Topic: BTC vs. Monero - page 2. (Read 4266 times)

How many monero do I have? I guess someone can tie me up and beat me with a rubber hose, but they'll get my bank account info, cash, and precious metals, my wife, my dog..... There's no preventing this attack whatever coin you use. But as far as being a monero supporter marks me, who knows how many I have and if it would be worth the trouble to beat me? If you are worried, don't post on monero threads and that is that.

Now you are just being disingenuous. I have given you a clear and a specific example that you refuse to acknowledge and are deflecting by discussing blockchain analysis more.

Oh, like using richlists?

moneroblocks.eu/richlist

You are conflating separate attack vectors. You currently talk about, invest in, and promote Monero. This makes you a bit more interesting to focus upon the average bitcoin user. Just like how I am more of a target than the average fiat only user.

Unless a viewkey gives permissions, the addresses are stealth and have no link to a particular transaction or a user's balance information, so I'm not sure I get your point about possible addresses to investigate or how off-chain surveillance affects any user not involved....

Fair point, I will concede that is better as more privacy is default and transparency is optional.



No, You fail to recognize that scrutiny of an individual can happen off the blockchain and likely would be the principle way to target very private individuals. Notice how I suggest this could merely be a temporary dilemma because if large parts of society start using Monero or other cryptonote coins than the userbase gets diluted with normal and boring transactions. In the interim this ironic problem is a real concern. 



It certainly isn't erasing the taint when an investigator has a group of possible addresses to investigate just like with coinjoin/coinshuffle, especially if your possible txs are coming from a group of individuals really concerned about privacy.

Based on the current laws, Monero's viewkey allows you to be compliant--as for attention and scrutiny from a source you don't want looking at your finances (competitors, LEA, hackers, mobsters, your wife, husband, ect.) the whole point of a privacy coin is that extra scrutiny means extra time wasted by them. 

Cryptonote coins don't spread taint quicker, they erase it--that's the difference. I think it's chimerical that you think that the technology that exposes bitcoin's fungibility flaws wont keep pace with those that haven't yet fixed them--i guess the future is whatever you want it to be....

The mere act of accepting and transacting in a privacy coin could draw greater attention and scrutiny to the users(unless it became more mainstream than other cryptocoins that aren't mainly focused on privacy) . You are surrounding yourself with people who really want additional privacy and using tools specific for privacy. With Bitcoin you can live in both worlds where some of your addresses are transparent and attached to your identity, others aren't attached to your identity and pseudonymous, and others are extremely private and near anonymous. This gives better plausible deniability and associates you with a crowd of mixed users with different interests.

Fungibility is an interesting and subtle difference and a unique feature of crypto-note coins where they "spread" taint quicker between all active users and therefore newly minted crypto-note cryptocoins wouldn't fetch as much of a premium when the market grows to a larger level. I believe the slight premium fetched by virgin BTC is temporary and will decrease/evaporate as better privacy tools come online and more btc is tainted with higher volume of txs , especially when decentralized marketplaces(OpenBazaar) grow and high amounts of BTC gets exchanged with both legal and illegal businesses.

 

This makes no sense as bitcoin transactions that seek anonymity--mixers, coinjoin, ect.--would and are being tagged by bitcoin analytic software. The difference here is fungibility: 1 xmr = 1 xmr and 1 untainted btc = 1 untainted btc, but 1 tainted btc doesn't always equal 1 untainted btc--ask the guys who robbed evolution or ask block trail mint (they are selling freshly mined btc at a premium).

Monero has a viewkey if you want to be compliant, bitcoin has complicated measures to attempt to be non-compliant that may or may not be effective depending on who's watching.

Very odd comment that reflects a knee jerk reaction and projected assumptions. Please read my comments slowly this time and try not to respond to comments I did not make. When you are ready to rationally discuss the nuances of privacy and security let me know.

Wait. 
 
So your argument is that because bitcoin has more users and is more established, it is the winner by default?  And no one can ever overtake it because it is already bigger than the superior technology?  By this logic, bitcoin should give up because that same golden reasoning disproves the need for bitcoin entirely in favor of fiat. 
 
If a vastly superior technology can overcome an outdated system, then bitcoin can replaced fiat.  BUT, if you agree that a vastly superior technology can over an outdated system, then you have to either accept that Monero has a chance to overtake bitcoin or that Monero is not a vastly superior technology. 
 
You called it a slight improvement, but that's ridiculous.  Bitcoin offered us digital and trustless cash for the first time.  Many alts after that tried to offer privacy as well, but failed because privacy is really, really hard to do. 
 
But Monero is the first fairly launched blockchain to achieve the holy grail of cryptocurrency: digital, trustless, AND completely private.  In fact, it's so good that if you made it any more private (zerocash), you would risk creating security risks. 
 
Cryptonote isn't some gimmicky privacy trick like masternodes... it's a true decentralized way to handle crypto privacy, and we as humans have never done that before. 
 
Think about that: Monero represents a new paradigm for our entire species, and you would have me believe its just another alt coin?  No way.

Hey now, stop making fun of poor old Dash and their silly "Now with 50% more Gimmicky Features!" marketing.

That's just mean.  LOL.   

I understand fan of monero but you must accept this reality Bitcoin is original idea an monero is 50% copy of it . there are so many coins that are better than monero ... like dash and lite .....

This is why I used the term "arguably" . In one sense I agree with you and also why many BTC wallets are starting to incorporate privacy features by default. I would suggest crypto-note offers slightly superior privacy to the steathaddress/coinjoin combo found within darkwallet but the algo is only part of the privacy solution. The amount of users and transaction volume is critically important within a crypto-currency ecosystem to provide a high level of privacy and all alts have extremely small userbases. The fact that a user is using a "privacy focused" coin could also draw suspicion and extra focus vs bitcoin. The importance of a thriving market of local traders/ and non-KYC atms who will exchange BTC for cash is important. The diversity of wallets /implementations is also important in an ecosystem as it gives the users the ability to choose which one they feel is more secure and not backdoored.

I could go on at length about the complexity and nuances with security but you should get the picture....

 
  
Unless I can choose to mine specific dark bitcoins then bitcoin's privacy solutions fall far short of what is needed.  
  
As proof of what I'm saying, consider that merely using Tor and a proxy is enough to get you investigated by the NSA.  'Nuff said.  
  
Privacy can't be a Powerglove 32x Addon device.  
  
It has to be built in and fundamental to the currency.

This is a contradiction in terms. Better worded -

Monero and other crypotonote coins have some clever obfuscation tricks intrinsically built in.
Bitcoin allows the users to choose between full transparency or obfuscation techniques to get similar privacy as others (arguably) -coinjoin, coinshuffle, darkwallet, stealth addresses, mixers, ect...

This makes Bitcoin more versatile as many people may want full transparency(charity or nonprofit) and Crypto-note coins slightly more user friendly at achieving privacy(while darkwallet remains in alpha)
 

I saw that within hours of it being posted.

About 20 people sent me the link in late March LOL


~BCX~

because all talk of Monero is relegated to our ANN thread and the speculation thread, and we post so much in there that its easy to miss the bigger posts, so people try to make other Monero threads because they think something cool is happening and then people think its spam and then here we are.

How have I not seen this video?

don't feel sad what you are saying has some half-value, always research, but the way you are saying implies Monero has something to hide like *coff coff* a massive instamine and non-features like "Dash"/Darkcoin that also tried to steal the name of another cryptonote coin.