Topic: BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!) - page 38. (Read 74713 times)

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2015/01/26/colorado-man-facing-5-years-jail-for-buying-and-selling-bitcoin-without-a-license/

Yeah their gambling laws and a lot of other ones don't make much sense. America likes to posture though they're pretty backward in a lot of respects, but we must remember it's the clowns in charge that make the laws and they're there to penalize people to suit certain agendas and benefit certain people whilst fucking over everyone else.


This is a key point that people musn't forget. You might think it's easy to get away with but your countries tax man is always going to want their cut so always expect or plan for them whether legally or ilegally.

You're not big enough yet for them to be interested in you. Don't worry.

what exchange did he run, or was he just a localbitcoins seller?

Wow thats crazy, i'll never own 100 I think
When did he start in the bitcoin world? early investor and miner??

Let's remember that Coinbase, Kraken do not have financial license until now. Maybe they will have "tomorrow". It doesn't matter, they do not have it NOW. They are on market since years ago !

 I am wondering why they are still free  The law should be for everybody, right?

According to the law, they operate money transmitter businesses.

US Gov seized 2 MIL from Mt Gox for that, they put in jail the Bitinstant's owner for 2 years. Same thing "Unlicensed Money Transmitter"

Since I agree with almost every word of this, I might as well just quote it.

It's important to have the correct mindset when going into this.  Don't ever believe that there really are rational rules out there somewhere and that it is possible to follow them and avoid all harassment.  You can do everything perfectly, and still encounter a lot of bullshit.

Regardless, you have an absolute right to trade.  Full stop.  Everything else, the regulations, the taxes, the restrictions, is voluntary.

Further, the US government has zero jurisdiction over trade.  They can only regulate commerce.  It's right in the Constitution.

So what they will try to do, in these instances, is try to trick you into turning your trade into commerce.  That can happen in dozens of ways.  But it always involves the introduction of a third party and some kind of conditional binding agreement that you voluntarily agree to.

If you put your Bitcoins on your taxes, guess what?  You've voluntarily introduced a third party.

If you register a Bitcoin business or sign up for a bit-license, guess what?  You've voluntarily introduced a third party.

If you have an agreement with a Bitcoin ATM manufacturer that you will "operate" the ATM using his exchange services, guess what?  You've voluntarily introduced a third party.

So, here's what you need to do in order to trade Bitcoins.  You hand over x Bitcoins;  you get y of whatever (Paypal-bux, Federal Reserve Notes, etc) in return.

That's it.

The moment that the other party starts talking about "I'm going to do this" or "I'm going to do that" with whatever you trade him, that's an attempt to turn voluntary trade into a binding commercial agreement.  The government will argue that, by continuing, you entered a commercial agreement with the other party and are therefore responsible for whatever idiotic things they told you they were going to do.

Yes, it's ridiculous.  But that's what they really think.

That's the basis of their jurisdiction.  It's the reason that every one of these actions includes the phrase "affecting inter-state commerce."

It all stems from an idiotic Supreme Court case, Wickard v. Filburn.  Filburn was a farmer who voluntarily signed up to receive government subsidies on his wheat crop.  From that point onward, the government argued that all of the wheat he produced, even for his own consumption, was bound by commercial agreement and subject to whatever regulations it wanted to impose on them.  And, incredibly, a bought-off Supreme Court agreed.

So, the way to avoid problems with trading on LocalBitcoins is that, whenever the other party starts saying "I'm going to do this" or "I'm going to do that" with whatever you trade them, just cancel the trade and walk away.  At the very least, if you have to continue, make it clear in no uncertain terms that whatever they do is their business, and that you are just engaged in trade.  You aren't their "partner".  You aren't a "corporation".  You aren't a "dealer".  You aren't an "exchange".  You're an individual engaged in trade.

Dealing in Bitcoin is dangerous.

If you check out the linked in profile of the Assistant US Attorney prosecuting this case:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/michele-korver/4/405/977

it seems like she considers herself an expert in the following areas:


I suspect that the government is just testing the waters to see how far they can clamp down on Bitcoin traders and probably considers this Assistant US Attorney as the best and most motivated person to handle the case.

This sounds really bad. As far as I know, he is buying and selling bitcoins face to face, he is not running an exchange and money laundering?

I hope these are pumped up charges to get him to pay his evaded taxes 

He was indicted for transmitting money without a license to someone who was planning on using the proceeds of the transmission for criminal purposes.

In other words he sold bitcoin to someone who was said he was planning on using it for something illegal.

I did read throught supportment site and articles and he really got arrested for trading btc without licence that isn't even needed? WTF?!

I don't think law enforcement is out to get people who are selling bitcoin like this. I would speculate they are primarily after people who are willing to trade with people that openly admit to intend on breaking the law with the bitcoin they are purchasing/selling

Those rules don't work because you're still acting as a money services business and most LEOs will make small trades first to build trust. Hell, they might even take you out to dinner and go bar hopping with you first.

Made some business with Burt back in the days. He blew 10000 BTC on Pirate if I remember right. Things were different back then but some day you have to pay your bills.

from the Tips for local transactions thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/tips-for-local-transactions-137272
the general rules include:

• agree on price and procedures in advance
• meet in a neutral place with video surveillance and secure wifi
• verify that both parties have all the required Bitcoins and cash
• perform incremental transactions, exchange small amounts first
• if the other party wants to change the procedure, walk away
• never do a transaction with anyone who tells you that it will be used for something illegal

i dont know about him or thats organise .
just pray the best for him.

A lawyer is only going to help him at the margins. If he has in fact broken the law then having a good lawyer is not going to help very much. The way that a good lawyer can help is getting the charges reduced or potentially getting him a lesser sentence.

It is possible that a good lawyer can get evidence thrown out that was obtained illegally however it is fairly rare that this succeeds.

HAD, yes.  But for a century the authoritarians of all political persuasions have been exerting and tightening their control.

Even worse is the US internet gambling laws. Pretty draconian compared to other countries in the so-called "free world".