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Topic: Bullion (CBX) 'the Digital Precious Metal' | 2019 Roadmap published - page 244. (Read 359514 times)

full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
Some people just want to watch the world dance.
There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

Yes. An incentivized 'backing' model through interest is certainly a possibility.

Is it necessary though ? Does it over complicate everything ?

I think it plays nicely with the idea of encoding the backing information into the blockchain. This would allow individual CBX to be queried and tracked, so each CBX in effect has a 'backing' history in addition to a 'transaction' history. This information could be used by the PoSP algorithm to incentivize backing. I think encouraging backing in this way, at least in the outset, will be beneficial. If we do go down this road and fully embrace the asset backing concept,  I see it being a big change in direction for CBX. IMHO, that direction fits perfectly with Crypto Bullion's original concept, but it will need to be something that the CBX community agrees on.


Indeed. This requires community participation and > data from said participation.

I'm really trying to get members of The Silver Forum to start using Crypto Bullion and to try backing some CBX with precious metals that they own. I have a post offering some CBX in their private members lounge. In the main they see this as a bit of a learning curve, although have not rejected the concept and remain open to the possibilities with this.


Perhaps we should consider the experience from the perspective of someone totally new to crypto. There's a lot for someone to get their head around, and some simplifications to the wallet could pay dividends in terms of gently introducing them without bamboozling them. Perhaps if the wallet defaulted to a 'simple' mode, but allowed advanced users to to select 'advanced' or 'expert' modes which would give them more wallet functionality. I'm thinking along the lines of how Armory handles this. Having the client auto-connect to a central server where it pulls down the latest bootstrap and config files automatically would also be great. I think the ease-of-use payoff far outweighs any concerns of centralization. As if sign the data on the server and ship the associated public key inside the wallet, we could authenticate the data too. I think addressing barriers to entry is worth some thought in addition to all the great new ideas we're coming up with. On this note, if anyone has any feedback to share, perhaps from introducing a non-technical friend or family member to cryptocurrency software, that insight would be very useful. Thank you Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

Yes. An incentivized 'backing' model through interest is certainly a possibility.

Is it necessary though ? Does it over complicate everything ?

I think it plays nicely with the idea of encoding the backing information into the blockchain. This would allow individual CBX to be queried and tracked, so each CBX in effect has a 'backing' history in addition to a 'transaction' history. This information could be used by the PoSP algorithm to incentivize backing. I think encouraging backing in this way, at least in the outset, will be beneficial. If we do go down this road and fully embrace the asset backing concept,  I see it being a big change in direction for CBX. IMHO, that direction fits perfectly with Crypto Bullion's original concept, but it will need to be something that the CBX community agrees on.


Indeed. This requires community participation and > data from said participation.

I'm really trying to get members of The Silver Forum to start using Crypto Bullion and to try backing some CBX with precious metals that they own. I have a post offering some CBX in their private members lounge. In the main they see this as a bit of a learning curve, although have not rejected the concept and remain open to the possibilities with this.
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
Some people just want to watch the world dance.
There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

Yes. An incentivized 'backing' model through interest is certainly a possibility.

Is it necessary though ? Does it over complicate everything ?

I think it plays nicely with the idea of encoding the backing information into the blockchain. This would allow individual CBX to be queried and tracked, so each CBX in effect has a 'backing' history in addition to a 'transaction' history. This information could be used by the PoSP algorithm to incentivize backing. I think encouraging backing in this way, at least in the outset, will be beneficial. If we do go down this road and fully embrace the asset backing concept,  I see it being a big change in direction for CBX. IMHO, that direction fits perfectly with Crypto Bullion's original concept, but it will need to be something that the CBX community agrees on.
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

Yes. An incentivized 'backing' model through interest is certainly a possibility.

Is it necessary though ? Does it over complicate everything ?
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
About identity:

The Basics Of A Bitcoin-Based Global Identity System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZC98s4paYY

This guy has a lot more interesting video's, check his channel.

Smart Contracts & Bitcoin's Big Bang of Disruption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nOfHpOFhN8

Good stuff.

Some of these concepts I really like, others not so much. I need to re-watch these and make some notes.
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
Some people just want to watch the world dance.
There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF

I would like to add to the theory that once the 1 oz Silver is used to back someone's coins, the person who would receive it after a year should use that reward to back someone else's coins.
That way the commodities stay in roulation and the total amount only grows as more people start to participate.

An interesting theory indeed BTCat.

Although, it cannot really work like that in my honest opinion (unless I misunderstand you).

When the CBX from a balance is spent you are effectively breaking the contract of the Signed statement with yourself. This happens automatically if the CBX balance is spent below the backed statement of proof-of-value. However, it does not prevent you from staking the existing balance and/or spending the interest or the balance that remains above the backed quantity.

What you are describing here I think is something similar to a derivative ? https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance) - which is not a principal of 'sound money' or 'honest money' and should be viewed as the opposite of what we would seek to achieve here.

How I personally envisage this working in practice is that when an individual might consider their backing to be of a lower value against the total network value, they will simply re-back their holdings and create a new statement. This potentially adds 'value' at the same time as some individuals would most likely re-back with more CBX and/or more physical Bullion. Remembering that their is only so much CBX in circulation to be backed (or uncirculated CBX to be re-backed)!

It is also why we should completely avoid and in fact do not need to set a currency peg against the gold and/or silver price in dollars etc.,

A Value Network determines the actual price through price discovery and free market valuations in this regard.
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
Hey CBX, I am being a bit slow here - how does backing CBX with preshious metal work exactly? If I purchase coins backed with silver do I also get the silver?

David

No.

It is not really possible to 'buy' backed CBX as the action of backing means that the CBX becomes uncirculated.

~ The only way that buying backed CBX becomes possible would be if you purchased the wallets corresponding private key and the same physical bullion from the signed owner and both parties signed a new statement of ownership / transfer. N.B. that the buyer would then need to move the funds and re-sign for security, thus rendering the said transaction pointless.

The basis of this is that all CBX on crypto exchanges would therefore become un-backed and can therefore be defined as circulated.

Against the total CBX money supply (market capitalization) it will be possible to track exactly how much CBX is circulated vs uncirculated.
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1010

I must admit, I had trouble getting my head around this initially.

I'm still there but it's fun to play with the idea.

What I can't understand is why would I purchase CBX and then purchase some silver on top. It feels like paying twice.
Wouldn't this work better if there is an option to back someone else's CBX.

Example: I will back 1,000 CBX that belong to Raizor for 1 year with 1 oz Silver. If he choose to sell his CBX before the year ends then the Silver will start to back another persons 1,000 CBX. If Raizor holds his coins for the full year he may claim the Silver.

That would be an incentive to hold them. Raizor could return the favor and back a 1,000 from me for similar value.  

It would require trust or it needs to have legal backing with a contract. 

I would like to add to the theory that once the 1 oz Silver is used to back someone's coins, the person who would receive it after a year should use that reward to back someone else's coins.
That way the commodities stay in roulation and the total amount only grows as more people start to participate.
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
Some people just want to watch the world dance.
Hey CBX, I am being a bit slow here - how does backing CBX with preshious metal work exactly? If I purchase coins backed with silver do I also get the silver?

David

Hey FR, there's a reply from me to BTCat a page or so back. That might help clear things up a little. Please chime in with any thoughts. I'd like to get a good discussion going on this as I'm still excited about where this could lead. The idea came from BitcoinFX  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 346
Merit: 255
Hey CBX, I am being a bit slow here - how does backing CBX with preshious metal work exactly? If I purchase coins backed with silver do I also get the silver?

David
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1010
About identity:

The Basics Of A Bitcoin-Based Global Identity System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZC98s4paYY

This guy has a lot more interesting video's, check his channel.

Smart Contracts & Bitcoin's Big Bang of Disruption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nOfHpOFhN8
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
...

As it stands, with BitcoinFX's verified holdings, CBX has a physically backed value of.... $15.54 (current USD value of 1 Troy Oz of Silver). As more investors back their CBX holdings with precious metals, purchase CBX with precious metals or pair their CBX with someone holding precious metals, the 'CBX precious metals market cap value' increases and increases, attracting more CBX investors and more physical backers. Physically backed Crypto Bullion is our killer app, in my humble opinion. People today talk about the value of CBX in USD or BTC primarily, I can see a future where Gold, Silver, Platinum etc are included too. This is the most exciting idea I've come across in Crypto so far. I'll think on it for a couple of days to be sure it isn't just caffeine and lack of sleep, but I'm pretty convinced that this is a real game changer, both for CBX and Crypto in general. When you consider the mindset of the average intelligent crypto investor, who looks for a store of value, safe from capitol controls during times of economic uncertainty. It's easy to see why so many cryptocurrency advocates also hold precious metals. CBX is perfectly poised to be the link between those two worlds, aligning the digital and physical and providing forward-thinking investors to get involved early and help to realise the massive potential this offers (both on a technical level and a potential financial gains level).

These are just some of the ideas flying around in my head this morning. I'm sure in the near future we'll be investigating interacting with precious metal brokerage markets directly from the Crypto Bullion wallet, using a decentralized exchange system that automatically purchases the corresponding amount of precious metal (automatically encoding this pegging on the blockchain) when someone purchases CBX. That's certainly one way to have fully-automated and decentralized cryptocurrency to precious metal pegging. Exciting times for CBX indeed!

raizor

With the screen shot and signed message I in fact backed 1000 CBX with 5 x 2 Troy Oz Scottsdale Mint "Stacker Round"s - i.e. 10 Troy Oz Total (thus far) See: https://www.scottsdalesilver.com/store/product.php?productid=17562 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5EJrjUtRuw  Cool

(sounds like you had to much caffeine and no sleep)

...

It is vitally important that the majority of the proof-of-value backed holdings are individually owned, personal and therefore decentralized. Think of this as the very oposite to the centralized mining farms that we now see with Bitcoin. 3rd party vault storage is generally a bad idea as well, although I can envisage that some centralization will probably occur.

If we look pre-bitcoin to understand why centralization is a massive potential hinderance, we can see that the majority of centralized DGC's (Digital Gold Currencies) - https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_gold_currency have in fact failed. Not only due to having centralized servers, but also due to having centralized gold holdings.

Again, a fully decentralized proof-of-value network is the best approach.
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
Some people just want to watch the world dance.
OK. I will look to produce a workflow diagram of the cryptobullion Value Network for community discussion.

...

On a less serious note;

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-YKw8w-e50 - Philomena Cunk Money "Moments of Wonder."

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ - First Follower: Leadership Lessons from Dancing Guy   Cheesy

That would be great! Thank you.
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
Thanks BitcoinFX. A lot of this info is probably new to a lot of people here (it certainly is to me), so it's good to have someone to point us in the right direction. I think I've come up with a way to encode these certificates into the CBX blockchain for a nominal fee (slightly above the standard transaction fee) without requiring any changes to the underlying protocol. If you have any ideas on workflow (step by step of how you see this system working once it's ready for initial release), those would be really helpful in understanding the process and coming up with an implementation plan. It also enables me to start thinking ahead in relation to the technical aspects.

OK. I will look to produce a workflow diagram of the cryptobullion Value Network for community discussion.

...

On a less serious note;

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-YKw8w-e50 - Philomena Cunk Money "Moments of Wonder."

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ - First Follower: Leadership Lessons from Dancing Guy   Cheesy
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
Some people just want to watch the world dance.
Thanks BitcoinFX. A lot of this info is probably new to a lot of people here (it certainly is to me), so it's good to have someone to point us in the right direction. I think I've come up with a way to encode these certificates into the CBX blockchain for a nominal fee (slightly above the standard transaction fee) without requiring any changes to the underlying protocol. If you have any ideas on workflow (step by step of how you see this system working once it's ready for initial release), those would be really helpful in understanding the process and coming up with an implementation plan. It also enables me to start thinking ahead in relation to the technical aspects.
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
In search for the lowest retail denomination of physical gold 'bullion' ownership available from the internet I have discovered valaurum.

Whilst their 1/10 gram 24 karat gold 'certificates' are a few 100% above spot price, they are individually numbered!

See: http://valaurum.com/ (N.B. That is not a 'yellow' peice of paper, but a very thin layer of pressed gold and is a similar size to a bank note.)

Thus, at the lowest entry point one could even back 0.000001 CBX with 1/10 gram of 'certificated' gold.   Cool
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
My public post at The Silver Forum "How to use crypto-currency to verify value and secure your PM trading.

- https://thesilverforum.com/topic/3613-how-to-use-crypto-currency-to-verify-value-and-secure-your-pm-trading/

...

On a separate note this thread makes for a wonderful read for anyone perhaps overly immersed in the Bitcoin / Alt. coin / crypto scene with an interest in numismatics.

- https://thesilverforum.com/topic/584-bitcoin-and-other-crypto-currencies/

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