Topic: Buttman's Analcoin | SHA256 | 150K POW | 125% Annual POS | Launched - page 12. (Read 19175 times)

Perhaps go with 8 hours which is not too long and not too short.

What will the min Stake age be in the hard fork?

jc12345 wrote:
Just a correction, 30 days is the max coin age after which the coins will lose eligibility for staking and have to be moved not min as you mention. It is the min coin age that needs to be agreed upon and 3 hours seems fair. What this means is that once coins are moved, it will be eligible for staking (mature) after 3 hours. Once it stakes, the coins will take another 3 hours to mature again before it gets into the staking queue. The current min coin age for Anal is 24 hours, meaning that once you move coins or once you get a stake, it will take 24 hours before the coins start to stake. The longer the min coin age the more people will keep their coins in their wallets and off the exchange in order to not lose their place in the staking "queue". If it is too long though with a too low reward, then people will just say stuff the staking and take their profit on the exchange. Alternatively a min coin age of 8 hours can be used which is also much better than 24 hours but not too short as to cause coins to be moved to exchanges too easily.  A min age of 30 days will not work as that menas one stake every 30 days which will stall the blockchain.

The options to chose for min coin age (min stake age) would therefore be 3 hours or 8 hours or keep it at the current 24 hours imo. Perhaps another vote.
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I would prefer a value between 3-12h. What do the others think?

Thanks to Vanity, who is the first who promised 0.1 btc contribution for the hard fork, but the whole community is invited to contribute - every satoshi counts
And Vanity, pls setup the btc adr. that the community can contribute. thanks

This post was inappropriate and posted during a time of personal and mental health issues, sorry.

Ha ha I have told them before, but they refuse to believe me I guess! Anyways, keep up the good work with this new thread and vision

You are correct kind sir! It's also on their Bitcointalk thread, that's funny I recall people calling it a 40% per calendar month stake, anyway what's 20% between friends lol
Thanks for pointing it out though

That is too high for now. Look at the graph above.

Just a technical side-point that drives me nuts sometimes. TEK is 500% annual rate It is all right there in their source code

But that doesn't stop you all from going 480%

Voting will end at midnight tonight so if you want to vote you should do today, then the winner will be the one with the highest votes.
Once that's done we will look to contact the original dev and look to get everything setup for a fork, it would be best if he was to give us his support rather than do it without support.

Yes, everyone is stuck. That is the whole point of the upcoming fork. Currently if you want the chain to move you have to send coins manually. If you send >10 coins to another address you will trigger the next POS block. The fork is needed to fix the stuff up that the original dev did when he released a broken wallet.

lol, this OP/Dev should get poster of the year given how funny/ironic this thread is, as are the replies
(not shilling here, no idea who the dude is, but it's funny as hell).
i'd invest some btc in you but i have non to invest.

Anyone else stuck at Block 50261 ?

This post was inappropriate and posted during a time of personal and mental health issues, sorry.

This post was inappropriate and posted during a time of personal and mental health issues, sorry.

are this cin copy from other that logo like aricoin
https://aricoin.org/

Just a correction, 30 days is the max coin age after which the coins will lose eligibility for staking and have to be moved not min as you mention. It is the min coin age that needs to be agreed upon and 3 hours seems fair. What this means is that once coins are moved, it will be eligible for staking (mature) after 3 hours. Once it stakes, the coins will take another 3 hours to mature again before it gets into the staking queue. The current min coin age for Anal is 24 hours, meaning that once you move coins or once you get a stake, it will take 24 hours before the coins start to stake. The longer the min coin age the more people will keep their coins in their wallets and off the exchange in order to not lose their place in the staking "queue". If it is too long though with a too low reward, then people will just say stuff the staking and take their profit on the exchange. Alternatively a min coin age of 8 hours can be used which is also much better than 24 hours but not too short as to cause coins to be moved to exchanges too easily.  A min age of 30 days will not work as that menas one stake every 30 days which will stall the blockchain.

The options to chose for min coin age (min stake age) would therefore be 3 hours or 8 hours or keep it at the current 24 hours imo. Perhaps another vote.

1st Round Voting Results

The voting has been locked with the following results;



The vote will now be reset and offer a selection between the top two results which confirms the findings of JC's analysis.

JC, excellent ANALysis of the POS vectors, calculations and graphical representations, really nice work and helps us picture the various ways forward.

Based on the information I have closed the vote and will re-open the vote between the two highest POS votes which are ;

100% (3 votes)
125% (3 votes)

I would recommend we select one of these and like JC recommend have a 30 day min stake so that it discourages dumps and fast move around of coins.
I would also recommend we simply implement a straight forward flat % POS with NO decline until we have sufficient funds to invest, in which case a further planned hard fork in 2 years would be sufficient to reduce and adjust the POS percentage to meet increased or reduced consumer demand.

I have 0.1 BTC available to put towards the initial hard fork, with a further commitment of 0.1 BTC from a further 4 people that would fulfil the round for the initial hard fork.

Thanks again JC for the work on coin supply, graphs and numbers, which does show the best curve for adoption is 100 - 125% as voted.

Here are analysis graphs of coin supply and inflation over a one year period for the options in the poll. The important thing to ask is what will the "thing" of the coin be. If it is quick profits, high inflation and short lifespan then the POS staking % must be high. If it is retail adoption, longer term profits, longevity and low inflation then the coin must have lower POS staking %.  The answer lies somewhere in the middle of these 2 extremes.

The POS staking % must be just enough to incentivise the miners to stake so that the blockchain remains secure and widely distributed. There must also be a match between adoption and total coin supply - it would be difficult for millions of people to use 100,000 coins for example, but it would take some time to get that sort of distribution. There must be just enough coins released into the market to match demand for use. I would recommend a 6 monthly monetary policy review of inflation, adoption rates and mining stats and do a fork with adapted specs accordingly to align to the market conditions. Coin halving in POW is a rudimentary automated attempt at this. With successful implementation, after 6-12 months there will be enough funds to hire the best devs to design spectacular wallets and implement whatever features and specs are required at the time to meet market conditions.

I think it is best to leave the high POS staking % to Spots and Co who are geared to R&D those types of chains and high coin supply. Too low and no-one will stake. Based on the graphs below I see the sweet spot and safest initial % being at 10% per month which is somewhere between 100-125% per annum. Both of these answers will therefore be ok whichever is the higher of the two in the vote.

The other important specs to decide on are the min and max coin age. Max coin age is easy and can be 30 days. Min is more difficult. Too low and it would be too easy to move coins around between wallets and exchanges with no incentive to keep it on any side, but it would help a lot to have lots of small stakes to keep the chain rolling smoothly. Too long and liquidity might be impacted as people will keep coins in their wallets but if lots of movement occur, there could be less distributed staking and fewer coins qualifying for staking to keep the chain rolling. I would recommend a lower min coin age of 3 hours to keep liquidity higher and to keep the options open. It might have a slight negative impact on inflation than the graphs below due to more smaller stakes happening and real compounding being stakely compounded.

All graphs assume starting coin supply of 141,195 and work on daily compounding. The more accurate method is stakely compounding but daily is ok for illustration purposes.

5% per annum / 0.41% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 148,413. Total coin supply after 2 years 156,022



10% per annum / 0.83% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 165,000. Total coin supply after 2 years 172,404



25% per annum / 2.08% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 181,158. Total coin supply after 2 years 232,592



50% per annum / 4.19% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 232,393. Total coin supply after 2 years 383,021



100% per annum / 8.55% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 382,236. Total coin supply after 2 years 1,037,606



125% per annum / 10.80% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 490,089. Total coin supply after 2 years 1,706,931



250% per annum / 22.73% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 1,693,907. Total coin supply after 2 years 20,460,888



480% per annum / 47.99% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 16,412,349. Total coin supply after 2 years 1,932,841,328



500% per annum / 50.41% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 19,982,242. Total coin supply after 2 years 2,866,671,797



1000% per annum / 124.98% per month. Total coin supply after 1 year 2,646,050,378. Total coin supply after 2 years 50,946,611,318,415



Potential implementation method of a POS % halving after an annual monetary policy review, assuming that was the decision taken for 4 years in a row. POS % starts at 125% per annum and is halved annually. It does not have to be halved but can just be reduced according to market conditions. Total coin supply after 1 year 490,089, after 2 years 915,902, after 3 years 1,250,651 and after 4 years 1,462,110.

480 has no chance of working without some stiff inflation controls (read coding and a real full time dev)

100 might be more realistic without heavy reworking of the code and still give an incentive to hold

Yes, that sounds good.