Topic: Bulls are Retarded - page 6. (Read 1372 times)

If Lightning adoption picks up in a big way, there will be supply forces that drive prices up too.

Lightning incentivizes people to lock up BTC (to use in channels or collect Lightning node fees). That could increase demand, but more notably it could decrease available supply as people shift coins into Lightning and away from exchanges.

In the past it would have been bat-shit crazy to ever believe bitcoin would reach $100. So... 

If you just get in when BTC price is on its ATH then you would definitely have this kind of line or thinking.I cant blame but
if we do really dig deeper we would really able to say that we are on a good range.Imagine on how far we have reached when bitcoins
price is still not big at all.

There's one small thing that stands out to me.

Perma bulls have been right.

Time after time.

The people who start threads like this have been wrong every.single.time. There are hundreds of them littered throughout this forum dating from 2011 or before.

Those who called for $1/10/100/1000/10000 were all dissed in pinhead threads too.

There are certain patterns I see in this forum repeating over and over and over again.

One of them is scale. For some reason people can't understand that price rises alongside the numbers of people. In some ways it was harder to go from 0-$10 than it might be to go from $10,000 - $100,000. It signifies momentum. Without it nothing happens. When it gathers pace nothing can stop it.

Unlike any other 'investment' before it every bubble burst so far ends up with more people involved than were here when it started. Nothing else can do that as nothing else has risen literally from zero.

Every move from now on will keep gathering ever greater numbers of people until it's saturated and then the epic calls will be redundant.



You clearly don't understand market cap either. If someone spent $5 billion tomorrow between 0900 and 1200 GMT with the coins available on exchanges I expect the market cap would be $5-10 trillion by lunch time simply because the supply of coins would dry up.

It's people who just recently got into the market that's all fuzzy about it. Though there's reason, especially if you got in close to the ath lol. Looking at the bigger picture, it's still promising if only you can see the long run probabilities.

Generalizations are stupid.

It'd be hard to argue that whoever bought BTC for pennies in 2010 made a bad deal with it at U$ 3000 right now!

Heck, when BTC hit U$ 100 I thought it was insane. Now it's still 30X above 100.

Although all of those things matter I know that it would somehow reach those goals and would make the market grow instantly when all people will come back to the market.

Let's take these one by one. First of all, 1 trillion dollar market cap is not something unheard of, it has done that previously and it is still quite possible and even at a 100 thousand dollars the marketcap is still lower than nasdaq and nyse combined, that is just two american stock markets that pass bitcoin marketcap even if it was 100 thousand dollars per bitcoin and we have hundreds of stock markets all around the world whereas bitcoin is a global thing not an american thing. Hence, it is possible to reach those levels, definitely not easy and definitely not anytime soon but theoretically possible.

Second thing is, the 50 dollar transaction thing, last time bitcoin went up we were not prepared for such a rise and right now with segwit and lightning network we are more than ready for something like that, all exchanges and wallets are ready to have bitcoin at 100 thousand dollars and still capable of paying low amounts of fee for transactions.

Speculators part is definitely true, I have nothing against that, if it was something fundamentally disturbing the market we wouldn't talk about the price to begin with but since we focus on the price that means speculation is not only a whale thing but its for everyone. So, you are right on that one.

I really like this answer, a short and pointly presented error and finally a beautiful strike about LN and PayPal.
I would just only add, that it is still just an experiment! 

You are proven wrong already. Bitcoin has processed over $2 trillion worth of transactions this year. Most of it is likely due to speculation, but still, the network has processed that much in value, which is the most important metric to focus on. I expect this trend to continue and we'll likely break $3 trillion next year, or the year after.

LN will eventually process a fair amount of transactional value as well, so we can look forward to even more growth in that field. We already have wiped PayPal & Co off the table in terms of transactional value, and remember that we're still just starting up.

I actually agree that permabulls are bad at thinking.
And yes, btc is purely speculative unlike adoption-based cryptos.
But making money on it speculating is not impossible.
TA works because people believe in it - a self fulfilling prophecy. You just gotta know when to be a bull and when to be a bear. And never be a pig 

There's very little censorship of language on this forum, and calling an enormous group of people retarded is not the worst insult I've ever heard.  Not even in the top 1000.

OP, markets can get very irrational and what I think a lot of these bulls are hoping for is another stretch of severe irrationality, i.e., bitcoin going to $100k or more.  I mean hell, bitcoin already reached $20k at its peak, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that it could hit $100k one day.  If your definition of retarded is being so hopeful that bitcoin is going to make you 100x your original investment that you can't realistically see all the barriers and problems and you invest more money than you can afford to lose, then I'd agree with that definition.

People like Peter Schiff drive me nuts and also would fall into the category of being retarded, even though he's extremely successful.  The problem with him and others like him is that they're constantly telling people to buy! buy! buy!, whether it's gold or bitcoin.  And when any market has just been through an extreme bull run, like gold in 2011 or bitcoin in 2017, there are going to be people losing their heads worrying that they might be losing out on an opportunity that just...maybe...the market is only cooling down a bit.  

What happens is that they end up with the result of every bubble (pop!), and they buy in right when the price is falling (or is staying flat).  I probably wouldn't insult them with epithets, but they're definitely greedy and blinded by the fear of missing out.  Nice provocative thread you got going here, OP.

I used to think that bitcoin could never get to $1 million because of fees, but then I started understanding things like you mentioned, plus the possibility of doing OTC transactions as well.

I don't think it's just based on past performance but on the notion of exponentially increasing adoption. It's still known that significantly more money will be needed to sustain the price as it increases.


That's really an exaggeration of fees last year. $1-2 fees for quickly confirmed transactions yeah, but anyone paying more than that was doing so unnecessarily (or was using lots of inputs). Transaction batching and Segwit adoption have definitely improved things since then and Lightning transactions are extremely cheap and fast.

I never bought into the "cheap fees" selling point because that's not really part of Bitcoin's design. But micropayments can be a reality as the Lightning Network becomes more usable.

Market cap surely matters, but at least we can safely say that bitcoin can reach the previous results if not set the brew ATH. Apart from that, transaction fee issues are supposed to be solved by the lightning network. And also, I disagree that high price is rather an obstacle on the way to mass adoption. I think that if bitcoin doesn't at least get close to previous records, the merchants will not accept it widely, because nobody wants to lose do much money. We need a slight upward trend and pretty high prices for people to be motivated to accept bitcoin.

It will happen when no one expects it to happen, which goes up for what happened last year as well. $20,000 would be something for 2020-2022 if you asked people when they expected it to happen.

Overall, I think that reaching $100,000 isn't that much of a problem--the problem is consolidating above it. Bitcoin has proven to struggle with every new high and I don't expect much to change in the future (if ever at all).

My only thing with Bitcoin maximalists is that everything outside Bitcoin is by definition shit. Sure, most coins are indeed shit and have no chance to survive, but a small number of coins do have that usability.

I think Monero is a coin with decent potential. It may be a niche product, but still, it's working. In the same way that applies to Ethereum.

I do not believe that bitcoin reaches 100k USD very early, it will take a long time, and maybe it will never reach this value, but the price of 10k, 20k I believe!

Firstly is it really necessary to use derogatory language and demean countless people in the process? You're entitled to your opinion and most of it you presented quite well, but there's little need for some of the language.

As for the points, some of them are valid, they're true for a lot of people probably. But they're also a gross over-generalization. Most bulls don't believe a lot of what you said to be true and understand most of the points that you've made.

Do you really think that the bulls believe in a 100K USD future bitcoin price?I don't think so.
They just spread optimisitc propaganda about bitcoin's bright future.Some people choose to believe in it,other people don't.By the way,this post is knda similar to another post here,talking about bitcoin supporters being morons.Bulls=retards,BTC supporters=morons.I guess we have trolls on this forum.