Topic: [BTC-TC and BF] MININGCO.ETF - Closed - page 15. (Read 48246 times)
The fund is performing nicely so far.
Total dividends of 0.11987888 (management fee included) will be paid this week.
This week, All underlying assets remained relatively stable, accept for Nasty Fans which has jumped to an average of .32 this week (from .29).
This has caused the NAV per share to increase to BTC0.58.
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
The recent difficulty increase has been caused by the lucky few who are already mining with their ASIC devices. This has continued to hurt our dividend income.
It all comes down to when the ASICs arrive.
MiningCo.ETF is available on BTCT.co and as a pass-through on BitFunder.
This week, All underlying assets remained relatively stable, accept for Nasty Fans which has jumped to an average of .32 this week (from .29).
This has caused the NAV per share to increase to BTC0.58.
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
The recent difficulty increase has been caused by the lucky few who are already mining with their ASIC devices. This has continued to hurt our dividend income.
It all comes down to when the ASICs arrive.
MiningCo.ETF is available on BTCT.co and as a pass-through on BitFunder.
Congnative lowered their dividend by 50%, and ~20% of the fund in made up of that 1 asset, so it is reflective.
This has decreased the overall dividend that the fund pays. But at the same time, this will allow Cognitive to purchase new hashing power in the future. Making sure that they will not continue to lose overall hashing power and the entire network grows.
While true, it is not clear to me how the new non-voting shares help current holders with this reduction. I see it as a double dip. I see now as a time to liquidate Congnative while it has some value, as the non-voting shares will further dillute the float when ASIC units come online. Add in the 50% reduction to be used for the same purpose as the non-voting shares which become voting shares when ASIC units are purchased.
One thing that scares me:
The dividends are getting lower in each pay out. At the current level of dividends it represents a 7% yearly which seems very low. I know that in the future this will depend of the rentability of the underlying assets, which relys in serveral things like new mining hardware, difficulty, BTC/$ parity etc...
The dividends are getting lower in each pay out. At the current level of dividends it represents a 7% yearly which seems very low. I know that in the future this will depend of the rentability of the underlying assets, which relys in serveral things like new mining hardware, difficulty, BTC/$ parity etc...
You are correct. Dividends have continued to decrease. Let me explain...
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
Just about all companies are holding off on purchasing new equipment, except for ASIC devices. Until ASIC devices are in the hands of mining companies, dividends from them will continue to wane.
Just about all companies are holding off on purchasing new equipment, except for ASIC devices. Until ASIC devices are in the hands of mining companies, dividends from them will continue to wane.
All the mining companies in the fund have ASIC devices on order. Since ASCIMINER and a few other lucky individuals already have ASIC devices in their hands, dividends from the underlying companies will continue to decrease. Once the ASIC devices are in the hand of the mining companies, our dividends will increase.
Do you have any prediction about the rentability of the fund in the next 12 months or so ?
No.But we can look at it this way:
Mining dividends are always based on how much of the total hashing power of the entire network the company has.
There are about 144 blocks mined per day... about 3600 BTC per day (at 25 per block). That's it. Even if there were a billion TH on the network, all that would be mined in a day is still about 3600 BTC.
If company X has 0.5% of the total hashing power, they make 18 BTC per day.. on average.
Since ASICMINER and a few other ASIC devices have increased the overall network hashing power while the mining companies' hash rate have stayed the same, the dividends are getting smaller. Because their hashing power--compared to the entire network is getting smaller.
Just as an example (not based on any calculations) now company X would have 0.15% of the total network hashing power and make only 5.4 BTC per day. Again this is just an example. I made no calculations.
Once the mining companies have their ASIC devices mining, their hashing power will once again increase and "take back" some of the overall hashing power that they lost.
Congnative lowered their dividend by 50%, and ~20% of the fund in made up of that 1 asset, so it is reflective.
This has decreased the overall dividend that the fund pays. But at the same time, this will allow Cognitive to purchase new hashing power in the future. Making sure that they will not continue to lose overall hashing power and the entire network grows.
I was looking to invest in some mining stuff and I think that doing it through this fund could be a nice option. I will give it a try.
BTW, I'm already a bitfunder user, I have some assets there and feel confident with the site. While opening an account in btctc should not be a big problem for me I would prefer using bitfunder right now. If I understood well, this have a penalty of 1% because of the bitfunder commisions. Am I right or it has any other penaltys among of that ?
BTW, I'm already a bitfunder user, I have some assets there and feel confident with the site. While opening an account in btctc should not be a big problem for me I would prefer using bitfunder right now. If I understood well, this have a penalty of 1% because of the bitfunder commisions. Am I right or it has any other penaltys among of that ?
Your are correct.
BitFunder has a pass-through, which I also operate. https://bitfunder.com/asset/MININGCO
The pass-through shares will be sold about 1% higher than MiningCo.ETF because BitFunder charges 1% fees to the seller of a share.
100% of MiningCo.ETF dividends will be paid to the pass-through shares less Bitcoin network transaction fees.
This is the problem with investing in mining companies for the *current* dividends when ASICs are here.
One thing that scares me:
The dividends are getting lower in each pay out. At the current level of dividends it represents a 7% yearly which seems very low. I know that in the future this will depend of the rentability of the underlying assets, which relys in serveral things like new mining hardware, difficulty, BTC/$ parity etc...
Do you have any prediction about the rentability of the fund in the next 12 months or so ?
The dividends are getting lower in each pay out. At the current level of dividends it represents a 7% yearly which seems very low. I know that in the future this will depend of the rentability of the underlying assets, which relys in serveral things like new mining hardware, difficulty, BTC/$ parity etc...
Do you have any prediction about the rentability of the fund in the next 12 months or so ?
Congnative lowered their dividend by 50%, and ~20% of the fund in made up of that 1 asset, so it is reflective.
One thing that scares me:
The dividends are getting lower in each pay out. At the current level of dividends it represents a 7% yearly which seems very low. I know that in the future this will depend of the rentability of the underlying assets, which relys in serveral things like new mining hardware, difficulty, BTC/$ parity etc...
Do you have any prediction about the rentability of the fund in the next 12 months or so ?
The dividends are getting lower in each pay out. At the current level of dividends it represents a 7% yearly which seems very low. I know that in the future this will depend of the rentability of the underlying assets, which relys in serveral things like new mining hardware, difficulty, BTC/$ parity etc...
Do you have any prediction about the rentability of the fund in the next 12 months or so ?
I was looking to invest in some mining stuff and I think that doing it through this fund could be a nice option. I will give it a try.
BTW, I'm already a bitfunder user, I have some assets there and feel confident with the site. While opening an account in btctc should not be a big problem for me I would prefer using bitfunder right now. If I understood well, this have a penalty of 1% because of the bitfunder commisions. Am I right or it has any other penaltys among of that ?
BTW, I'm already a bitfunder user, I have some assets there and feel confident with the site. While opening an account in btctc should not be a big problem for me I would prefer using bitfunder right now. If I understood well, this have a penalty of 1% because of the bitfunder commisions. Am I right or it has any other penaltys among of that ?
Total dividends of 0.12766327 (management fee included) will be paid this week.
This week, Cognitive had a noticeable dip in price as Garrett is restructuring the asset. A motion passed to retain 50% of Cognitive's dividends for future growth. This, however, reduces the dividends by 50% as well.
This has caused the NAV per share to lower to BTC0.57.
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
Cognitive's new growth fund is a good move. It will allow Cognitive to stay competitive and we should expect to see larger dividends in the long term.
ASICs, ASICs, ASICs, ASICs!
When, When, When, When?!?!
Sit tight everyone, the roller coaster is approaching the peak of the first hill.
MiningCo.ETF is available on BTCT.co and as a pass-through on BitFunder.
This week, Cognitive had a noticeable dip in price as Garrett is restructuring the asset. A motion passed to retain 50% of Cognitive's dividends for future growth. This, however, reduces the dividends by 50% as well.
This has caused the NAV per share to lower to BTC0.57.
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
Cognitive's new growth fund is a good move. It will allow Cognitive to stay competitive and we should expect to see larger dividends in the long term.
ASICs, ASICs, ASICs, ASICs!
When, When, When, When?!?!
Sit tight everyone, the roller coaster is approaching the peak of the first hill.
MiningCo.ETF is available on BTCT.co and as a pass-through on BitFunder.
Pass-through shares are now live on BitFunder.
Total dividends of 0.15498476 (management fee included) will be paid this week.
There was basically no price movement this week in the underlying assets. Dividends have continued to wane as the companies are investing in ASIC units that will arrive "soon."
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
With ASICMINER running tests and a few other ASIC devices popping up, everyone is waiting for the ASIC explosion to occur.
Fun fact: I wrote the word "ASIC" (including this one) 4 times in this post. (I don't count ASICMINER as that is the name of an asset.)
As mentioined earlier, I will start selling pass-through shares on BitFunder after the dividend is paid.
There was basically no price movement this week in the underlying assets. Dividends have continued to wane as the companies are investing in ASIC units that will arrive "soon."
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
With ASICMINER running tests and a few other ASIC devices popping up, everyone is waiting for the ASIC explosion to occur.
Fun fact: I wrote the word "ASIC" (including this one) 4 times in this post. (I don't count ASICMINER as that is the name of an asset.)
As mentioined earlier, I will start selling pass-through shares on BitFunder after the dividend is paid.
I am setting up a pass-through on BitFunder.
Here is what the pass-through asset summary looks like:
***
Pass-through to MININGCO.ETF on btct.co
Each share of this pass-through = 1 share of MININGCO.ETF on the Bitcoin Trading Corp ( https://btct.co/security/MININGCO.ETF )
Forum for this pass-through and MININGCO.ETF: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-tc-and-bf-miningcoetf-closed-134389
Assets held by MININGCO.ETF: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqLxDN0JzEUNdHdhandXeDQwTU13N2ZmbWxMMHNzeGc
FEES:
A pass-through share is priced at about 1% higher than the MININGCO.ETF share it represents. This fee covers the exchange fees associated with operating this pass-through. There are no other fees for the pass-through. 100% of dividends paid from the MININGCO.ETF less Bitcoin network transaction fees, will be paid to the pass-through.
The MININGCO.ETF fund has other fees. See the MININGCO.ETF asset details on Bitcoin Trading Corp for details.
Proof of shares owned:
After pass-through shares are sold, and equal number of MININGCO.ETF shares will be deposited. MININGCO.ETF shares for this pass-through are held in this account: https://btct.co/portfolio/frc9CQ==
***
Does this look good? Do I need to add or remove anything? Please let me know.
The pass-through shares will go up for sale "soon."
Here is what the pass-through asset summary looks like:
***
Pass-through to MININGCO.ETF on btct.co
Each share of this pass-through = 1 share of MININGCO.ETF on the Bitcoin Trading Corp ( https://btct.co/security/MININGCO.ETF )
Forum for this pass-through and MININGCO.ETF: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-tc-and-bf-miningcoetf-closed-134389
Assets held by MININGCO.ETF: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqLxDN0JzEUNdHdhandXeDQwTU13N2ZmbWxMMHNzeGc
FEES:
A pass-through share is priced at about 1% higher than the MININGCO.ETF share it represents. This fee covers the exchange fees associated with operating this pass-through. There are no other fees for the pass-through. 100% of dividends paid from the MININGCO.ETF less Bitcoin network transaction fees, will be paid to the pass-through.
The MININGCO.ETF fund has other fees. See the MININGCO.ETF asset details on Bitcoin Trading Corp for details.
Proof of shares owned:
After pass-through shares are sold, and equal number of MININGCO.ETF shares will be deposited. MININGCO.ETF shares for this pass-through are held in this account: https://btct.co/portfolio/frc9CQ==
***
Does this look good? Do I need to add or remove anything? Please let me know.
The pass-through shares will go up for sale "soon."
As much as I like BitFunder, setting it as a passthrough seems like the best solution.
Setting up the ETF as a pass through is the most appropriate way IMO.
Total dividends of 0.16211835 (management fee included) will be paid this week.
COGNITIVE has rebounded from it's earlier low and all the other underlying assets have also improved slightly. GMP is still at 0.6 BTC.
This has increased the NAV per share to BTC0.59
I am still interested in comments on bringing the fund to BitFunder.
Should it be a pass-through? Or should I just sell shares there and include them as part of the total assets? All assets are kept on the spreadsheet.
I think it will be much easier to distribute dividends if the Bitfunder asset were a pass through.
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
GMP's high price is due to Avalon delivering first. But when other ASIC companies release, I fear that the price of GMP will "re-normalize."
Expect high volatility until every company has all their ASIC devices happily hashing away.
COGNITIVE has rebounded from it's earlier low and all the other underlying assets have also improved slightly. GMP is still at 0.6 BTC.
This has increased the NAV per share to BTC0.59
I am still interested in comments on bringing the fund to BitFunder.
Should it be a pass-through? Or should I just sell shares there and include them as part of the total assets? All assets are kept on the spreadsheet.
I think it will be much easier to distribute dividends if the Bitfunder asset were a pass through.
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
GMP's high price is due to Avalon delivering first. But when other ASIC companies release, I fear that the price of GMP will "re-normalize."
Expect high volatility until every company has all their ASIC devices happily hashing away.
It looks like bASIC-MINING might be going with Avalon as well.
Our strategy would be best described as hedging. One Avalon unit has been ordered as they've proven they can ship a working ASIC product. bASIC-MINING continues to hold 395BTC in reserve and will continue to benefit from BTC's price appreciation vs fiat currency while lead times between ordering and receiving ASIC products shrinks.
Our position in GMP continues to rally as it will have Avalon ASICs devices mining "soon."
The price of Cognitive has slipped a bit but shows signs of improving.
Even with the Cognitive dip, GMP's rally has increased the fund's NAV per share to BTC0.57.
Once again, I have chosen to waive Management Fees this week. Thank you to all who have invested.
Total Dividends of 0.16649484 will be paid tomorrow night (USA time).
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
Just about all companies are holding off on purchasing new equipment, except for ASIC devices. Until ASIC devices are in the hands of mining companies, dividends from them will continue to wane.
Avalon ASIC devices have proven to meet their specs, so any mining company that can get their hands on one will have a tremendous advantage (hence GMP's rally). It looks like bASIC-MINING might be going with Avalon as well.
Also, the Price of BTC vs USD continues to be a huge factor. Order an ASIC device to early and you end up paying more BTC, but wait to long, and then you won't have an ASIC device when you need it.
The price of Cognitive has slipped a bit but shows signs of improving.
Even with the Cognitive dip, GMP's rally has increased the fund's NAV per share to BTC0.57.
Once again, I have chosen to waive Management Fees this week. Thank you to all who have invested.
Total Dividends of 0.16649484 will be paid tomorrow night (USA time).
Future Outlook - My guess as to what's to come.
Just about all companies are holding off on purchasing new equipment, except for ASIC devices. Until ASIC devices are in the hands of mining companies, dividends from them will continue to wane.
Avalon ASIC devices have proven to meet their specs, so any mining company that can get their hands on one will have a tremendous advantage (hence GMP's rally). It looks like bASIC-MINING might be going with Avalon as well.
Also, the Price of BTC vs USD continues to be a huge factor. Order an ASIC device to early and you end up paying more BTC, but wait to long, and then you won't have an ASIC device when you need it.
In RL an exchange has basically nothing to do with voting - voting would be handled by the company directly. One body needs to track and record the results of votes. If Carnth wants to do that off-site and record/publicise results somewhere else then that's fine
I would keep the result on the Asset spreadsheet. That would act as the definitive count for all votes across the exchanges.
So is this a good fund to invest in ?
I would say no not because of the person running it but because mining companies and mining bonds are a bad investment to begin with. Add further management fees for the ETF and it gets even worse. Ive yet to see any mining company make any real profit and the bitcoin difficulty will only grow in future. There are also very few quality investments in bitcoinland because investing in an asset thats based in USD is a short on bitcoin.
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