invest in. BTC in particular and crypto-markets in particular will be noticed as uncorrelated to the normal financial markets and thus as an interesting asset class for diversification purposes.

Particularly if the Dow contains dropping while BTC remaining flat or increasing, more and more traditional investors will move their money into the crypto markets. When this happens the new money will significantly push up the price of BTC.

Great times ahead!

People that invested in Dow Jones are more likely to invest in traditional assets. Obligations, stocks, precious metals, anything but not cryptocurrencies and the things will change only when US banks will remove crypto related restrictions. If at least 1% out of the 10% that were lost by Dow could flow into cryptocurrencies it could definetely cause a significant price increase and obviously couldn't be skipped by medias. For now that looks more like a conspiracy theory.

Quote from: Ilegendph on February 09, 2018, 11:56:05 PM

Quote from: Baofeng on February 09, 2018, 07:35:34 PM

Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

I don't know why stocks are going down though, but as least getting investors to shift their funds to crypto will be a good thing for us.

I believe that investors realize that investing in cryptocurrency does not limit them because its the whole world can invest into it unlike stocks which is limited to the area of operation like countries and states. I hope that this trend continue because it is a good signs for us, the early adaptors of cryptocurrency.

It does, especially traditional investors. While banks have restrictions on cryptocurrencies it becomes harder to take your money back and makes cryptocurrensies less attractive.

Ilegendph

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Quote from: Baofeng on February 09, 2018, 07:35:34 PM

Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

I don't know why stocks are going down though, but as least getting investors to shift their funds to crypto will be a good thing for us.

I believe that investors realize that investing in cryptocurrency does not limit them because its the whole world can invest into it unlike stocks which is limited to the area of operation like countries and states. I hope that this trend continue because it is a good signs for us, the early adaptors of cryptocurrency.

LoudA__

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More like the large of upward movement of bitcoin price is inevitable. It always happen and it is really inevitable for bitcoin not to make any movement about the pumps that will happen. HODL because we are up for the moon.

andrei56

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Quote from: dothebeats on February 09, 2018, 05:22:45 PM

Traditional investors are aware that crypto has already garnered massive interest from all over the world, and that means more money for them if they entered at the right time. The hundreds of billions of dollars wiped out of cryptospace in a span of a month *could* be regained if the money from the Dow continues to be pulled off and move it to crypto, and smart investors knew that the stocks aren't the best place to put their money in given the current market conditions. It seems that the most viable options they have right now are bitcoin and gold, but I'm not so sure about the latter, and the former being a likely option given its steal price.

Some complain that some people are in bitcoin only for the money, but those that are investing in stocks are all in there for the money if bitcoin investing becomes popular we are going to see a massive amount of money being invested in bitcoin in the next years, after all if stocks give single digit profits and bitcoin gives more than that then investors will choose bitcoin.

ProofOfLambo

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Quote from: Nellayar on February 09, 2018, 04:30:43 PM

I am not aware of Dow Jones but I heard it from my colleagues. But as what I've noticed in the topic I consider Dow as one of the factor that affects in the market prices. It also affects the volatility of bitcoin in the past few years.

At this moment, the cryto market is absolutely unlinked to the dow, nikkey, footsie nor any other. In fact, it is not linked to any real economic valuation, and that is not good.

ProofOfLambo

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Quote from: pvk444 on February 09, 2018, 02:58:15 PM

There are great signs that BTC will experience a large boost very shortly.

If you have been watching the recent financial markets you are certainly aware of the large downtrend in the Dow Jones. Just a comparison: one percentage point drop in the dow jones corresponds to a loss of about 70bn in market capitalization. And over the last few days, the Dow is down by 10%.

And in the meantime, BTC has been ... going up.

Until now, serious investors were happy riding the upward trend in the normal financial markets. With the recent downturn, investors will be looking for alternative assets to invest in. BTC in particular and crypto-markets in particular will be noticed as uncorrelated to the normal financial markets and thus as an interesting asset class for diversification purposes.

Particularly if the Dow contains dropping while BTC remaining flat or increasing, more and more traditional investors will move their money into the crypto markets. When this happens the new money will significantly push up the price of BTC.

Great times ahead!

I have seen the fractals from other previous falls. I think it would be much better to have a reasonable growth supported by real nes instead of these rollercoaster.

Topic: BTC: Large upward move is emminent - page 2. (Read 390 times)