Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 246. (Read 123950 times)

We invest in Bitcoin and many use a variety of strategies. My strategy is that I split the hold into two sections. And the first hold is until the 2028-2032 halving (more likely longer if needed), and my second hold is for every halving bull run. I am thinking of keeping the hold which I have followed the DCA method till the year (2028-2032) of course. This is how I plan my investment strategy according to the road map.

You know no-one can be as good as you in cooking up this hypothetical but we do our best to understand you and it sure passes a lot of message, after reading through all your quote I started seeing what you were trying to explain and I noticed that you tried to keep the senerio equal for each of them, I maybe got a little confused or maybe trying to suggest something outside the context, but anyway I'm good now, I've understood you quite well.

Your very right, not everyone would be able to invest up to 10% of his income into bitcoin for different reasons and some cam be because they feel they need all their income for various other things, so yeah the guys in the hypothetical are already very unique for been able to invest up to that % of their income into any asset at all. IMO I think for anyone to be able to invest in bitcoin is not really a rocket science, everyone just needs to figure out what they can be able to invest into bitcoin and DCA makes it better you can invest at intervals that suite your income, not everyone must go up to 10% weekly and just like guy 1 although he wasn't too aggressive like other guys in the hypothetical he was able to still have a hood value in bitcoin over the years, so if anyone wants to invest we should try not to be too competitive with ourselves because in some way many of us here might have disclosed how much we have or are Currently allocating to bitcoin and end up wearing themselves trying to meet up, so in conclusion your hypothetical passes a lot of message on how we can stay in our own lane and do what we can.

I believe that such predictions like this are more realistic and thank you for modifying my predictions. However, no one knows the closest outcomes as time and time again will pass, when new people will begin to adopt Bitcoin. This will bring about an increase in demand leading to an increase in the price. And then the next bull run will go higher than the previous ATH. We can only assume that due to growing adoption and the decrease of supply due to the halving of the price new ATH will break.

Jay, do you know that there are a lot of people who believe such a price prediction could happen? (above 100k by 2024 and 1M before 2030) . Lots were expecting $100k by the end of the year. Anyway, that's enough price talk. Let's keep the conversation on how we can buy more and hold long-term. There will be much more upside for much less risk. Of course, the price will be higher or lower for years to come. Either way, bitcoin will do what it is known to do the best which is to outperform the market.

I feel like am a time traveler, very optimistic about Bitcoin.

70k pre-halving 2024

85k - 100k after 2024 halving

Maybe a new cycle bear around 45k low and 250kk at the top in 10 10-year journey.

I agree.  That is a lot.. .. and so if we can continue to get the free plans to work that would be preferred.

I think that for now the free plan can take care about what we need.

The plans are quite expensive

https://www.coingecko.com/en/api/pricing

The cheapest one is $ 129 per month.

I think it is more fittable for services different than ours. Maybe exchanges or something like that? Portals?

There can be a lot of reasons that each person chooses or does not choose to be aggressive or whimpy with the amount that he invests, and within those three examples, I was trying to describe  them as similarly in their incomes and also similarly in their age.. . ... so even though I described 1 as having 10% investments and 3 as having 15% investments, I was trying to describe number 2 as a potentially more relatable character who may well purposefully be ready, willing and able to be more aggressive in his investment as compared to the other two, and so to suggest that there are circumstances in which the more aggressive and/or organized person may well also be able to get quite a bit ahead of folks who got into bitcoin earlier than him - yet at the same time to suggest, that even if you start to do everything right and/or as correct as you are able to do them, it still might not be very easy or possible to catch up to similarly-situated people who got into bitcoin earlier than you... and maybe we should not overly stress ourselves about these kinds of matters, especially if we well might realize that it is likely better to be mostly competing with making ourselves better versions of ourselves rather than getting too worked up about what others are doing.... even though surely some of us are likely just competitive by nature and we either might not be able to help ourselves or we might have our own psychological issues that might not be easy to correct..and maybe we consider some of our drives to be features and not bugs in terms of our own characters.  

Just to attempt to make clear (and to emphasize), I tried to give the examples in terms of already showing their investment allocations to anything that they are investing into, so any amount that was not contained in the examples of 10%, 25% and 15% was presumptively for consumptive and/or expense purposes rather than investing/saving.. and there is also another kind of presumption that each of them have their emergency fund, reserves and float in place.. at least to sufficiently responsible levels.  So then both examples 1 and 3 discovered BTC 7 years ago and invested into BTC in a style that largely reflected their already chosen level of investment/savings aggressiveness.. 10% and 15% respectively, and so there is also a presumption that when the more aggressive investor (guy 2) only just finds out about BTC, that he is going to mostly be aggressive towards bitcoin and so he is a guy who is relatable towards finding out about bitcoin and then plugging it into his already aggressive investment approach and/or personality... so yeah, guy2 is meant to be a relatable kind of character in terms of how someone who finds out about bitcoin (and actually recognizes the asymmetric bet angle of bitcoin... including appreciating some aspects of it sound money fundamentals) might also become somewhat passionate about investing into bitcoin or choose to take an aggressive approach towards investing into bitcoin, rather than diddly-daddling around in terms of figuring out when to get started and not being sure and blah blah blah.


Well I am suggesting him to have had built his investment and having had invested $10k per year for 10 years and then receiving a somewhat standard return on that which would be around 50%, so after 10 years, his investment would be worth around $150k because some of his earlier invested amounts would have grown more and some of his later invested amounts would not have had as much time to grow.. so yeah, his total investment portfolio is right around $150k at the time that he learns about BTC... but it is still worth less than Guy1 and Guy3.. . .and when he decides to get into bitcoin, he may well not want to pull out and reallocate what he has in his overall investment into bitcoin, but instead to divert what he had been investing into traditional assets into bitcoin in order to at least aim towards reaching his bitcoin investment target.... So in some sense, I may well be inferring what a reasonably similarly situated guy might want to do...

I am not necessarily going to presume that his prior investment had matching funds (like a 401k might have), even though there could be certain kinds of things that had been going on with his prior investments that might contribute to his not necessarily wanting to discontinue to invest into the other investments, so he could be faced with a bit of a dilemma in regards to how aggressive he might be able to be in regards to his investing into bitcoin..  some employers might have matching amounts that go up to 5% of the salary.. or perhaps there would be tax deferral benefits, and I would suggest that there would be motivations to invest up to the amount of the employer's match, but not necessarily choose to invest up to the maximum tax deferral, even though surely some folks are going to get lured into tax deferral investments that currently, in the USA (for example) allows investing up to $23k per year into tax deferred products.. and so a lot of people will get distracted into taxed-deferred investing options (which is not bitcoin investing directly), which is another reason that the bitcoin spot ETFs in the USA can be so compelling for people who are able to contribute into those kinds of investments or if their Employer offers an investing program that includes the bitcoin spot ETFs as one of the available options... which may or may not be better than buying bitcoin directly, and if someone with ONLY $40k income is investing 25% of his income, he is still not even coming close to the federal maximum limitation of $23k per year.

I personally would not necessarily conclude or presume that guy2 has any readiness, willingness or ability to front load into bitcoin.. not based on the facts given and/or the fact that he has already built an investment portfolio or $150k.. Now if the facts were different, he might have some extra funds for front loading, but it surely is not presumed in the facts that I had given... especially since I am trying to describe and characterize guy 2 as a relatively conservative guy who may well be aggressive, but that does not mean that he is a gambler.. merely because he is already being aggressive and has already historically been aggressive in his investment with having had achieved investing $100k over 10 years.. and just on the face, guy2 invested way more than either guy1 or guy3 who invested $40k and $60k respectively over the last 10 years, and the ONLY reason that guy2's portfolio is not as good as the portfolios of guy1 or guy3 is because guy2 had been investing in traditional investments like index funds and ONLY just found out about BTC.


I am not suggesting that it is a good idea to liquidate assets. Smart people do not tend to do that.


You do not seem to understand Saylor.  Saylor is not liquidating assets.  Don't get mislead by dumbass mainstream media and bitcoin naysayer spins.

Saylor has been investing aggressively in bitcoin since late 2020 and Saylor is a bit of a psycho.. and he probably is not even a good model for normies to even attempt to follow..

Sure he is a good model in terms of his being both a bitcoin advocate, his being a very smart guy and also his using a variety of financial instruments to leverage several aspects of his company in order to buy more bitcoin which likely causes both BTC prices to go up and also his stock to go up so that he can engage in further leveraging of his company's stock.

He is playing a sophisticated game that is smart as fuck and normies cannot either play that game, and they do not even have those levels of resources..


So he has been aggressive as fuck with bitcoin from the beginning, and maybe his most reasonable buys were his first or second bitcoin buys (in around August 2020) where he merely took around 70% of the company's free cash reserves and put that into bitcoin, and there were also some of his buys around those earlier stages that were just buying bitcoin on a quarterly basis with whatever extra revenue that the company brought in.. . but he got more and more psycho in terms of both leverage and using debt instruments.. and surely those are smart as fuck moves, but they are not even close to the kinds of plays that normies should be attempting unless they have the kinds of cashflows and other assets that largely could service the various financial instruments and/or leverage plays.

One of the latest plays from Saylor that has been getting a lot of attention in recent times has been that he has been selling MSTR shares, and those are not shares that he already had, but instead those are shares that are getting issued to him from options that were set to expire from 2014.. and so he pretty much announced that he was going to be selling all of those options (which yeah they are shares) in the coming several months.. or at least since the beginning of 2024 and maybe it goes through mid 2024.. I am not sure by when he has to exercise all of the outstanding options.. .. so Saylor is not even diluting his current ownership of shares in the company.. but instead selling new shares that are getting issued to him and he is selling them as soon as they are issued to him. to buy personal bitcoin and that is not even MSTR bitcoin that he is buying with that, and he already had nearly 18k personal bitcoin that he had disclosed in around August 2020.. so he is adding to his personal BTC stash.. maybe another 10k or more BTC through various ongoing issuance of new shares that he sells to buy BTC.

So don't be presuming any additional facts regarding what guy2 should be doing as a normie in terms of turning him into some kind of a gambler, risk taker and/or even someone who is moving around his investment, because smart normal (generally risk-averse) people do not engage in those kinds of behaviors, and the mere fact that guy2 is an aggressive investor who invests 25% of his income does not mean that he is going to fuck around with moving his already invested assets around merely because he is wanting to refocus his future investments into bitcoin.. and yeah, through guy2, I did not describe any guy that would have had been in any kind of real and/or meaningful position to front load into bitcoin, even though surely anyone is free to be more aggressive than guy2, but you seem to be changing the scenario if you presume that guy2 should be moving investments around in order to front load into bitcoin...


By the way, we could describe a scenario in which each of the three guys were to receive an unexpected $12k job bonus or maybe some kind of windfall from the sales of a house, or an inheritance or something like that, so then if these guys end up having some unexpected extra cash (such as $12k), then they could make choices to use that cash in ways to front load into bitcoin or to stick to some variation of their earlier personalities that was already described.. so I would suggest that Guy1 might ONLY take around 33% of his lump sum and invest it into bitcoin, and maybe guy3 would invest 66% and maybe guy3 might invest 85% or more into bitcoin.. and my assumptions would be based on my already attempts to describe them in terms of their levels of aggressiveness.. but I did not describe (or mean to suggest) any of them as being gamblers or excessive risk takers.  .


You are seeming to be fighting with the hypothetical.  Do you really believe that it is reasonable or feasible to be suggesting that normal people who are already pretty damned aggressive (investing/saving 25% of your income is already pretty damned aggressive) that these guys should be even more aggressive than they are already being.  That hardly makes sense..

Of course, there are guys who work on their skills and their prospects to increase their income or to cut their expenses, and yeah we could have those kinds of behaviors that are going on with guy2 that would end up both distinguishing him from guy1 and guy3, but also such behaviors turn him into a different person than I was attempting to describe in the hypothetical.. so in some sense if you are giving him all these extra attributes, you are creating a new character, which surely is fine, since we can be whoever we want, but if we are attempting to make some kind of a comparison to similarly situated individuals, we should be attempting to describe their situations in similar ways and not creating way too many variables that then screw up the comparisons.


Ok... at least you seem to be recognizing some of the balancing that has to go on, and sure any of us can be attempting to improve our conditions and even go beyond what is expected regarding some of the limitations that we might currently have or be expected to have, but even if we might want to learn some new skills to improve our income, or to get a promotion or to enter into some more lucrative kinds of employment (or business), it still sometimes can take time to actually experience the result of the increased income that might give us more discretionary income to buy bitcoin.


The fact of the matter is that anyone in their early 20s who had been investing/saving 10% to 15% of his income into anything is still a pretty damned unique kind of a person, since so many people do not save or invest, and especially they do not necessarily start in their early 20s... so a guy in his early 30s who had already been investing for 10years is already somewhat unusual, but surely such a person is not beyond the aspirations that could be available to almost anyone who is able to start to get employment that allows him to generate some disposable/discretionary income.  Frequently it can be difficult for normies in their early 20s to even get gainful employment and surely sometimes there may be needs to learn job skills or to improve education that might not result in any kind of meaningful income and sometimes even the programs to gain job/employment skills may well end up costing money and/or time consuming without pay.. but it still might be the smarter way to go, even if income might suck for guys in their early 20s.


There surely are balances that need to be struck, and sometimes it can be quite difficult to even invest more than 10% of your income, so each of us has to figure out how much we are able to do, that might also involve tradeoffs that we make in terms of gaining job skills and/or experiences that might contribute to our abilities to earn more later down the road...so yeah, it seems that you overall understood these comparative matters, even though you seemed to be fighting with the hypothetical in several areas, too.


I agree with you MusaPk. .sometimes it might be worth it to get some kind of a reliable service, especially since the tool that bitmover made has ended up being quite powerful for those who have figured out some uses for it.. and it might not even be very available in other places on the web.... at least not so far.. even though I am pretty sure that bitmover and I are tending towards promoting and advocating open-sourcedness.  

So yeah there might be some utility in seeking out free services, yet at the same time, there might be some preferences to just bite the bullet.. and subscribe to something reliable.. but yeah, I don't claim to be any kind of an expert and even some of the paid services might have their own trickiness and/or their questionable value-add aspects.


There is also the concept of front-loading that could fit within a kind of style for those three as well, and there is also aggressive versus whimpy which surely fall upon a sliding scale in which we might not all agree regarding which is which.


Sure... you seem to be referring to the hypos that are listed in post 2 of my investment ideas thread, and even those hypos might not describe all of the possibilities, even though they were initially outlined to show how the passage of time might cause difficulties for later entrants to bitcoin to be able to catch up to earlier entrants .. and yeah sometimes we can compare our present self to some variation of what we could have had been, yet going forward, we still end up having to try to tailorize what we are going to do towards are own individual variables.. which also would hopefully include some changing dynamics that would attempt to account for how many BTC we might have already been able to accumulate, and if we might be considering if we might be getting close to reaching our BTC accumulation goals (which likely is valuable to attempt to measure value in terms of the 200-WMA, even though we might also start to consider some maintenance strategies that will relate to how far BTC spot prices are away from the 200-WMA and in which direction, which you seemed to have had already acknowledged).


Yeah.. too bad about the delay... . and I have decent confidence that bitmover is going to figure out some reasonable path forward... I have gotten into using the tool almost daily, too.. especially if I am responding to posts in which some of various topics could come up related to valuation of holdings and/or even considering where BTC prices are now as compared to where they had been historically.

Edit:  O..k.. I see that bitmover responded to these messages and the tool is back online.  .GREAT!!!!.


Fuck shitcoins.  We are talking about bitcoin in this thread... so don't be trying to equate shitcoins to bitcoin because that is either dumb, ambiguous, misleading and/or malicious.


I am not really sure what you mean here.. just referring to opportunities in "crypto" or do you have any ideas that might somehow relate to bitcoin.


Sure.. Yes... I mostly agree with this point as long as you are talking about bitcoin and not mixing in the idea of shitcoins, which you already did such ambiguous mixing above, which could make it a bit unclear about what you mean..

Hey, I was able to continue using coingecko API. Website is working again. I will give more details about how I managed to do it in the Withdrawal Strategy ANN

Website is working again!
https://bitcoindata.science/withdrawal-strategy

Cheers!

One of the main things on why Bitcoin or simply crypto space did make out such noise is that it do really gives out that kind of opportunity or chances on which you couldnt really be able to see in fiat
on which i do highly totally agree on what you have said. This is why this market did get so much attention due into this kind of opportunity but of course this isnt something that you could see in other markets
on which it would be something that you could really be that able to tell the difference when it comes to volatility in overall on which this is something that you cant really be able to make yourself
that want to missed out these opportunities and chances.

Speaking about Buy the dip and hold then this would really be just that good into those people who are really that deciding on making some holding for long term and not into those
traders who are really that tending to have a dealing in a short term period.

How much coingecko is asking for there paid plan? We can contribute since we using and getting benefit from this tool.

Good luck bitmover. Looking forward for the fix. It's a good tool and fun to play with.  



Fair enough.
We have seen 3 ways of gathering Bitcoins so far in this thread DCA, Lump Sum and buy on the dip. Moreover there are hypo's also available that can give you fair idea about where you are standing in term of Bitcoin accumulation.


It is blessing for anyone who is in accumulation phase and find out that Bitcoin price is close to 200-WMA. This point is discussed and there is consent that first goal is to accumlate Bitcoins to get in recommended hypo's.



Seems like coingecko need some bucks for there plan.

Knowing all these you have said and going by them all, we could see that bitcoin present us with a financial opportunity in which we couldn't have it kind over years in fiat, but for only those who recognizes how they could partake of these advantages will adopt bitcoin, invest and hodl, because its one of the means to financial liberty, those who are early investors could tell and we can as well see from the history on what it has laid down on every investors in it, we just have to locate in the aspect we are more interested with and come in with this decentralized digital currency in other for us to see the change desired in our financial economy, in bitcoin network, knowledge first before the money we want to have in it could comes in.

If you want to be successful, you must be willing to sacrifice and also manage yourself despite the odds against it especially when it comes to Bitcoin investment. They are people who earn very big but they still find it very hard to actually save up or plan through an investment with Bitcoin and this is because of the lack of discipline while they are other's who don't even earn up to that amount but yet still found a way to make good use of it and this is why I told a friend of mine that making it through an investment is not solely based on the amount of money you earn but also on how discipline and responsible you are to follow through with your particular method.

Dca strategy being the best is something I don't understand, dca strategy is used to accumulate bitcoin irrespective of your status, even with the dca strategy an investor can still not make progress if he/she fails to make proper planning. Using the dca strategy doesn't mean you have to use a little amount to accumulate but tho if your income allows that then it can't be compulsory. In my opinion using the dca strategy doesn't mean you don't have access to increase your accumulation but it just give room for a proper planning monthly or weekly when you have the access to calculate your emergency funds, personal needs, etc before going ahead to buy. For example the amount I used at first is not the same with my present amount cause I increase gradually. Dca strategy has nothing to do with poor or accumulate with little amount.

If you continue to collect Bitcoin for investment purposes, this is no different from investors who continue to convert their capital into Bitcoin. Because in reality we all know that Bitcoin really has great benefits and can also change everyone's lives for the better. So you have actually done something good and will also be quite useful for yourself through your efforts and it will be much more useful if the people in your current environment also want to follow the steps you have implemented now. Because this year is a very good year to continue to utilize capital into Bitcoin at the level of our respective abilities.

Retail investors like us can certainly take a lot of inspiration from multi-investment companies like BlackRock.But Bitcoin does not guarantee that you will become richer because the investment is based on your capital in and your own view. You didn't mention which method you use to invest in Bitcoin. If you invest for long term you can start with DCA method. If you choose this method, you remain sure that you can bring the low risk to your investment. It should be noted that Bitcoin does not make you rich overnight. Another thing to consider for you is that you can use your capital to meet your goals by buying Bitcoin by dips, although it's a larger investments. But in all investments you will have risk, it should be kept in your consideration.

you both are obviously on the same school of thought and like @sim_card had rightly put it, you don't necessarily need several streams of income before you can effectively stack up your Bitcoin using the DCA methord. Regardless of how regular or irregular your income comes in, iether it's through your regular salary or the profit from your business, with adequate plan on ground, you will be able to carry out your DCA stacking at ease.

If you're facing deficulty following up on your DCA routine with a single stream of income, chances are that even if you have multiple streams of income you might still face similar cross road. Discipline starts from little and grows when you're bestowed with much finance. Certainly, if you have double streams of income it will be to your advantage as you can easily increase on your set out amount for each stacking and if you so desire, you can decide that the profit from one source of your income will all go into accumulating Bitcoin and if it works well for you, it could be one of the fastest way to reach your accumulation goal but having several sources of income doesn't in itself translet to being able to accumulate more or effectively carry out a DCA routine. And again, having a weekly or monthly DCA plan doesn't necessarily mean you must always buy on a set day. If your source of income comes as smooth as possible and can allow that, then that's going to be a perfect way to discipline yourself if you so decide to buy at said day or date of the week but if your income doesn't follow a regular pattern, it's not necessary to inconvenience yourself or even think on borrowing just so you can meet up with the set out date, if you do so, it will technically mean that you've become enslaved to your investment. so, there might be times when you might not be able to buy as at when planed expecially for newbies that aren't financially strong or guys that are working in firms that owe workers thier salary but later pay after a while. The main thing is to be discipline enough to always buy once you've been paid and always treat the money you've set out for your investment purpose as if it's no longer your own so you don't get tempted to skip a particular month or week because your salary comes in late.

That can be misleading, irrespective of that fact that the dca strategy plays a very vital role in Bitcoin long term investment of which it's benefits are too numerous to mention, the reason why it dominates the thread, it will be very wrong to proclaim that the dca strategy is the only best method,  yes undoubtedly dca is a very good strategy when it comes to Bitcoin long term investment. But however, if only you have been reading most of our previous pages you would have find out that this argument of which is the best strategy has been summarized in such a way that every investor must make an informed decisions as regards to the choice of strategies that will suits him or her in terms of

   Financial situations

   Investment goals and objectives

   Risk tolerance level

This are what should be considered when making choice of strategies to be employed during your accumulation process.

We have talked about the lump sum, the dca, and buying the dip and they are all talking about how to maximize every opportunity and buy as much as possible you can and hodl for as long as achieving your investment goals and objectives and this should be your most concern and not trying to make any comparison of which is the best. The dca allows you to make purchases with fixed amount of money at different intervals irrespective of the price point, and can make a lump sum buy or buy wholesomely when there is a dip,  all the strategies are very important based on how it suits and how  you were able to utilize them as an investor.
I just hope this will make sense to you.

They are a big company that has unlimited money. They have become a role model for many people because of their attitude towards investing in Bitcoin. Bitcoin will make us rich and we can buy things that may be difficult for us to buy at the moment but by investing in bitcoin we can achieve our dreams in the years to come. We are all beginners who want to change our lives by investing in Bitcoin.

Maybe it's true that that won't happen in the near future because the investment we make is smaller compared to Blackrock, but in this case we have the same goal, namely buying and holding.

The biggest losses that occur today are for those who keep selling and there is no inner perseverance in them to hold it in the long run. Holding fiat is meaningless because its value will continue to decline due to inflation, Bitcoin has changed this path because its limited supply will make us rich in the decades to come.

We found ourselves currently accumulating bitcoins with small amounts of money only since joining this topic. As much as possible we are trying to accumulate enough bitcoins, feel useful from the day we start accumulating bitcoins. Only DCA method is the best method to invest, there are many big investors who can convert their capitals into Bitcoin.

Having a secure source of income is of particular importance for sustaining the DCAing process. Once you start a project, if you don't keep it going, it will die. Irregular flow of salary is a big problem in employment whether it is government or private.If you don't get paid on time, your DCAing routine can become uncoordinated. In this case you can start again after some time (Pause) interval where no one is exerting some force on you. When you have enough you fill in the blanks.This is your freedom and getting your profit into long term DCAing.