Topic: [BTCTC][[ASICMINER-PT]] - Public trading of ASICMINER shares - page 26. (Read 74585 times)

You asked why I didn't do a fixed maintenance fee.  I didn't because then if ASICMINER doesn't pay out a dividend large enough to cover the maintenance fee, there wouldn't be anything left to pass through.

Leaving it percentage based, even when there is a very small dividend, guarantees the shareholders still get the majority of it.

Something like 1-2% is ok to run a simple passthrough for one stock but something that requires constant trading such as an ETF 5% is more reasonable. It depends how much work there is to run it.

I dont think the fee really matters because  other asicminer owners might run their own passthrough and compete.

So if the dividend is low when you have fewer shares, then people get more screwed?
i.e. if the dividend is low, and your taking 5% Vs. the dividend being low and you taking 0.5% for greater shares.

That does not seem very fair. The more people refuse to join due to whatever, the more the current holders get screwed. right?

Apparently you are concerned about the dividend payout amount. If we add that to the equation then perhaps the % should be based on dividend ranges instead?

Maybe I misunderstood something somewhere.  It wouldn't be a first.

Then if the dividend is low everyone gets screwed.  Didn't seem very fair.

Cheers.

Ahh I see.
If the goal is to make it a same fee regardless of the number of shares, why not just write it down as a flat fee? Sounds easier rather than dealing with tiers if your just making the tiers to that effect anyways.

Hard to explain I guess without putting together a pretty graph, but the tiered pricing goal was to make the passthru maintenance relatively constant.  The simplest example; if it's 1% at 5000 shares and 0.5% at 10000 shares, that means the maintenance fee is the same at 10000 shares as it is at 5000.

Cheers

I should think it would not be hard to get to 10,000 shares. G.ASICMINER-PT is not too far from it based on pending transfers and it sounds like you are already gaining momentum.
You say "I don't get how they can do do that." at 0% yet 0.5% would practically be the same as G.ASICMINER-PT compared to your 5% starting point. 90% decrease. Sounds contradictory.
Compared to how you believe things needed to be 5% to work means you do not understand how a possible 90% lower rate your suggesting make any sense, right?
Or are you meaning that 0.5% is within perfectly acceptable range, and that 5% was probably overkill to start with since you did not know the shares would be paying out such high rates?
There is nothing wrong with making money. Perhaps people should stop and think that paying the 5% might make you a better asset manager to want to grow it as large as possible.
Your time is also valuable as the coder/operator of btct among other things. Sometimes quality comes with a price and standard of expectations.


Well, the asset's don't have options of "Yes with/out votes" or a mention of voting in G.ASICMINER-PT for nothing. I would link it for you but that may not be proper here.

With everything being said so far, while acting as a pass-through you should make sure to fully understand the asset you are passing through and all it entails since you are liable for the shares and any possible board member responsibilities/benefits/requirements/expectations expected of ASICMINER board members.

I've had some good conversations with ASICMINER shareholders that would like to move their shares to the exchange, but are turned off by the maintenance fees.

I completely understand this, especially when there's a very good alternative out there that passes through 100% of the divs.  I still don't get how they can do that.  It seems like a recipe for trouble, however it does force me to reconsider. 

What I'm thinking is that a tiered maintenance fee probably makes the most sense.  Here is my proposed change:


DeaDTerra's pass through also addresses the possibility of reaching 5000 shares and becoming a board member.  Should we reach 5000 shares, and we are granted a seat at the board, the fund will bring motions to decide how to vote on upcoming ASICMINER motions.  This is a distinct ability that I do not believe the other platform has.  (I don't think they have motions?  Do they?)

If we reach 5000 shares, become a board member, and are granted a mining unit, then we will at that time take motions as to how to deal with it.  Either by reselling it, or by contracting a mining company to operate it for us for an additional dividend, or whatever the current shareholders deem appropriate.

Cheers.

There's actually 400,000 shares.

The 163k you refer to are the ones sold on GLBSE.  Dividends are going only to those shares until they've been paid back the initial 0.1 BTC the shares were sold for.  After that all future dividends will be split between all 400k shares (the other shares are ones taken by those running ASICMNER for their work/investment into it plus some which were going to be sold on GLBSE but weren't in the end as the funds weren't needed due to a rise in BTC price).

So for now each share gets 1/162k of each dividend - once each share has received 0.1 BTC it'll get 1/400k of dividend thereafter.

Last question:
are there about 163000 shares - worth about 81500btc of ASICMINER?

Calculations:
3860.41091438 BTC / dividend per share was approximately 0.02354413 bitcoins = 163964

source:
http://mineforeman.com/2013/03/01/asicminer-pays-dividends/

We expect once a week (on Thursdays) but not sure it's absolutely written in stone.

And please remind me...
How often does the ASICMINER pay? Once a week? Or how it works?

By contract they'll be paid within 72 hours of ASICMINER releasing them.  If it takes me any longer than that, (eg, I'm on vacation.) then the maintenance fee will be waived.

In practice I expect to be turning them around pretty quickly, most likely within 24 hrs.

Cheers.

how often are the dividends paid here?

Yep 

I think you might be looking at the wrong site. 

https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT

Right now the ask is of 492 shares. The 24h vol is 86 shares. Supposing that all 86 are first time sales this gives a total of 587 shares (less if some share has been reselled). Where are the remaining shares to 1000 ?

Hope to have the BTC tomorrow.  Just not easy exchanging in Denmark.  They will sell out about 30 mins before my bank can pull their finger out.  You watch.

The ask is up at 0.65!

There will only be these 1000 shares for sale at this time.  The call option I was working on for the second 1000 shares fell through, so get 'em while you can. 

Without the second 1000 shares which were cheaper, if all 1000 sell this week the immediate dividend will be around 0.01 to 0.015.

Cheers.

Appreciate the clarification.  I don't think I really read all that much into it.  Just read that it was being discussed, and it sounds like you've confirmed that.  It's nothing nefarious, we've discussed the same issuer volume type things before, and cryptostocks already has it.  It's just that it's a really (really) bad idea.


I agree with most of that.  I'll reiterate that after the first week of the IPO when we know how many shares have sold a refund in the form of a dividend is planned.  The problem is that if say, only 500 shares sell, then the premium on the call becomes a higher portion of the overall cost.  I don't know how else to do it fairly.  The final cost following the dividend will come very close (less than a percentage point) to my actual cost.

The goal was never to make a windfall on the sales.  The final trigger for me to do this was the thread where they're tracking bids and asks post by post.    It just became obvious that something better could be worked out.

Cheers.