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Topic: Butterfly Labs ASIC Gear Potential - page 5. (Read 6983 times)

sr. member
Activity: 369
Merit: 250
June 19, 2012, 11:17:59 AM
#36
Your estimates are off.  Every 2016 blocks, the difficulty would most likely quadruple.  Which means in the first week, you'd already see your max profits get quartered.  Give it another week (if it even takes that long) and they get quartered again (1/16).  Another week, another quarter (1/64).  The final week, another quarter (1/256).  Not as shiny, is it?

even by 1/2, a shit storm is brewing!

1/(2^n) Wink

Also, if it quadrupled like that, the difficulty would increase every 3.5 days.  That's scary.
sr. member
Activity: 369
Merit: 250
June 19, 2012, 11:17:05 AM
#35
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!

When I plug the numbers, at Double the Difficulty and Half the reward the gear would still be repaid ($30,000) in 30 days

Did you account for the difficulty rising twice (possibly 3 or even 4 times) during that period?

When companies order chips like these, they arrive all at once..  If BFL has any common sense, they will flood the market with these things so everyone has a 'chance' at getting the first 1TH/s machine.  Then everyone will complain that their ROI has risen back to 2 years.

1 month gross rates for 1TH/s at $6.38 exchange rate

At present difficulty and 25 reward  - $62850.86 USD
Double the Difficulty 25 reward - $31425.43 USD
Triple the Difficulty 25 reward - $20950.29 USD
Quadruple the Difficulty 25 reward - $15712.71 USD

It still seems to me that even as the difficulty ramps up if you are one of the first to market that you will enjoy a good rate of return until the field equalizes. So your actual return over the first 6 months would probably be a sliding scale of upward difficulty but your initial investment seems like it should be paid off rather quickly

Do the math for an increase in difficulty every 7 days, which doubles.
vip
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
June 19, 2012, 11:16:44 AM
#34
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!

When I plug the numbers, at Double the Difficulty and Half the reward the gear would still be repaid ($30,000) in 30 days

Did you account for the difficulty rising twice (possibly 3 or even 4 times) during that period?

When companies order chips like these, they arrive all at once..  If BFL has any common sense, they will flood the market with these things so everyone has a 'chance' at getting the first 1TH/s machine.  Then everyone will complain that their ROI has risen back to 2 years.

1 month gross rates for 1TH/s at $6.38 exchange rate

At present difficulty and 25 reward  - $62850.86 USD
Double the Difficulty 25 reward - $31425.43 USD
Triple the Difficulty 25 reward - $20950.29 USD
Quadruple the Difficulty 25 reward - $15712.71 USD

It still seems to me that even as the difficulty ramps up if you are one of the first to market that you will enjoy a good rate of return until the field equalizes. So your actual return over the first 6 months would probably be a sliding scale of upward difficulty but your initial investment seems like it should be paid off rather quickly

Your estimates are off.  Every 2016 blocks, the difficulty would most likely quadruple.  Which means in the first week, you'd already see your max profits get quartered.  Give it another week (if it even takes that long) and they get quartered again (1/16).  Another week, another quarter (1/64).  The final week, another quarter (1/256).  Not as shiny, is it?
sr. member
Activity: 369
Merit: 250
June 19, 2012, 11:14:47 AM
#33
Idiot, Amazon dont make money on selling hardware. They make money on services ....aka selling books thro Kindle.

Appl doesnt make money on your I-products... They make money on App Store.

BFL loves idiots like you.

/thread

What's your point? BFL doesn't have an app store, they only sell hardware.

My point is exactly that.

As someone pointed out, it does not make any financial sense for such price point.

Its not like they can have trillions chips to ship.

Anyone thinks the low price point is to completely conquer the market is idiot


because they can conquer the market selling at 95% of the competition.

remember those are prices for SPECULATED performance specs.  Look what happened to the single and minirig

There are 2 main way to conquere the market, only one is used but never both:
+ Lowest price point
OR
+ Most technology breakthro in your products line.

So yes, they're bluffing to fool idiots.


They should have waited to announce this once they had their beta up and running.  If they ever will.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 11:14:23 AM
#32
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!

When I plug the numbers, at Double the Difficulty and Half the reward the gear would still be repaid ($30,000) in 30 days

Did you account for the difficulty rising twice (possibly 3 or even 4 times) during that period?

When companies order chips like these, they arrive all at once..  If BFL has any common sense, they will flood the market with these things so everyone has a 'chance' at getting the first 1TH/s machine.  Then everyone will complain that their ROI has risen back to 2 years.

1 month gross rates for 1TH/s at $6.38 exchange rate

At present difficulty and 25 reward  - $62850.86 USD
Double the Difficulty 25 reward - $31425.43 USD
Triple the Difficulty 25 reward - $20950.29 USD
Quadruple the Difficulty 25 reward - $15712.71 USD

It still seems to me that even as the difficulty ramps up if you are one of the first to market that you will enjoy a good rate of return until the field equalizes. So your actual return over the first 6 months would probably be a sliding scale of upward difficulty but your initial investment seems like it should be paid off rather quickly
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 11:12:22 AM
#31
Idiot, Amazon dont make money on selling hardware. They make money on services ....aka selling books thro Kindle.

Appl doesnt make money on your I-products... They make money on App Store.

BFL loves idiots like you.

/thread

What's your point? BFL doesn't have an app store, they only sell hardware.

My point is exactly that.

As someone pointed out, it does not make any financial sense for such price point.

Its not like they can have trillions chips to ship.

Anyone thinks the low price point is to completely conquer the market is idiot


because they can conquer the market selling at 95% of the competition.

remember those are prices for SPECULATED performance specs.  Look what happened to the single and minirig

There are 2 main way to conquere the market, only one is used but never both:
+ Lowest price point
OR
+ Most technology breakthro in your products line.

So yes, they're bluffing to fool idiots.
vip
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
June 19, 2012, 11:10:05 AM
#30
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!
Isn't there a limit on how quickly the difficulty can increase? Does anyone know what that limit is?

Yes, up to 4x per change.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 11:09:50 AM
#29
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!

When I plug the numbers, at Double the Difficulty and Half the reward the gear would still be repaid ($30,000) in 30 days

Did you account for the difficulty rising twice (possibly 3 or even 4 times) during that period?

When companies order chips like these, they arrive all at once..  If BFL has any common sense, they will flood the market with these things so everyone has a 'chance' at getting the first 1TH/s machine.  Then everyone will complain that their ROI has risen back to 2 years.

If BFL has any common sense, they wouldnt have done what they did so far.

Its a dirty trick and most possibly leads to a scam.

As you said, many ppl will try to have " the first chance"

All your preorders funds are unprotected. Remember that
sr. member
Activity: 369
Merit: 250
June 19, 2012, 11:07:59 AM
#28
Idiot, Amazon dont make money on selling hardware. They make money on services ....aka selling books thro Kindle.

Appl doesnt make money on your I-products... They make money on App Store.

BFL loves idiots like you.

/thread

What's your point? BFL doesn't have an app store, they only sell hardware.

My point is exactly that.

As someone pointed out, it does not make any financial sense for such price point.

Its not like they can have trillions chips to ship.

Anyone thinks the low price point is to completely conquer the market is idiot


because they can conquer the market selling at 95% of the competition.

remember those are prices for SPECULATED performance specs.  Look what happened to the single and minirig
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 11:06:19 AM
#27
Idiot, Amazon dont make money on selling hardware. They make money on services ....aka selling books thro Kindle.

Appl doesnt make money on your I-products... They make money on App Store.

BFL loves idiots like you.

/thread

What's your point? BFL doesn't have an app store, they only sell hardware.

My point is exactly that.

As someone pointed out, it does not make any financial sense for such price point.

Its not like they can have trillions chips to ship.

Anyone thinks the low price point is to completely conquer the market is idiot
sr. member
Activity: 369
Merit: 250
June 19, 2012, 11:01:21 AM
#26
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!

When I plug the numbers, at Double the Difficulty and Half the reward the gear would still be repaid ($30,000) in 30 days

Did you account for the difficulty rising twice (possibly 3 or even 4 times) during that period?

When companies order chips like these, they arrive all at once..  If BFL has any common sense, they will flood the market with these things so everyone has a 'chance' at getting the first 1TH/s machine.  Then everyone will complain that their ROI has risen back to 2 years.
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
June 19, 2012, 11:01:06 AM
#25
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!
Isn't there a limit on how quickly the difficulty can increase? Does anyone know what that limit is?

I don't think so. I know it's recalculated every 2016 blocks to take 2 weeks, and readjusts the difficulty to compensate if those 2016 blocks took longer then or shorter than 2 weeks time. If done in 12 days, then it's going to jump by ~17%. If it's done in 10 days, then it increases ~40%. If it's done in 16 days, it goes down ~13%. Etc, etc.
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
June 19, 2012, 10:59:10 AM
#24
Isn't there a limit on how quickly the difficulty can increase? Does anyone know what that limit is?
It can increase by up to 4 times every retarget. But note that if the network hashrate massively increases without the difficulty keeping up, retargets will be more rapid than once every 2 weeks, so the difficulty can actually increase quite fast.
hero member
Activity: 535
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 10:55:37 AM
#23
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!
Isn't there a limit on how quickly the difficulty can increase? Does anyone know what that limit is?
Yeah, my broadband ISP. 100500 difficulty increase is a serious issue.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 10:54:47 AM
#22
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!

When I plug the numbers, at Double the Difficulty and Half the reward the gear would still be repaid ($30,000) in 30 days
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
June 19, 2012, 10:50:56 AM
#21
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!
Isn't there a limit on how quickly the difficulty can increase? Does anyone know what that limit is?
sr. member
Activity: 369
Merit: 250
June 19, 2012, 10:50:12 AM
#20
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here

Considering they will release more then one at once.  Global hashrate doubles, you'll make half your guess with 1TH/s.  1 week goes by (2016 blocks found) and difficulty increases astronomically.  Goodluck!
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 10:47:05 AM
#19
They will make a lot of money back during that short window, but no where near the cost of the device. I believe, by buying this equipment, we're all just shooting each other in the foot.

Why do you think people will not make their money back. If you are one of the first to the table (timing is crucial here I think) mining at 1TH/s should recoup your $30,000 pretty quick even if the reward is halved to 25 and the difficulty starts to ramp up. Like I said calculations may be wrong but it does seem like their is an opportunity here
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
June 19, 2012, 10:46:11 AM
#18
IMO they are just bluffing

Really? I thought you totally believed in this "press release".

Perhaps you thought wrong.

hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
June 19, 2012, 10:44:15 AM
#17
Yea cos Microsoft took over the world by releasing the cheapest product so they could 'own the market'.. oh wait..

But hey at least now Apple are the largest company in the world by releasing the leading next gen portables at bargain basement prices so they can 'own the market'.. oh wait..

/sarcasm off

Either:
1) these guys are straight up full of shit, or
2) they can't be trusted to run the company properly if they are posting prices like that on a game changing product, with such a massive demand in the market right now for such devices.

Take your pick.

PS: apologies for the tone of the first 2 lines of this reply, I couldn't resist  Grin

I'm not sure I can agree with your conclusions based solely on the information we have. Amazon sells kindles at a loss in order to capture the ebook market. I don't think any of us can say whether BFL are making a profit on the new gear at this point in the game. Exponential performance gains does not always mean a corresponding increase in prices.

Apple does sell on quality but almost every time they introduce a faster shinier model they slip it in at the same price point. I think the new gear from BFL is the start of a new watermark in price/performance for bitcoin mining.

It may be disappointing for those who have invested in GPU mining but such is the nature of a technology driven market.

Idiot, Amazon dont make money on selling hardware. They make money on services ....aka selling books thro Kindle.

Appl doesnt make money on your I-products... They make money on App Store.

BFL loves idiots like you.

/thread


There is no need to call me names  - I am trying to engage people in a thoughtful discussion.
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