Topic: BTCjam - Any Thoughts or Experiances - page 13. (Read 57536 times)

If it's not easy for easy for you imagine how easy it is for your investors!

The way you are dodging your responsabilities is very disturbing.

You advise to invest small amounts into each loan and then you say you have nothing to do with collections.

So people from all over the world each with a $5 investment have to do all the work to make collections?


Basically what you saying here is that defaulting won't have any consequence at all.

I think a lending website that works on the concept of trusting nobody except reputable escrows. The amount of borrowers of your website who are con artists is staggering. In addition, I think a social lending website should be able to develop a mechanism that enables the sale of ownership of debts. Any information would be provided and a good hacker/detective can probably recover a purchased debt. There is far too much leverage for borrowers on BTCJam.

You might want to do some homework about how a company collects and the legal frameworks that need to be accomplished if you think this is an easy task. If it was easy, you'd see many companies doing this.

We are always looking into ways we can do this in the future. Not sure what you know about collections process but it is very difficult to do this as a company. There are many legal hurdles that we'd need to accomplish in order to do this and I'm not so sure we are going to be able to do this right now. Would we want to collect for you guys? Yes. Is it something that we think about and try to figure out? Yes. Is is something that gets done in a week? Sadly not.

Fascinating read, old chap. Care to share any proof to back up what you are saying? And I don't mean an "Appeal to Authority" type of logical fallacy like saying you have bigshots behind you, therefore you are legitimate. Sorry, that is simply a non-starter.

Has anyone done a count on what borrowers who have received what seem to be abnormally high credit ratings list as their need for the loan? Is there a pattern? Are there certain "investments" listed by borrowers that seem to result in them getting an abnormally high credit rating?

You missed the entire point of that post, but then I would not expect anything else from you. Since you were incapable of figuring it out, the point is this: Is it possible that BTCjam is funneling loans into "operations" of which they operate/have a cut of/ receive a kickback from ? BTCLend seems to have done this in a HUGE way, and now the new Bitlend operation may be doing the same as well.

Actually, no it's not. It's a very legitimate concern and will eventually come back to haunt you and your colleagues on your BS business practices.

The whole incentive structure at BTCJam is warped. Jam receives their fee once a loan is funded, paid for by the lenders.

BTCJam are not lenders. They provide a platform, and this fee is paid for by the lenders, not the borrowers. The way the fee structure is set up is such that Jam maximizes their profitability when borrowers have the most loans funded.  NOT when borrowers repay the loans. They have no interest in providing credible credit ratings, and to actually expend funds to do research to provide such ratings reduces BTCJam's profitability.

If you are a lender in BTCJam be well aware:

YOU ARE NOT OUTSOURCING ANY CREDIT RESEARCH OR RISK ASSESSMENT TO BTCJAM. THEIR FEE STRUCTURE IS SET UP SUCH THAT THEY GAIN THE MOST WHEN THE MOST LOANS ARE FUNDED. NOT WHEN LOANS ARE PAID OFF. THEY HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO GET AS MANY LOANS FUNDED AS POSSIBLE. TO ACTUALLY EXPEND RESOURCES TO PROVIDE ACCURATE CREDIT RATINGS OR SEE LOANS PAID OFF, LIKE ACTUAL LENDERS, REDUCES BTCJAM'S PROFITABILITY.

One day, someone smarter than you or myself is going to figure out a way to make this work, and they're going to put you and your ilk out on the fucking street.

EDIT TO ADD:

If you don't believe me, ask a BTCJam employee to enlighten you on how they apply credit ratings. See how far that question gets you.

Also, BTCSupport does not even attempt to dispute the claim from the poster who addressed such concerns. Maybe BTCSupport is right, the fee system does not make the business sustainable alone. But then, the question remains how do they make money or keep the business sustainable? They certainly do not profit from loans being paid off. Hmmm.

Can you provide more detail about this Im sure not sure I understand the question? Thanks

Are there patterns in what the borrowers who get inflated ratings are investing in? For example: If an investor states he is interested in a certain "Cloud Miner" (aka Ponzi- and ya I know there are maybe a couple of legit CMs) does he get his rating kicked up so it gets funded by auto investors?

actually you did not improve your System in the Past 6 Month. Examples wanted?

a) your Fee System is still ridic, you charge 5% for a Listing( it should be more 0.5%) and you are asking 5% for listing a Note (remember the Reason for Listing a Note is usaly that the Shit hits the Fan...)
b)Verify of Bank for non US Customer still not possible. (i mean how hard, can it to setup that?...)
c) the Reference System is a Joke, it should be much more influenced by the one who vouch for you, i mean 10 Facebook friend that give a reference for you, that mean nothing... someone who has a positive Rating in BTCjam or other lending site, that is a reference.

In general you are squezing the fruit, but there are very little improvements overall.

The credit rating system over there is laughable. Case in point, take a look at this loan: https://btcjam.com/listings/49296-credit-card-debt---trusted-borrower-

A- Rating on the loan given by BTCJam let's go through the specifics:

late on 12 of 20 payments on loans prior
0 equity in the site - 100% debt, no investments in other listings
this loan is by a multiple larger than any of his previous loans
borrower takes out a loan for credit card debt but does not verify a credit card. hmm, i wonder why that would be?
borrower's prior loans are for repayment of student debt, fix transmission on a car, and security deposit on a rental unit.

think about that last item for a second. assuming he's telling the truth, we know:
1. he has additional debt on top of his monstrous credit card debt,
2. his car is a pos,
3. and he doesn't own real property.

what does that mean?

he's judgment proof. i.e. it means he's broke, he has no assets. so, in the event that he does likely default, and a borrower wishes to try and recoup, they'll get nowhere, because the guy, while he might not be a scammer, clearly does not have the means to pay these loans off. if it goes to court, there will likely be nothing to liquidate to pay off the loans because he owns no assets. thus, judgment proof. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE.

these are your A- listings at BTCJam folks.

so, if you're on the conservative auto invest, these are the types of loans that btcjam puts you in. loans that that no reputable financial agency or lender would consider "A-."

so what happens when btcjam negligently (although much more likely, recklessly, worst case, fraudulently) assigns these A- ratings to people who would otherwise get laughed out of a loan office or bank?

some poor sap, with no chance of ever seeing a dime of this money should this loan go into default, kicks the guy 18+BTC. don't get me wrong, i'm not about protecting people from themselves. and what is that about a fool and their money? my sympathy is muted. however, if jam is going to post these ratings, they owe it to the people who use the site to back these ratings with some sort of credible criteria. to echo the point above, it's like they're throwing darts at a wall, although cynics might think that they're purposefully pumping up these ratings to get people to invest because listings for borrowers has dropped off precipitously. clearly the 18+BTC sap was not expecting this payment to be late as evidenced by his numerous consecutive comments on the listing. maybe if jam had put some thought into their credit rating it could have given some users a second thought before investing so much, when they are clearly not in a position to invest such amounts in what in reality is a very risky loan to a very risky borrower. but as it stands, there is no counterbalance to some of these so called respected lenders who post crap on the site like they know a borrower is trustworthy because they spew BS about being late on payments better than some other late borrower.

bottom line, if for whatever reason, you do feel the need to invest in BTCJam, NEVER trust a rating on BTCJam. rating methodology has not been released and likely never will because, apparently, there is none. NEVER trust other investors who invest in these loans. they have just as much knowledge, and very possibly, less expertise than you, and the folks at jam, at assessing risk.

peace.